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FORUM / RUGBY /  Poms to sing new anthem?

Poms to sing new anthem?

Started by Rooinek35 REPLIES941 VIEWS· 13 Jan 2016, 13:14
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RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
13 Jan 2016, 13:14
#1
13 Jan 2016, 13:14#1
Looks like the Poms will be debating whether to dump "God Save the Queen" as their pre-rugby-test anthem and adopt a new English anthem . . . on the grounds that "God Save the Queen" is the British anthem rather than the English one.

The replacement candidates are "Jerusalem", "Land of Hope and Glory" and "I Vow to Thee my Country".

Interested to hear Becs' take on this . . . I have no doubt she will have a strong opinion one way or the other!

The full article can be read here.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
13 Jan 2016, 14:30
#2
13 Jan 2016, 14:30#2
It isn't just Rugby, it's all sport.....and you REALLY do not want to know my opinion on this !! 

As for the Rugby, it will probably be replaced by Kylie singing a medley of her " hits " or " Waltzing Matilda " Either way, I care not. They are no longer my team and no longer have my support. I simply wait for the day when that odious little man is gone and hope the damage is not too great. 
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
13 Jan 2016, 14:37
#3
13 Jan 2016, 14:37#3
Haha! Must admit, I'd feel the same about One-Eyed Eddie as you. Can't stand the jumped up little jerk. Wish he'd stayed with the Stormers!

I do think the anthem-changing lobby has a valid point. You lot sing God Save the Queen for all your British events and occasions, perhaps it is time for an English sports anthem . . . and  both "Jerusalem" and "Land of Hope and Glory" have real traditions.

Also, don't you think it's time you dumped "Swing Low Sweet Chariot"? Never understood how a negro spiritual song became the English rugby song.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
13 Jan 2016, 15:30
#4
13 Jan 2016, 15:30#4
Rooi, traditions rarely make sense! Still, the singing of Swing Low creates an amazing atmosphere, so I say leave it be! 
I think It'll be interesting to see what Eddie Jones can do. In 2007 he may have made a big impact on the Boks, and he may not have. It is difficult to measure what difference he actually made. Outside that, his achievements seem to have been one historical win against the Boks with Japan...and that is about it! We'll find out if he is "all that" soon enough. 
Becs, by the way, if your boys start kicking @ss and bring home the World Cup in four years time...I'm sure you'll be supporting them! Anyway, it could be worse...you could be a Bok supporter! We don't even have a coach, and when we finally get one he will have an impossible transformation target imposed on him. Boks to be consistently at no.4/5 for the next four years! 
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
13 Jan 2016, 16:12
#5
13 Jan 2016, 16:12#5
 I think you'll find that the Anthem is rather stirring to an England fan, whatever the left wingers would have you believe. And it is rather amusing to me that they then offer up the alternatives as songs associated with the Upper Classes....the thing those little Republicans and their hatred of all things " posh " despise the most ! Always tickles me anyway  And they just can't see it ! We sing them all pre match anyway. I don't see the problem. Leave it as it is. And let the team sing it.....retire the screeching bimbos for good. 
" Swing Low " is something I have never sung, never will. Blasted Rugby Clubs used to sing a filthy version of it and then it just got picked up in the '80's. I don't think it should be sing, but I never get to make the rules, sadly !! 
No, I won't be supporting them, regardless. My game is in the pits and, until Jones leaves England, I will not support them ( 42 years...since birth ! ) and I know of others who will not either. The whole game is in the mire and the players/coaches/clubs etc are to blame. They are killing it by inches. It's a disgrace. And for your information, I do support South Africa ! You remain my second team...although, technically, you are now my first !! 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
13 Jan 2016, 17:21
#6
13 Jan 2016, 17:21#6
 The argument/debate about the anthem is not a new one and I am not sure if it was ever debated in parliament before. Becs would know better. As being non-British I do not have a say in it either. 
Unlike Becs, England is still me "second team" due to living here and having two English grandsons and daughter in law. 
My opinion about the anthem is that I also agree that "God save the Queen/King" should be the British Anthem and that England should have their own anthem. My personal choice would have been I Vow To Thee My Country, purely because I think that it is a great piece of music and it sounds great when a big crowd sings it. 
Listen to the crowd sing Land of Hope and Glory at the Last Night of the Proms (there is a fairly long intro)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLKSDT_2zPA

Jerusalem  and God save the Queen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=041nXAAn714

I Vow To Thee My Country:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvouc8Qs_MI

AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
13 Jan 2016, 17:56
#7
13 Jan 2016, 17:56#7
Whilst I think God Save The Queen is a good song, and I believe QE2 is a good monarch. I've always thought the National Anthem of Britain should be more country based and not royally based.

I've always imagined that something like 'Rule Britannia' would be ridiculously imposing to be sung. 

Obviously, I say this as someone who moved to England aged 6 so I'd imagine the true Brits probably feel differently to me.

What's your view Becs?
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
13 Jan 2016, 19:05
#8
13 Jan 2016, 19:05#8
 I think GSTQ/K is rather more English than British. MHO from my unresearched opinion. Get another British Anthem if you want to be PC, or rather leave things as is...almost as stupid as NZ wanting a new flag. It's like trying to change history. ..things are what they are due to history, trying to change things for the sake of symmetry is illogical.  Life is not symmetrical,  deal with it.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,276 posts
13 Jan 2016, 19:32
#9
13 Jan 2016, 19:32#9
England will soon be singing the united nations anthem with all the foreign players in the English premiership . 
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
13 Jan 2016, 20:58
#10
13 Jan 2016, 20:58#10
 Not sure if it has ever been debated in Parliament before, Ceradyne. I can't recall so, but the brain is sketchy these days. However, I think you will agree that we certainly have more pressing matters to discuss in Parliamentary time than this, don't we ?! 
I do have to say that, to many of us, God Save the Queen is not thought of as anything but " our " anthem....you see, we are Great Britain, to all intents and purposes, so it doesn't really figure as an option to many ! The other countries can pick a pub song, a hymn, a mish mash of an anthem....that's fine. So that's sorted. Status Quo resumed. Things stay as they are. 
" Rule Brittania " would be an issue as it is about Britain, not England, so we might as well stick with the Queen at that rate  Jolly old ditty, ain't it ?! ( and that is a quaint usage of the term, not grammatical error, before anyone calls me out on it ) 
Well, that is an interesting thing to hear, Draad. I must say most from abroad do not consider it English, in my experience, so that is quite unusual  

As for you, sharkbok......look at the team for the 6 Nations. We probably have the least " foreign " players yet again. But keep on being an ill informed parrot. Seems to suit you ! 
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
13 Jan 2016, 21:01
#11
13 Jan 2016, 21:01#11
I'm going to see the fantastic Mumford & Sons in Cape Town in 2 weeks time so I've been listening to all their albums and I reckon the Poms could do worse than a song like "Ditmas" as their rugby anthem . . . although lyrically, "I Will Wait" is probably more appropriate . . . or maybe "Little Lion Man" (I really f@#&ed it up this time)!
Haven't been this excited for a concert in a long time . . . and then it's off to Kenilworth for the J&B Met the next day! Can't wait!
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
13 Jan 2016, 21:57
#12
13 Jan 2016, 21:57#12
 Oh I am soooooo jealous, Rooinek ! One of my ultimate favourites and I am sad to say I have never had the pleasure to see them, even though I was a fan before " Sigh no More " was released  A certain fellow poster has me to thank for introducing him to their music.....naming no names.....ahem......
" Little Lion Man " was an England team favourite, actually. And yes, I do believe some of us, including myself who does not use that sort of language, would concur that they well and truly have with the appointment of " the Blessed Eddie "  The team have to take responsibility for it too. I would sing with gusto !! 
Have a fantastic time and sing along for me  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
13 Jan 2016, 21:58
#13
13 Jan 2016, 21:58#13
 " I think you will agree that we certainly have more pressing matters to discuss in Parliamentary time than this, don't we ?! "
True that. 
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
13 Jan 2016, 22:26
#14
13 Jan 2016, 22:26#14
 Ain't it just, Ceradyne ? ( again.....not poor grammar  )  
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
13 Jan 2016, 23:01
#15
13 Jan 2016, 23:01#15
 Jeez Rooinek, don't have too much of a good time in Cape Town .............. you might end up liking the place .
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Jan 2016, 00:57
#16
14 Jan 2016, 00:57#16
what's the tip?
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
14 Jan 2016, 06:03
#17
14 Jan 2016, 06:03#17
 Becs, from my POV, the English of today conquered Britain.  The king and queen are English. The anthem is English and Britain is English. Wales and Scotty aren't countries, but rather "Provinces ".  Ireland might be truly independent, but the others not.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Jan 2016, 06:26
#18
14 Jan 2016, 06:26#18
 Perhaps the Queen would prefer the song of her ancestors ...Deutschland über  alles...blood is thicker than Malvern water.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
14 Jan 2016, 11:19
#19
14 Jan 2016, 11:19#19
"Jeez Rooinek, don't have too much of a good time in Cape Town .............. you might end up liking the place."

Actually I've always liked Cape Town . . . it's the Capetonians I don't like very much.


BE
becsPro4,378 posts
14 Jan 2016, 11:54
#20
14 Jan 2016, 11:54#20
As I keep telling you, Mozart, learn some History. I suppose you are one of those fools who believe there were no people called the English in this country and that they had no ancestors ? And that their ancestors did not even reach the Royalty of today ? I suppose you think the Queen Mother was German, do you ? She actually was more English than Scottish, for your information, but it kept them on side, bless their Tartan hearts. As I say, stop being so obvious and allowing yourself to be brainwashed all the time. Try to have an original thought once in a while......
Ireland wants to be part of the European Superstate, well, half of it does ! The other half wants to stay with us. They only want it because it has given them billions in Euros. You see, the evil English cannot rule them in any way....but Germany can  So their anthem will soon be " Ode to Joy ", the official anthem of Europe......
You have made me chuckle, Draad  
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
14 Jan 2016, 14:43
#21
14 Jan 2016, 14:43#21
 Happy New Year Becs
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
14 Jan 2016, 15:21
#22
14 Jan 2016, 15:21#22
 You too, Sir  
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
15 Jan 2016, 03:52
#23
15 Jan 2016, 03:52#23
 "Perhaps the Queen would prefer the song of her ancestors ...Deutschland über  alles"
Add  some fries or mash potatoes and her royal whatsaname can do a fandango.....think she'd look a sport in a kilt.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Jan 2016, 04:26
#24
15 Jan 2016, 04:26#24
 From the Telegraph, hardly a foreign source

The obvious place to start is the family tree, although unfolding it is enough to make even the most seasoned genealogist reach for a stiff drink. Yet what comes across very clearly — and very quickly — is that there is a lot of German in it. 

There is no real starting point, but we may as well begin with 1714. Queen Anne died, and her direct Stuart line came juddering to a halt. This caused a thorny problem because her 50 (or thereabouts) closest suitable relatives were all Catholic, so distinctly non grata. They were passed over, and in the end Georg Ludwig, the Protestant Prince Elector of Hanover, got the job, and our royal house changed from Stuart to Brunswick-L?neburg-Hanover, bringing with it a wealth of connections to the ancient royal houses of Welf and Este. 

It is worth pausing to note that, until recently, members of the Royal Family had no surname. They customarily used first names and the name of their house, which was inherited from the father (Richard the Lionheart was a Plantagenet, Henry VIII was a Tudor, George I was a Hanover). 

Accordingly, the House of Hanover ended with Queen Victoria, and her descendants took the dynastic name of her husband, Prince Albert, which was also German: Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, a branch of the eminent House of Wettin. 

Simple. But it does not end there.

The Queen and Prince Philip meet the cast of the Richard Strauss opera 'Der Rosenkavalier' after a gala performance at the National Theatre in Munich in 1965

When World War One bred increasing anti-German sentiment in Britain, astute observers noted that Kaiser Bill was Queen Victoria’s grandson and our King George V’s first cousin. In recognition of the delicacy of the position, George V changed the name of his royal house from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Windsor, after the castle. At the same time, he also took the modern step of adopting Windsor as a surname for his family. 

On her accession, Queen Elizabeth II chose to keep the name Windsor, and in 1960 the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh announced that they wanted their descendants who do not have an HRH title to be Mountbatten-Windsor. (Mountbatten is the Duke of Edinburgh’s adopted name. His German-Danish-Greek royal lines are Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Gl?cksburg on his father’s side, and Battenberg on his mother’s.) 

Well, so much for the German genealogy – not to mention customs. The Royal Family still opens its presents on Christmas Eve, following the German tradition, which Prince Albert was particularly keen on following.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Jan 2016, 04:30
#25
15 Jan 2016, 04:30#25
 So if the Queen prefers the German format for Christmas....why can't she have Deutchland uber alles or Ja, Ja, Ja Ja on the very rare occasions the Poms score a try?  It's certainly more relevant than Swing Low ...hahaha.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
15 Jan 2016, 06:33
#26
15 Jan 2016, 06:33#26
 Seems like you know "English" history better than the locals.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
15 Jan 2016, 07:37
#27
15 Jan 2016, 07:37#27
 According  to: http://www.englandandenglishhistory.com/origins-of-ethnic-english
Both the Anglos and the Saxons were Germanic tribes dating back to 50 BC and amongst other invaders, they invaded The Islets at different stages of Britain's history, but that's way too simplistic. 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
15 Jan 2016, 09:54
#28
15 Jan 2016, 09:54#28
 
That's rather interesting.

No wonder Hitler wanted the lost province of Britannia back under German rule.

It's all making sense now.




PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
15 Jan 2016, 11:10
#29
15 Jan 2016, 11:10#29
"Perhaps the Queen would prefer the song of her ancestors ...Deutschland über alles...blood is thicker than Malvern water." Lol Moz.
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
16 Jan 2016, 11:45
#30
16 Jan 2016, 11:45#30
 England has always had beautiful anthems...except the rather Swing low sweet chariot,nothing wrong with God save the queen but I must say "Land of hope and glory" has got to be
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
16 Jan 2016, 11:52
#31
16 Jan 2016, 11:52#31
 England has always had beautiful anthems...except the rather Swing low sweet chariot,nothing wrong with God save the queen but I must say "Land of hope and glory" has got to be one of the most loveliest ever written.

Love the Welsh anthems too but Men of Harlech is my favourite and it is as well liked as Land of our fathers.

My favourites are...

https://youtu.be/-tW0QqiT2LU

 

 

https://youtu.be/mhCgcZ0efAA

 

https://youtu.be/RPaJhlIIYjM

 

https://youtu.be/EbBGWR4VL58

 

https://youtu.be/i_ROlkMOL9s

 

https://youtu.be/AOAtz8xWM0w

 

 

 

 


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Jan 2016, 14:32
#32
16 Jan 2016, 14:32#32
 Point being, you don't get more English than the Queen and GSTQ and regardless of her ancestry,  the Queen is English. Britain is English first and foremost. The Scotts Welsh and Irish are cultural sub groups in the broader scheme of things. Conquered people given some separate identity by the ruling class, given a new lifeline with PC.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Jan 2016, 06:39
#33
17 Jan 2016, 06:39#33
'Given some separate identity by the ruling class'? C'mon the Welsh have always been devious, you can't blame the Poms for that.
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
17 Jan 2016, 10:11
#34
17 Jan 2016, 10:11#34
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nebe1zuEtbc

Apparently on the shortlist to replace Queenie's lament .






DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
17 Jan 2016, 13:17
#35
17 Jan 2016, 13:17#35
 Moz, correction, I should have said allowed....same as in SA, the ruling class changed, but we are still allowed biltong, wors and rugby. Some restrictions here and there, but we seem to cope.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,276 posts
17 Jan 2016, 16:08
#36
17 Jan 2016, 16:08#36
A sad state of affairs if we are debating the English national anthem. Seriously need the rugby season to start
— END OF THREAD —

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