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Orie selection - I’m starting to lose faith

Started by Saffolk 10 REPLIES4,308 VIEWS· 26 Jul 2023, 21:45
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Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Jul 2023, 21:45
#1
26 Jul 2023, 21:45#1
That will be music to the ears of the anti Rassie brigade:) If we were using the RC to give players a run then we have done a piss poor job of it. But before considering this, the make up of the squad is also questionable Firstly at fullback, we have Willie who rightly so is our incumbent but who is his backup? We know what Willie has to offer so why is he starting every test? If Willemse is the backup then why has he not been given at least one start at 15. In terms of squad selection we have completely missed a trick in not including Gelant as Willie’s backup, he is the closest we have to Willie in his ability to pause, sum up and create for those around him. At centre we have de Allende and Am as our incumbents and rightly so. We have Esterhuizen as our backup 12, who did a great job against Oz. We know what DA has to offer so why on earth is Esterhuizen not starting against the Argies? Test match rugby requires game time to settle and feel comfortable at that level, something Esterhuizen has never been afforded, so leading up the the WC, why not do just that, give him game time. I fully appreciate the importance of DA and his role in the side, but Esterhuizen is equipped to do exactly the same so why not afford him more game time. Then of course there is the option of Willemse at 12, his best position but Rassie seems reluctant to play him there - I suspect because he is a different kind of 12, he seeks to step and attack space - not the Bok game plan. Kriel is Am’s backup but since being relegated to backup his influence has become negligible and I understand why as he finds himself living off test scraps. Test incumbents play with the freedom of security to express themselves, safe in the knowledge their spot is secure. Game time affords you comfort. Kriel no longer plays with this freedom and comfort and it shows in his robotic performances. For this reason it would have made far more sense investing in a different backup to Am. At provincial level we have had no investment in a young 13, so my call would have been Janse v Rensburg who looked good at 13 for the Sharks. At flyhalf we see the continued misplaced faith in Willemse, who is just not equipped for the role. Has Rassie learnt nothing from the Stormers model? Libbok was great for the Stormers and good against Oz - why not back him and give him the start there against the AB’s. With Pollards involvement looking 50/50 then why not give Jantjies some game time to get back into the fold as he might be needed come the WC. At prop we have had Kitshoff and Malherbe start every game, what’s the point of that? We know what they have to offer and some. Sure we had Ox drop out but then have a look at someone else. They brought in the impressive Gerhard Steenkamp only to never use him. It was the perfect opportunity to cap him against the Argies off the bench. With Thomas having played the last few seasons at tighthead for the Sharks, why does Rassie keep playing him at loosehead? Why not give him a start at 3 against the Argies? Why does Koch never get a start? Why is Koch or Nyakane preferred over Wilco Louw? It makes no sense. If Dweba is our third hooker and lacking test time then why not give him more time on the field? At lock we bring in Jean Kleyn who has a good debut against Oz only to not feature again - what’s the point? Instead we see tte utterly useless and physically challenged Orie given 2 starts. How the fuck is this guy playing test rugby? Great to see RG back but why is he not starting against the Argies. Please don’t tell me Rassie is stupid enough to define him as a sub player only. Why is the physical and athletic Jason Jenkins not part of the squad? Kleyn is good but Jenkins is better. Jenkins is a far better player than Orie or Mostert Has Rassie learnt nothing when it comes to Mostert and his lack of physicality? Mostert replaced the injured PSDT at 7 in the Lions series only to be dropped for Kwagga (hardly a blindside) as he was so physically ineffective. Clearly Rassie has learnt fuck all as once again we saw Mostert at 7 against the physical Kiwi side - what a stupid selection. JL du Preez gets a squad call up only to get no game time - why the fuck not? He is far more physical than Mostert so why not give him a run against Oz or the Argies? Rassie is completely missing the boat with the generational talent that is Roos, instead we see faith in old man Vermeulen who is doing what exactly? The guy is a shadow of himself There are just too many poor squad selections and team selections for my liking this RC. We started well against Oz and instead of picking our best starting 15 against NZ we fucked that up resulting in the need to be less experimental against the Argies - which begs the question, what the fuck is Orie doing starting against the Argies Catch a fucking wake up Rassie I’m starting to lose faith in you
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
26 Jul 2023, 22:38
#2
26 Jul 2023, 22:38#2
I have the feeling that Rassie is not sure himself what to do….he is desperately trying to find something new and grabbing on to old ideas as there is no new ones…..how else can you explain this outrageously Dumb behaviour in his decision making??? R&N is Spinning and there is not much hope of stopping soon ….my opinion still is they rate there chances maybe 50/50 with there Squad, stupid player selections and don’t forget there asinine Game plan… the rest is a last hooray for Grandpa players, and Coaches.
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
27 Jul 2023, 06:11
#3
27 Jul 2023, 06:11#3

He never did know what to do. To only begin to lose faith is a bit late. Where the heck have you been? 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Jul 2023, 06:35
#4
27 Jul 2023, 06:35#4

Trouble is Rassie is so far ahead of you armchair critics you have no clue what he is up to. 

Some of the problem like Orie arise because of Govt interference. Until merit only is adopted it's unlikely any Bok squad will be our best.

Personally I think we will have a good squad and our match 22 will be great. There will be some substandard players selected due to quotas and some you don't agree with. Enough no doubt to keep the oaks wailing away for weeks.

We saw exactly the same happen before the last World cup. Rassie had no clue. 

Astonishing after we had had won the RWC we saw the Mozzzzquito and Deus trashing the Coach, the team and of course DuTojt and Allende. They have not ceased their undermining ever since then.

Be assured should we win the RWC again they will be wailing away. Best ignore these chronic moaners.

Bye the way oaks also just remember we have no automatic right to win the RWC every time. There are some very good si des you have to beat. If of course we do beat any of those sides it's because they played poorly, were under strength etc.

I seen it all before and know how these folk roll. Bwahahahaha. 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
27 Jul 2023, 08:34
#5
27 Jul 2023, 08:34#5

It is simple, PRESSURE. 

At international level teams have months or even years when it comes to the World Cup to prepare against you and how to play you. Japan ring a bell. 

You should also go and listen to Ollie (Cheddar Melt Special) le Roux about his time with all the different coaches. All of them buckled under pressure. No matter how smart they are or innovative. Nick Mallet in his own words confessed that he felt the pressure and lost the plot. There is the famous fall out between Mallet and Mark Andrews, Andrews wanted to kill Nick Mallet. I just don't think we have the coaches that can handle professional players and still treat them like school children, *cough* Jake White, Sbu Nkosi to name a few. 

Rassie has done well in that department, but he has created a lot of strife for himself. Outburst about the refs, I was 100% behind on that, but then he couldn't help himself and removed himself from the games to leave it to Stick and Nienaber that never played at the highest and doesn't understand what players are going through on field. 

The game plan has become stale, they are caught between two philosophies. You can see it on the field, players are confused. Listen to Swys, Nienaber is hell bent on protecting his defensive patters. Swys pointed out that they are so obsessed with rushing that if you stand deep enough you can get around them. Then also listen to Squidgy rugby, how they manipulated the boks rush and spread the ball side to side 4 times in 20 seconds, only then to target Flab Malherbe knowing that he'll end up in the centres. Remember Kitch Christies basic philosophy, getting forwards to run agains backs and backs against forwards. 

The bok brain trust, the Rassie was so eager to please the government, that he now has Stick and Davids. I don't see a foreign coach there anymore that can bring in new life. New Zealand got rid of Plumtree and fee. Now their new attack and defence coach had mad a massive difference in the way they play. Yet, we signed those two clown until the next World Cup year. We know stick is not an attack coach. There are so many great coaches out there. I would almost have said, give the bloody job to Eddie Jones, he knew how to get the best out of the boks and we saw what an impact he had in 2007. He got the boks to play we wanted them to. 

Now we are stuck with a stale game plan, stubborn selection policies based on race or whether you've played under Rassie long enough which should be about 2 years before you even get a sniff of the bok jumper and a team that every reff hates. 

63% is not acceptable in my book when the top coaches that we see today for France and Ireland are above 70%, even Eddie Jones were above 70% after 6 years with England. 

Rassie will now be with the boks for another 2 years and hoping the world would forgive him so that he can go find another coaching gig and not fall on the pile of successful has been coaches like we see today. 

Rassie needs to start winning every single game and fast, stop messing around, but he hasn't looked after all of SA Rugby like he should have. We see that from the Junior boks getting hammered. He has neglected his duties for his own ego. 

Yes, he is genius but have now run out of tricks

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
27 Jul 2023, 14:03
#6
27 Jul 2023, 14:03#6
Seeing our best guys being outplayed by the AB, tells me that our Coaching Crew is not coaching well enough to keep up with the top sides…for the last 5 years we have not seen much variation in our style of play….which makes us more transparent and easy to read and results in defeat…
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
27 Jul 2023, 14:25
#7
27 Jul 2023, 14:25#7

Mpower, too late now for any changes, but I said long ago that Stick does not fit in as a coach and Swys de Bruyn would have been a much better coach.

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
27 Jul 2023, 14:48
#8
27 Jul 2023, 14:48#8
Yes Blikkies, we have them now and for the Foreseeable Future….But Is the Government’s influence so much, that Rassie is not allowed to hire a Backline Consultant for WC? It can’t hurt to bring Fresh Backline plays into the mix….a guy like Swys would be Perfect, but he was discarded for his Attack Mindset.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
27 Jul 2023, 15:40
#9
27 Jul 2023, 15:40#9

Some of the problem like Orie arise because of Govt interference.

Yeah, too bad that government does not intervene to deal with the serious maths problem plaguing SA.

Way too many people are convinced a quota policy is in action.

In Vietnam, first graders would deal with the issue easily.

But the commies were in charge in Vietnam and just when they were in China, dealt with the education problem.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
27 Jul 2023, 15:43
#10
27 Jul 2023, 15:43#10

but I said long ago that Stick does not fit in as a coach and Swys de Bruyn would have been a much better coach.

As if the trashing SA rugby received from NZ exposed attack shortcomings only.

The trashing exposed players globally.

SA rugby were exposed as unable to play rugby. SA rugby players can not play rugby, they only focus on negating the opponent's efforts to play rugby.

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
27 Jul 2023, 16:33
#11
27 Jul 2023, 16:33#11

"but I said long ago that Stick does not fit in as a coach and Swys de Bruyn would have been a much better coach."

We don't know what Stick can do, as everything is heavily shaped by Erasputin, just as we saw with Coetzee. 

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