Paul Willemse could be playing for France

Meyer's 2015 locks were Victor (38), Lood (22), Eben (23), Flip (30), Steph (22).

Flip missed out on the World Cup through injury I believe. In hindsight, if Paul was as good as claimed, Meyer should have selected him ahead of Lood, or Steph. Particularly Steph at that time.

It'll be interesting seeing what he does against the Boks. If his reputation is legit, he would help hit the Boks where they need to be hit to cause an upset. 

How good is Willemse?    Nobody knows and to start writing about him as a potential lock is really a joke.   He was always a 4 and I believe that Etxebeth at 4 is better than him.   

Willemse is a huge bulky player - but from what I have seen as a junior and Bulls player he had a discipline problem and a serious one at that - he  was red-carded in the 2012 Under20 WC final  for pulling the dreadlocks of an AB player - which could have lost the final for the SA Juniors.  He then played for the Bulls where the problem was not really solved and ended up with regular yellow cards as well.

He then vanished from sight - playing two years for Grenoble and then went to Montpellier.   I have not seen enough of his performance for the French club sides to really  comment on his performances.    When he left SA he indicated that he would come back  in 2016 to ensure his candidacy for laying for the Springboks - but he never did.    

As SB said Meyer always prefer to select players based on reputation and age.   Willemse missed out in his selection criteria since his reputation was not all that spotless.

In general his early years showed a slowish player with some line-out problems, but cannot comment on his performances in France - where a slowish lock can flourish,  I have not seen enough Top 14 games - but am not sure whether he will make the French test team - he will be up against tough competition for selection.   So lets see what happens.       

No he didn't. Youth first, age second. I already debunked your nonsense around a week ago. 

Either way, the outcry for leaving out either one of  Steph or Lood would have been too much. If Paul hadn't delivered immediately, the knives would have been out. If we exited a WC with such an unproven entity Meyer would have been labelled reckless and stupid.

I haven't seen anything of him, so can't say how good he is. I'll see what he does for France. If he plays. 

Willemse looked very good to me and this looks like another bad loss to our rugby. A powerhouse in the tight phases of the game. Will be interesti ng to see him play again

Well if he wus passionate about being a Bok he wouldn't have gone OE at such a young age .

Thats a damn shame ,once again the NH sleazes up to another young SH player and whispers honeyed words into their shell like ear.I think thats another good reason for blooding as many as possible .

Notice how almost zero NH players would  get asked to play for SH teams  even if the money were matched.

5 years at a minimum waiting period.

Bob you can blame a guy wanting to secure his future. in any case why should any white South African feel any intense loyalty to a country that discriminates against him in every way. Sad but true. 

Good luck to Willems e but what a pity things are the way they are.

AO

The following was what you wrote:-

"No he didn't. Youth first, age second. I already debunked your nonsense around a week ago."

Sure in the WC squad there were 17 players over the age of 29 and 15 younger players.  The average age of the players selected by Meyer for the WC quad was 29,6 years (as worked out by Mozart at the time.

Meyer had a reputation of running back to players based on reputation and experience.  He said so himself on at least two occasions.

Where you get the above statement from is ridiculous and totally out of what Meyer did.   You have debunked zero - but to lie about the average age of the players in the team in the Japan test in the WC.   

Meyer was an age fanatic - he even selected for the WC squad players who have not played any test rugby for up to 2 years before the start of the WC.  So no more tripe about the myth of yours  I quoted please.       

Mozart

You have always spouted praise songs about Willemse and tried to discredit De Jager and Du Toit - so what must be expect from the thread started by you.

Hell - but you are mixed up - nobody said anything about the position other than I saod he was a no 4 lock.   Are you nuts or something.    

Frankly

He always played for the Bulls at 4 and playing in France is of no real interest to me.  I have not seen him play for a long time - and I always had a distrust of players from France - there were regular bench players that walked into the Springbok team when Meyer was coach and then there was Fat Fransie who came back from France and was so Fat and Unfit he was useless for years after his return.

Anyway playing at 4 in one game does not make him a full-time 5 anyway - so wake up please.   In any event the teamsheet does not help much = ewhere did he jup in the line-outs, dimness?    

Frankly

He always played for the Bulls at 4 and playing in France is of no real interest to me.  I have not seen him play for a long time - and I always had a distrust of players from France - there were regular bench players that walked into the Springbok team when Meyer was coach and then there was Fat Fransie who came back from France and was so Fat and Unfit he was useless for years after his return.

Anyway playing at 4 in one game does not make him a full-time 5 anyway - so wake up please.   In any event the teamsheet does not help much - where did he jum p in the line-outs, dimness?    

No - you are the only real idiot on this site who are totally rugby illiterate.    

No - you are the only real idiot on this site who are totally rugby illiterate.    

This has been a terrible week for Lügnerin. Not even the r eturn of his ally Herr Drache could save him.

FR will at last win a game: they have a white SA player playing for them, the best players in the world.

Bob you can blame a guy wanting to secure his future. in any case why should any white South African feel any intense loyalty to a country that discriminates against him in every way. Sad but true.

Japanese Americans were sent to concentration camps during WWII. Their lack of loyalty never reached half of the tenth of SA white people's loyalty.

Japanese weren't/aren't betrayed by their own people. Their strong loyalty comes from their collective resolve. South Africa is the complete antithesis of that. 

Dave 

I am not sure about Willemse at all.   Rassie must have seen much of him playing for Montpellier- but may not have been impressed by him.   I would not have been too worried by Erasmus pickling Ori for the Wales test squad - since the idea was to pick quota players to see whether they make the grade on higher level in a test where NH club players would not have been available anyway (it fell outside the test window period).    

I have not seen much of Willemse since his departure for France and you may have seen more of him, but he has been good in the Under 20's and not so good playing for the Bulls subsequently - always had a discipline problem though.    Maybe he would be good enough on test level - but am not sure of that.

Meyer had an opportunity to pick him at lock for the WC squad - but the weirdo did not - he preferred Matfield and Flippie as the locks and Matfield did not make the grade and Flippie was not available due to injury..   He should have done what you propose as to the lock situation and then perhaps the team would not have lost in the Japan test.   

Erasmus - if his remarks are borne in mind - seems to prefer Etzebeth and De Jager as his lock combination and the chances of selection of Willemse for the EOYT is remote.  That may be the last chance for Willemse to be retained to play for SA if he does make the French squad for the November tests and is used in tests. 

By the way I think that if Schickerling was available for the Welsh test  Erasmus would pick him ahead of Orie - who at best is not even a top Super Rugby level player.  . 

  .              

"Meyer had an opportunity to pick him at lock for the WC squad - but the weirdo did not - he preferred Matfield and Flippie as the locks and Matfield did not make the grade and Flippie was not available due to injury..   He should have done what you propose as to the lock situation and then perhaps the team would not have lost in the Japan test."

This is priceless. Meyer already had two 22 year old locks and a 23 year old. For a WC. You now call Meyer a weirdo for mot selecting a lock you admitted had "major" disciplinary issues in 2013 to 2015. Where was the support for such an inclusion? Nowhere. Willemse was small fries in Meyer's time. Now he is being selected for France, and it's a stuff up by Meyer. Incredible. At least you aren't biased though, at least we can say that much. 

Himmell - ignorance by AO will always be bliss.   I would always pick a 23 year-old ahead of a 38 year old failure as a lock.  Matfield should never have returned to play after his retirement - he did massive damage to his reputation by doing that.           

That statement incorrect. It assumes that I want a failed lock of 38 years of age. That isn't true. 

Where was Steph against Japan? Or Lood against Wales and New Zealand? 

In 2015, were you calling for Willemse to be our choice lock going into the WC? I bet it was Lood and Steph, and you thought of noone else. 

Dave

I accept your view on Willemse - but still maintain that the ground work for selection of Willemse should have been laid by Meyer in the 2015 WC - to be quite frank the selection by Meyer of Matfield and Flippie in the 2015 squad was crazy.

I tink Rassie made a mistake in June when he asked for calling up Frans Steyn and Bismarck du Plessis - but not Willemse.   To be quite frank I would have preferred Willemse being called up ahead of the two - who eventually could not make it.  Fact is both Bismarck and Steyn are at this stage either over-the-hill or just plain not test standard players anymore.

I am afraid it is too late to call up Willemse now for the EOYT squad and the only hope is that he will not get any playing time and thuss till be available for the Springboks.    

I agree with you about Ori though.

Why not indeed? He dished out alot of nothing caps against Wales. It would have been an opportunity to see what he could do. Of course, that's presuming he is as good as stated. We'll see against France. 

Stooge

You cannot at all understand anything at all.   The Wales test was outside of the test window for release of club players and  Willemse would not have been released to play in that test.   When w ill you ever learn anything?????????? 

Dave, I've only been back once since I met you in 2010 but I am planning a UK trip for June/July next year if the exchange rate doesn't make it prohibitive. 

Planning on visiting lots of family in various places like Kent, Bristol, Wales, Lancaster, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Cambridge.