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FORUM / RUGBY /  One of the myths of rugby....

One of the myths of rugby....

Started by Mozart13 REPLIES563 VIEWS· 30 Nov 2015, 16:50
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2015, 16:50
#1
30 Nov 2015, 16:50#1
....that I read again in connection with Jonah Lomu's passing, has James Small as the player who stopped Lomu in the 1995 WC final. I can't remember Small making one successful tackle on Lomu, his direct opponent. I do, however, remember Japie Mulder dive tackling him out along the sideline. And poignantly, the tackle that changed everything was Joost taking him down head on, at pace, when there was reasonable doubt as to whether that was even possible.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
30 Nov 2015, 21:04
#2
30 Nov 2015, 21:04#2
Small was never a great tackler. He may perhaps have slowed Lomu down a time or two with a jersey grab or riding the fend, but I don't recall any tackles either.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2015, 07:59
#3
01 Dec 2015, 07:59#3
 Mozart
How many times was the ball in the final passed to Lomu?  As far as I can remember the ball was passed to Lomu time and time again - and Small made no tackles on him according to you and Pakie?   
Even the commentator from memory of the broadcast made mention of the hurry of the AB's to get the ball to Lomu all the time.   So who made all the tackles on him all the time?   
Get the feeling this is just another one or two incident situation which y ou remember forgetting what happened during the rest of the game.     
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
01 Dec 2015, 15:45
#4
01 Dec 2015, 15:45#4
As usual Mike, rather check the facts before running your mouth. Here is the total of Small's interactions with Lomu in the entire 100 minutes of the final:
1.  Lomu breaks through the middle, Small rips the ball from him in a tackle assist

2. In the only game situation where Small faced Lomu at full pace one on one, Lomu beats him easily. Fortunately play is called back because Little's pass to Lomu was forward. 


3. Small traps a static Lomu in possession - Lomu holds him at arm's length and offloads
4. Lomu drops a pass, turns around to regather. Small grabs him by the jersey, halting his progress. Lomu offloads to Kronfeld.
In contrast, actual proper and critical tackles on Lomu in full flight include: 
Joost (3)KrugerWilliamsStrydomMulder
Joost actually made three successful head-on tackles on Lomu through the course of the game.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
01 Dec 2015, 15:57
#5
01 Dec 2015, 15:57#5
Also, it was noticeable that, despite an effort to bring Lomu into play by the All Blacks (often through the middle instead of out wide), Glen Osborne saw a lot of attacking ball as well, and was much more dangerous and effective than Lomu. 
Also interesting was how close the All Blacks came to winning this in regular time - 3 minutes from full time Mehrtens misses a sitter of a drop goal from right in front, 25m out.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
01 Dec 2015, 16:16
#6
01 Dec 2015, 16:16#6
 
I can't recall a single successful tackle made by Small on Lomu while in full flight.

I can remember him being shrugged off though and Small throwing up his hands in complaint.


PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
01 Dec 2015, 16:25
#7
01 Dec 2015, 16:25#7
Small didn't do much of anything all game. Kronfeld also ran over him. Anyone who watched Small play would know he wasn't much of a tackler. A jersey and collar-grabber, yes. Tackler, no.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2015, 19:51
#8
01 Dec 2015, 19:51#8
Pakie
I did not say that Small made his tackles.  What i wrote is the following:-
 "Even the commentator from memory of the broadcast made mention of the hurry of the AB's to get the ball to Lomu all the time.   So who made all the tackles on him all the time? "
Do you know what a question mark at the end of the sentence mean?  It represent a question and you provided the info, which I appreciate - so your comment about me needing to check the facts were uncalled for.
However, of what value is the whole statement at this stage more than 20 years after the game?      
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
01 Dec 2015, 20:12
#9
01 Dec 2015, 20:12#9
You also said "and Small made no tackles on him according to you and Pakie?", which directly questions the validity of what we said and makes it sound like you disagree. But okay, I admit I'm automatically a little combative when it comes to you, so I apologize if I misread your intent and if my tone was uncalled for.
The truth is always worth defending, no matter how many years after the fact. I too have seen at least one article heaping the credit for containing Lomu on Small, for no reason other than he was Lomu's direct opponent. That's just lazy reporting that ignores what actually took place on the field, and does a disservice to the contributions of people like Joost and Mulder.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Dec 2015, 06:32
#10
02 Dec 2015, 06:32#10
Once again Mike your propensity to imagine things has landed you into trouble. Your Mr Contrary act is tiresome.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
02 Dec 2015, 19:06
#11
02 Dec 2015, 19:06#11
 

There are far too many inaccurate presumptions made when it comes to many sports, in particular with rugby.

 

The presumption that Smal stopped Jonah just because he opposed him is a classic case.

 

Same can be said of the presumption that the Argie scrum is a dominant force, or conversely that the Aussies cant scrum.

 

What of the presumption that SA sides are bigger than their opponents, all brawn no brains

 

That a prop cant scrum because the ref makes the 50/50 call that he is hinging, or slipping his bind when his opponent is doing exactly the same thing.

 

That a centre cant tackle because he misses a vital tackle, thereby having that one miss define him as a defender.

 

That a keeper can’t keep because he misses a run out opportunity because of a misdirected throw in.

 

That a centre can’t beat his man on the outside, because a pattern dictates that he has to take contact and set it up instead. That same centre having demonstrated the outside break in another team. Does said player suddenly lose that skill set?

 

That a 38 year old lock, because he was once great, still has the ability to play at the highest level

 

That a 9 can’t execute a box kick because he happened to be charged down once or twice or that he can’t pass because he happened to throw a few bad passes in shocking weather conditions.

 

That a 10 that used to be weak in the tackle cant evolve and solve the weakness

 

Too often players are defined by an incident or two and that definition sticks with them – its short sighted…..same applies to sides as a whole. Players and teams evolve and no player should ever be defined by a missed tackle, poor pass, kick or failure to make the right decision. Players are human, they make mistakes…..it would be a boring game if they we all perfect. Players should be defined over time and as a whole.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Dec 2015, 21:43
#12
02 Dec 2015, 21:43#12
A run out opportunity off a perfectly decent throw that materially impacted our WC semi chances. Funny stuff Dave....but why no JJ. Don't tell me you now no longer believe he can come back and be the greatest Bok 13 of the open era.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Dec 2015, 01:14
#13
03 Dec 2015, 01:14#13
Moz it would all help if you did not lie.....perfectly decent throw was it? Wow you must have been a special cricketer in your time......bwhaaahaaaa
JJ had nothing to do with my post......who ever said JJ was the best 13 of the open era, whatever that is......try not lie AGAIN
But then again you seem to be the very fool who wants to define a keeper by one miss......a very excusable miss at that......narrow mindedness of the highest order
If the shoe fits!!
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Dec 2015, 02:59
#14
03 Dec 2015, 02:59#14
At least the Boks did a much better job at stopping him scoring that the Underwood brothers did. Remember Jonah waiting under a high ball, Mr Underwood in full flight and horizontal as Jonah catches it, bounces off his leg...embarrassment, try.
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