Our Test Quality Players....ranked

This is my simple ranking of our players. If a player doesn't appear here, it means he is either not yet ready for test rugby, or he doesn't have the potential to impact at test level, even though he may be a perfectly serviceable Super player. Steph du Toit is an example of the former.....Wynand Olivier an example of the latter. I select players only in their highest potential position, even though Lambie , for example, is qualified at fullback and flyhalf.

15. 1 Frans Steyn.....2 Kirchner ... 3 Taute

14. 1 JP Pietersen.... 2 Hougaard.....3 van den Heever.

13. 1 Juan de Jongh....2 Jordaan

12 1 Jean

11. 1 Habana.....

10. 1 Lambie.....2. Goosen....3  Morne

9.  1 Pienaar

8.  1 Vermeulen....2 Kankowski

7. 1 Alberts...2 Coetzee

6. 1 Louw....2 Brussouw

5. 1 Bekker....2 Kruger

4. 1 Etzebeth 

3. 1 Jannie

2.  1 Bismarck.....2 Strauss

1. 1 The Beast.....2 Steenkamp.

Injured and unavailable players like Schalk and F du Preez could come back into the picture for a year or two. But it's questionable.

So we have lots of vulnerabilities. Team potential drops hugely if we lose Jean, Pienaar, Jannie or Etzebeth. Simply because there really aren't test calibre players ready to replace them. That's why retaining Jean as captain is such an easy decision. Most concerning is tighthead, because the lack can destroy a team......and surprisingly scrumhalf, where Pienaar can inexplicably produce a shocker when least expected.

Contrary to the accepted view, the cupboard is half empty. Even though we have many effective S15 players.....the step up mentally and physically to test rugby, negates the majority of these players. Bok rugby has always depended on a very few, it remains the case today.

What a load of crap - clear indication of a man completely out of tune with SA players and possibly worse than Meyer in terms of the investment of the old. Got to love the call on all these young players he discards having not been tested at test level yet.

This is the real picture:

15. Lambie / Taute / Kirchner

14/11. JP / Habana / Rhule / Mvovo / Mapoe / v/d Heever / Jordaan

13. Taute / JJ / JP / Jordaan / Howard / JP du Plessis

12. Frans / Whitehead / Venter / Serfontein

10. Goosen / Lambie / Jantjies

9. Hougaard / Pienaar / Reinach / v/Zyl

1. Beast / Coenie / Kitshoff / M.v/d Merwe

2. Bismark / Strauss / Chiliboy / Brits / Fourie

3. Jannie / Coenie / Malherbe / M. v/d Merwe / Mujati

4/5. Etzebeth / Bekker / Steph du Toit / Bresler / JA Marais / Willemse / Roux

6/7/8. Louw / Alberts / Vermeulen / CJ Stander / A. Botha / Brussouw / Coetzee / Daniel / Kolisi / Elstadt

So you think a side like this is ready for test rugby:

Taute

Mapoe

Howard

Serfontein

Jantjies

Reinach

Vd Merwe

Brits

Coenie

Steph

Marais

Kolisi

Botha

Daniel

Seriously? That side would have lost by 50 points on Saturday.

Mozart

Where did you get the above ratings?   I am curious because some of the ratings are really interesting - whilst others are crap.

I think that Saffex obviously hd a seizrue abou that one:-

Full back

Ir is interesting to note that the firsy choice is Fracois Steyn - he has not played in that position since 2007 - how did they get to that one.   I gave my reservarions about Steyn at 12 - after warxhing his performances a number of times he is slow off he mark when getting the ball - he does not off-load balls at all in tackle situations and decides to run over players as against around them.   Maybe  he should play full back - where he started his senior rugby career.   In any event if the attacking ability of the Sharks backline fall flats in theSuper 15 - it would indicate he should preferably not play at center.   Taute has a more recent history of playing at full back - so he may be a better option.

No 14 Wing

Hougaard wants to play at scrummie and will not play wing at future.   He was not really up to scratch  at wing and I cannot see how his relative poor ratings in match make him he number 2 ranked wing.

No 13 Center

Great balls of fire - how is a player rated who had a disastrous performance in Super 15 - bugger up a try-scoring opportunity against he Wallabies and was a farce in the tests he played in over the last to weeks even be rated at all! !!.  

I am happy with Jordaan rating - for he proved himself in Super 15 and in CC.  

No 12

Other than De Villiers - this is a wide open position and players will have to come out and display their wares in the Super Series.   That includes Francois Steyn.

No 11

No problem

No 10

Interesting they put Lambie and Goosen at 1 and 2.   This could obviously be influenced by Super 15 performances.   No Jantjies - so somebody else also saw through him.

Scrummie

Pienaar's latest performance was not good - but he played well in earlier tests.

Loosies

No problem - other than wirh Bruussow - who did not have a decemnt game this year in either Super 15 or CC.   Louw will stay and Meyer implied that he is teaching Coetzee the art - so I would not say there can ever be  a consideration of Brussow at 6.

Propa

Steenkampis a joke - FUNNY HA _ HA - He had a poor game against the Scros and average one agianst the POMS.  Played from the bench for his club - so what allows for FATSO to be rated?

Mike those are my ratings, and I stand by them.

Mike those are my ratings, and I stand by them.

Moz, I struggle to see how you conclude that is the side I would have selected for my ranking would probably see a side along the lines of:

15. Lambie 14. JP 13. Taute 12. Frans 11. Habana 10. Goosen 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Jannie 4. Etzebeth 5. Bekker 6. Louw 7. Elstadt 8. Vermeulen 16. Pienaar 17. JJ Engelbrecht 18. Jordaan 19. Coenie 20. Kitshoff 21. Strauss 22. Steph du Toit 23. Coetzee.........now this is what I would call a hot Bok side

Mozart. That should have been your shortest post ever!

Mozart

I cooncur with a lot of your ratiuings - but not with 13 (and for vry good resons Imentioned above - based on his stats De Jongh is not an international standard player - and there is no sign that he ever would be) and at prop where I do not rare Steenkamp for the reasons stated.

I personally would not like to see De Jongh again in a Springbok jersey.   Ler me explain a bit more.   I could not understand why he was not receving passes - there were quite a number of  balls passed along the backline and tried to figure out why Kirchner and not him received the balls 

I watched him in the London test again tonight.   I now understand why  he never received the ball in passing - he has no ball sense.   He constantly take up positions where the ball cannot conceivably be going.    In maul situations he was on the opposite side of  mauls from where the backline is forming up for attack.   He is even in positions where the opposition backline would realisitically not attack.   Attacks normally are not from structured play - but from mauls, etc.   His absence from the attacking position nullifies attacks - even if Kirchner joint up in the line.

I also noted that when he runs back in the event where balls were kicked by the POMS in fact away from the direction the ball is kicked in.     If the ball went into the Springbok 22 on the left side of the field he runs back towards the right side of the field.    Cannot figure that one out as well.

There was one strange one as well - a POM player ran towards him and passed the ball before De Jongh could affect a tackle.   He stretched out his hand as if he was trying to prevent the pass - but he actually was in no position to intercept or prevent a pass.   The POM wing made a mess of the receipt and the ball went backwards.   De Jongh saw all this two meters from where the recipient was.   He did not go towards the ball to obstruct the recipient in efforts to recover the ball or to overturn possession.   What happened was amazing  - he ran away from the recipient towards the Springbok 22.   Nobody eould ever be able to convince me that there was any instinctive play or for that matter lacking ball-sense in what he was doing.

He has been in the Stormer and WP set-up for four years.   If he still does not know positional play - he never would.    In any event - I think we must look out for what De Jongh actually  does insofar as posirional play is concerend In Sper 15 next year.

Please Mozart - I would appreciate it if you can watch the game again and see whether my reading is in fact wrong - I do not think so and can only say - I have neer seen similar play by any center in the past and am really baffled by what he is doing.

I believe Meyer would study what he did and I can lay a bet - he will never be in a Springbok squad again.

Saffex

I support 80% of your selections - but will nrever  sgree with you on the Taute issue.   I think if you really think objectively there definitely is a future for Raute at full back - but his performances at center was average - better than De Jongh's - but he would not last there.   

As for Francois Steyn - there is a lot of improvement necessary if he ever try and make the no 12 berth his own.   He better start performing well in the Sharks backline where he will play in a team with strong attacking credentials.   If the backline does not function properly as an attacking unit - he wouldbe the player to blame -nobody else.   In that event he can kiss his selection as Springbok no 12 good bye. Do yourself a favour and watch him in the Super Series next year.   You refuse to see defucuencies in his performances in tests this year - but they are indeed blatant.

Same goes for Hougaard ay 9 +as is th case with Francois Steyn - in other wors buvk up or get dropped.

Saffex

I support 80% of your selections - but will nrever  sgree with you on the Taute issue.   I think if you really think objectively there definitely is a future for Raute at full back - but his performances at center was average - better than De Jongh's - but he would not last there.   

As for Francois Steyn - there is a lot of improvement necessary if he ever try and make the no 12 berth his own.   He better start performing well in the Sharks backline where he will play in a team with strong attacking credentials.   If the backline does not function properly as an attacking unit - he wouldbe the player to blame -nobody else.   In that event he can kiss his selection as Springbok no 12 good bye. Do yourself a favour and watch him in the Super Series next year.   You refuse to see defucuencies in his performances in tests this year - but they are indeed blatant.

Same goes for Hougaard ay 9 +as is th case with Francois Steyn - in other wors buvk up or get dropped.

Mike I am not interested in your thoughts on these players. I rely on my eyes and only my eyes, I dont need anyones input when it comes to matters rugby.

Taute is our best option at 13, no questions asked, same applies to Frans at 12, Hougaard at 9 and Lambie at 15 - end of

Mike I am not interested in your thoughts on these players. I rely on my eyes and only my eyes, I dont need anyones input when it comes to matters rugby.

Taute is our best option at 13, no questions asked, same applies to Frans at 12, Hougaard at 9 and Lambie at 15 - end of

Seriously Saf? Are you really such a bullheaded one eyed rigid person, that has no place for someone elses views?

So you know everything there is to know about the game?

Normally i keep quite when someone utters total crap like that, and I am very lenient towards other people's opinions to give them that space to actually have an opinion of their own. Seems you don't feel the same, therefore any normal conversation or argument with you on the topic is irrelevant, as you will never be wiling to see the other person's viewpoint?

Am I correct ? Or where you just bieng ignorant and stubborn talking off your mouth?

Saffex

You are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.   You gain certain impressions and that becomes gospel insofar as you are concerned - and everyone else making different observations are stupid and cannot see the light.

In the process you do not evaluate issues objectively and prefer to ignore the wishes of players themselves as to where they would want to play in future.

I think you are very wrong in some cases - and the most recent example was your attack on Faf Du Plessis.   It is likely to be the case of Taute as well - so lets wait and see what happens.   You refuse to even recognize and consider deficiencies in your favourite players - whilst everyone in the know recognise them and indicate the need for correction.   When people directly involved in rugby openly said the same thing about deficiencies they become in your view ignoramuses.   

Saffex - you are not objective my friend and I hope you ook critically at players and not become their blind followers.     

Swami that team I suggested for you above, was constructed out of the names you supplied of test ready players. My point is when you lump them together, it's so obvious they aren't test ready. It's a reality check.

By the way, I think Ek has put his finger on the issue that gets you into all these battles.

Moz back to you side you picked for me. Its better than the England one - who would you choose?

Taute vs Goode - Taute walks it by a country mile

Mapoe vs Brown - Mapoe for me

Howard vs Tuilangi - Tuilangi on size, but Howard at 101kg has better skill

Serfontein vs Barritt - no contest Serfontein walks it

Jantjies vs Flood - Jantjies by some distance, Flood

Reinach vs Youngs - I'll give this one to Youngs at this stage, but Reinach is up there

Vd Merwe vs Corb, I'll give this one to Corb

Brits vs Youngs - easiest call of the lot, half of Brits is better

Coenie vs Cole - Cole on scrumming, Coenie far superior player

Steph vs Launchbury - no contest, Steph walks it

Marais vs Parling - dont rate soft Parling at all. Marais is our new Mostert

Kolisi vs Robshaw - another easy call, Robshaw is not test standard, Kolisi anyday

Botha vs Wood - I rate Wood, but then Arno Botha is a class act - all square here

Daniel vs Morgan - Morgan has size, Daniel has skill - I'd go with Daniel, but not at 8, he would change with Botha who is a 8

Let me guess Moz, you rate these Poms over our youngsters?

Dave that team you selected might have lost by 40 points at Twickenham. And to put things in perspective....the only Poms I rate are the woman cyclists I saw at the Velodrome.

So effectively you rate those Pom players ahead of our lot - so in your eyes Goode is better than Taute, Barritt better than Serfontein etc.

There is no way in hell the Pom side would have beaten that side as that side is better man for man for the most

Mozart and Saffex

Saffex put together a team comprising a  theoretical team -  some of whome has as yet not play eve on CC level and claim they can beat the POMS.   Some are players that showed some form in Super 15 and then faded out also.  Its  a hard world out there - some youngsters come through - others fail and fall off the train.   Saffex never see the shortcomings and problems in his favourite players and call them world beaters.

All the above is a dream that will never reach reality - some of Saffex favourites have already failed on higher level - eg Jantjies - and since they msotly play on under 21 level - some are really unknown quantities.   You canot compare players theoretically without assessment on higher level.   It may be possible in theory - but is far removed from reality 

Calm down - lets forget about the theroies and see how the players perform in reality in Super 15 nexr year that is if the players all reahed the Super 15 level squads.

Ek, I dont give a toss what you think. I never said I would not listen to the opinions of others, what I have said is those opinions will never change my views on players, coaches, game plans etc. For I rely on my eyes and my eyes alone. If you dont like it piss off

So bright Mike, if Jantjies was such a failure, then how did he get nominated as one of the candidates for player of the year huh?

Well if Watson could become Player Of The Year.....any palooka could be nominated.

Watson's form merited that award

Saffex

I wrote elsewhere an analysis of Jantjies and I really believe that he is not even a rmote candidate for Springbok selection p once Goosen is back from injury -  Goosen and Lambie wuill be rge fllyhalfs of the future.  Jantjies will not even be in the squad - leave alone on the bench.   Far too many deficiencies in his game - that cannot be glossed over by hype.   He is at this stage probably fourth or fifth choice as Springbok flyhalf,

The POMS would have loved for him to play at flyhalf - they would attack through the pocket and since Jantjies is a poor face-to-face tackler - they will be succssful all the time.

Nomination as Player of the Year - but he did not get it.   Even Watson - who got that honour was not a regular Springbok - in the tests he did play - he was a farce.  He got the award - but was still a poor quality test player - Jantjies was nominated aand did not get the awatd - how much worse h must be - if that is you logic,

Mike, where have I ever selected Jantjies ahead of Goosen. Goosen is my first choice 10, hands down. Jantjies is my back-up. The kid is a class act who is going to shine for the Stormers next year

"Mike I am not interested in your thoughts on these players. I rely on my eyes and only my eyes, I dont need anyones input when it comes to matters rugby". (SEE AN OPTICIAN SOON!! - HAHAHAHAHAHAHA)

"Ek, I dont give a toss what you think"

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha hilarious stuff from ou snapster and classic rooitwit stuff.

EK rule number 1 never take ou snapster too seriously. He gets hen pecked at home. Sadly, in addition, he only wins 3.47% of his divorce cases. After a hard day of being bullied in court he travels home  (third class) by train - Moz know all the details - and hops on the internet to assert himself a bit. Bwahahahahahhahaha

Snapster has a good friend called Rooinek (Rooitwit is more appropriate). I would be surprised if snapster has not contacted rooitwit and told him to post here. So alongs comes jallopy (Aka rooitwit) who tries to disguise his presence here by the use of spelling mistakes etc. Rooitwit fled the rugby bloggers life after some, lets say, traumatic experiences - hehehehehehehe. Being afraid of more of the same he travells incognito  - or so he thinks! Rooitwit can also be hilarious in the snapster mould but they both need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

"Mike I am not interested in your thoughts on these players. I rely on my eyes and only my eyes, I dont need anyones input when it comes to matters rugby". (SEE AN OPTICIAN SOON!! - HAHAHAHAHAHAHA)

"Ek, I dont give a toss what you think"

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha hilarious stuff from ou snapster and classic rooitwit stuff.

EK rule number 1 never take ou snapster too seriously. He gets hen pecked at home. Sadly, in addition, he only wins 3.47% of his divorce cases. After a hard day of being bullied in court he travels home (third class) by train - Moz know all the details - and hops on the internet to assert himself a bit. Bwahahahahahhahaha

Snapster has a good friend called Rooinek (Rooitwit is more appropriate). I would be surprised if snapster has not contacted rooitwit and told him to post here. So alongs comes jallopy (Aka rooitwit) who tries to disguise his presence here by the use of spelling mistakes etc. Rooitwit fled the rugby bloggers life after some, lets say, traumatic experiences - hehehehehehehe. Being afraid of more of the same he travells incognito - or so he thinks! Rooitwit can also be hilarious in the snapster mould but they both need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Was just trying to help the guy out to become a better adjusted Human bieng.

There is a saying that goes like this:

Everyone thinks of Changing the world,

but no one thinks of changing themself.....

Beeno

Hilarious stuff - you posted reports from keo on this site religously virtually on a daily basis - if that is not opinion pieces - sometimes askewed ones - I don't know why you go dilly when I wrote something.

O yes - I forgot - with the Jantjies issue I took a swipe at one of the future players the Stormers have signed up - so I must be mad.   Yes - I am mad because the Stormers made a huge stuff-up in signing him.   Mark my words - they are going to regret that signing - unless they somehow manage to correct his shortcomings.   Will they manage that?   Not on your life - he may get tackled if he stands less deep in the pocket and the poor dear may feel something like a bit of pain to be treated for 10 minutes on the field of play. 

15. Lambie,Frans,Luddick

14. JP Pietersen,Aplon

13. Taute

12. Frans, Jean

11. Habana,Houggard.Rhule

10. Goosen,Lambie

9.Pienaar,Sarel

8.Vermuelen

7.Alberts,Coetzee,Elstadt

6. Louw,Fourie,Brussow

5.Bekker

4.Etzabeth

3.Jannie

2. Bismarck, Strauss

1.Beast, Coenie

dan dan

I like your squad - and think you really cannot be faulted.   I am not sure about Taute at 13 though - he prefers to play at 15 and was not really house on fire at 13 - desite Saffex's rumblings to the contrary.  I would add - on form this year - Jordaan at 13 as well.

Thanx Mike,I am also not certain about Taute at 13,personally i also prefer him at fullback but with Goosen back from injury i would have to have Pat as my first choice. We seem extremely thin in the number 13 position,Jordaan did spring to mind and will probably claim that jersey in the next year or two but did not include him as i would like to see how he operates after another year of super rugby! Would also like to see Jan Serfontein given a real chance at super rugby as well as he dominated the u20 WC and he is still u19 this year!

dan dan

Spor on my friend - I am worried about cneter selections in particular  - but as you said Serfontein may yet prove that he is the real deal.  Being an admirer of Serfontein I hope that the Bulls does not fluff up insofar as his usage is concerned.   I also like the bit I saw of De Allende - especially in the games he came on for WP in the CC series, as well as in the final.   He also seems to be a very good prospect.

Fact is - I am worried about De Villiers - he was not seriously injured this year - but in the past he often enough sustained serious injury that took time to heal.  He is not getting any younger either - and I really hope he gets through the Super Series unscathed.    Howevr, he is by no menas a longer term prospect at center.

I am really also in a quandary about Francois Steyn as well - is he the real deal or not?   Signs are not always encouraging - so lets hope for the best.   I was very disappointed in De Jongh and I think he fell out of contention.   So I think the field is in fact wide open and only the best performers in Super 15 will ultimately prevail