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FORUM / RUGBY /  Overseas-based SA players are no traitors!

Overseas-based SA players are no traitors!

Started by Beeno17 REPLIES412 VIEWS· 22 Feb 2017, 11:14
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Feb 2017, 11:14
#1
22 Feb 2017, 11:14#1
Nice to see Keo getting it right. Some misguided oaks here are making complete twits of themselves on this subject. 

Those South African rugby players excelling overseas are not sellouts to the game in South Africa. Nor are they traitors.

They have also betrayed no one and are being no less patriotic than the doctor, accountant and other working professional whose skills command top currency outside of South Africa.

Don’t be so quick and dismissive of the merits of those South African players abroad. Springbok rugby will suffer even more if that channel of selection is shut down. (Exactly so! This should be obvious to even somebody as dense as dense denise!)

The Springboks must represent the best South African rugby players on the planet. It shouldn’t matter where they are based. To be the best, we have to be selecting the best.

The reality is many of the best South African players are now based overseas.

We should also not confuse our situation with that of New Zealand’s. (NOW THAT OF COURSE IS WHERE THE DEBATE SHOULD ARISE)

The policy in New Zealand is not to pick foreign-based players, but the policy in New Zealand since the advent of professionalism has also included a national contracting system that puts country before region.


South Africa’s professional rugby has never had a national contracting system in place and regions/provinces dictate employment to the professional player base.

South Africa’s 14 professional provinces are financially challenged and the demands of professional payments and professionalism have translated into the majority being closer to bankrupt than financially buoyant.

New Zealand’s local dollar currency is also strong in comparison to the failing South African Rand. They can offer their best player competitive counters to anything in Europe, the United Kingdom or Japan.


They don’t lose the spine of their best All Blacks to overseas clubs, whereas South Africa's domestic game every year loses a core of first-choice Test selections.

Frans Steyn is an example of a player whose skills are so highly regarded that it would have made no business sense for him to refuse the many overseas offers since he won a World Cup as a 20-year-old.

Steyn’s talent is more appreciated abroad than in South Africa and he is one player who has never turned his back on South Africa. He has always wanted to be a Springbok. Some clubs, especially those in Japan, enforce players to give up their international careers for the high contract number. But that’s in the minority. The bulk of South Africans abroad have always committed to the Springboks as their first choice.

Players like Brad Barritt (England), Scott Spedding, Bernard le Roux, Rory Kockott (all France), Josh Strauss, WP Nel (Scotland) and Richardt Strauss and CJ Stander (Ireland) made a conscious decision that an oversees career move would also mean a change in international allegiance.


Those mentioned were either told they were not going to be selected for the Boks or improved dramatically as players post their South African feeder education.

Their decision to play for another country has to be respected.

Those who make it clear they want to be Springboks should not be punished because they command such high salaries abroad. Equally, there shouldn’t be a reward for those who stay simply because overseas clubs don’t regard them as highly.

Those within South Africa, be it the rugby media, the supporters or those who govern at provincial, regional and national level, should be mature enough to accept the reality of economics and the dramatic changing face of professional rugby.(Herein lies the problem with some oaks - not mature enough. Bwahahahahahahaha)

All that should matter is having the best available for selection, which doesn’t always translate into selecting the player.

The Springboks have lost to Wales three times in 100 years, with two of those defeats in the last two visits to Cardiff. In both those instances South Africa picked only local based players.


The standard of our local professional game isn’t strong enough to disregard the claims of those outstanding South Africans starring in the French Top 14, the English Premiership, the Celtic Pro 12 and in the European 1st and 2nd Tier Premier knockout competitions. 

All of those competitions are stronger than the Currie Cup and Super Rugby Stronger than Super Rugby????), with the latter’s playing strength integrity compromised through expansion from 12 to 18 teams.


There will always be difficulty in managing player-conditioning when a player is peaking at different times in the Northern Hemisphere to the Southern Hemisphere, but it’s only when the Boks lose that this is presented as an excuse. When they have won, as they did with a record score against Australia in Brisbane, then the overseas-based player presence (and conditioning) was not a negative.

The Boks, when playing in the World Cup, want to showcase the very best of South African rugby talent. That has to be the end goal. The season’s challenge is to manage and accommodate all player selection options.

The overseas-based player issue is always seen as a negative to our rugby when a different approach can turn it into a positive that gives the national coach every option to make the Boks a top three team.

There should be regular Bok training squads for those based in the Northern Hemisphere, just as there are for those based in South Africa. This gives the coach an opportunity to work with two groups of players and also allows for greater management of his playing resource.

For example, the Rugby Championship selection could come primarily from those players based in South Africa and the November Tests could reward those South African players up north, with the June internationals and World Cup squads being the best of the best from players in the north and south.

Why force a choice in one or the other when our national team can benefit from both playing resources?

It’s about finding a solution that rewards our rugby and our best rugby players and doesn’t punish them or weaken the Springboks.(Hear Hear . Do the oaks follow the argument I wonder!)

Picking foreign-based players is a decision that must be influenced through player potency and pragmatism and not through the misguided notion that patriotism - and subsequent Bok reward - is exclusive to players based in South Africa.


There can be no doubting that Keo has got the big picture right.



TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
22 Feb 2017, 13:40
#2
22 Feb 2017, 13:40#2
 The overseas-based player issue is always seen as a negative to our rugby when a different approach can turn it into a positive that gives the national coach every option to make the Boks a top three team.

The SA team must contend for the number one spot (and that by winning tournaments)
Anything else is unaffordable.
SA can no longer provide a priviledge to lose.


There should be regular Bok training squads for those based in the Northern Hemisphere, just as there are for those based in South Africa.

More expenditures.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
22 Feb 2017, 13:48
#3
22 Feb 2017, 13:48#3
 The bit is typical of excellent men's writings.

Usually, excellent men start with a statement to follow up with contradicting points.

Statement: SA players playing abroad are not sellouts.

To be followed up with:

SA players playing abroad sell themselves out but only to higher valued currency countries.

SA players playing abroad sell themselves out just like NZ players would if they were given the opportunity

and so on...

Typical of excellent men who long to destroy everything, including a proper assessment of what they are.


TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
22 Feb 2017, 13:52
#4
22 Feb 2017, 13:52#4
 The bulk of South Africans abroad have always committed to the Springboks as their first choice.

It is part of the business. Most often, in order to sell tickets, clubs look for players to raise the club's profile.
Hiring a player is also a matter of marketing.
Up to now, the SA tag sells. People will pay to see a team fielding SA players. It wont last forever.
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
22 Feb 2017, 21:12
#5
22 Feb 2017, 21:12#5
The bottom line is that anyone with skills that are in demand must surely be looking outside RSA for a chance to earn a worthwhile salary in real money terms.
The RSA Rand is worthless outside RSA, Namibia, Zimbabwe and Lesotho.
Example: On my first trip to Canada the Rand and C$ were on par.              Today the Rand is worth  C$ 0.10 - C$ 0.11.
In relation to the USA and Europe it is even worse.....so what would u do if u were in the shoes of these players for instance.
Add to that the fact that your chance of representing your country in sport, for instance, is hampered by the colour of your skin.
Irrespective of your skill set.
Shame but true.
 
 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Feb 2017, 21:47
#6
22 Feb 2017, 21:47#6
When I first went to the States the Rand was wortth $1.4....now it's worth 7 cents. Of course inflation has been much higher in RSA so theoretically the change hasn't been so damaging for salaried people. From a rugby standpoint the decline of the R from 7 to the dollar a decade ago, to 14 to the dollar today has been the big change in the professional era. Over the same period the NZ dollar has gone from about 0.8 to 0.71 to the US dollar, a manageable change. So opportunities are created for South Africans willing to put themselves through the trauma of a move. It would be small and self defeating to banish those Saffas who still want a Springbok affiliation.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Feb 2017, 11:42
#7
23 Feb 2017, 11:42#7
 Exactly so AJ and Dr Moz.However when we talk over foreign exchange rates and how badly this affects our being able to keep our players the complexities are way beyond our kbbs friends.  Your figures Moz would set them straight but they dont have the ability to understand them alas .
Hahahahahahahahaha
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
23 Feb 2017, 13:48
#8
23 Feb 2017, 13:48#8
 The rand is a resource based currency. With the decline of resources, going to depletion, the rand was expected to lose value.

There is no point training rugby players when they are, by this trend, called to play abroad. From the beginning, it was known that players would find better opportunities elsewhere (even without a loss in value, NH clubs will be able to pay more)

Rugby is unnecessary. It is another cause to stop rugby in SA. Or a cause to keep it going when you go for turning the whole SA region into a Kolmanskop.
In this case, it must be said that a rugby team made of players playing abroad in various clubs is unlikely to put out even strong loser rugby.

Rugby must be terminated in SA.
— END OF THREAD —

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