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Rebels shock Crusaders in opener; Planet Rugby

Started by Just_win32 REPLIES305 VIEWS· 13 Feb 2015, 21:44
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JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
13 Feb 2015, 21:44
#1
13 Feb 2015, 21:44#1

The first Super Rugby game of the 2015 season produced the first upset as the Rebels beat the Crusaders 20-10 in Christchurch on Friday.

Once again, the Crusaders have made a false start to their season. The Rebels outscored their hosts two tries to one to snatch a deserved win, despite being reduced twice to 14 men. The result is the Rebels' first win outside Australia.

To make matter worse for last year's losing finalists, All Black fly-half dab Carter finished the game limping with what looked like a knee injury.

The Crusaders let themselves down with some poor finishing, making double the handling errors of the Rebels.

The scores were locked at 10-all when the hooter sounded for half-time after both teams had scored tries via their forwards.

Dan Carter gave the hosts an early three-point lead from the kicking tee but the Rebels scored the first try of the Super Rugby season as second rower Lopeti Timani powered over from short range.

Mike Harris landed the conversion to give the visitors an unexpected 7-3 lead, but the Crusaders replied a few minutes later as hooker Ben Funnell scored off the back rolling maul.

Carter's extras nudged the Crusaders back in front but Harris was also on target just before the interval to leave matters all square at the interval.

Harris's second penalty early in the second period put the Rebels back into front and the Crusaders were made to pay for turning down kickables chances as they hit the hour mark three points down.

And things went from bad to worse for the seven-time champs as the Rebels - despite being down a man after Sean McMahon saw yellow for a tip tackle - scored a second try, this time against the run of play.

Scrum-half Nic Stirzaker collected a loose ball, after Carter's chip ahead was blocked, and raced home from inside his own half. Harris added the conversion.

The Crusaders threw the kitchen sink at the Rebels defence in the closing minutes, but were unable to find a gap and thus could not even salvage a losing bonus point.

The scorers: For Crusaders:
Try: Funnell
Con: Carter
Pen: Carter
Yellow card: Drummond For Rebels:
Tries: Timani, Stirzaker
Cons: Harris 2
Pens: Harris 2
Yellow cards: Stirzaker, McMahon

Crusaders: 15 Colin Slade, 14 Robbie Fruean, 13 Kieron Fonotia, 12 Tom Taylor, 11 Johnny McNicholl, 10 Dan Carter, 9 Mitchell Drummond, 8 Luke Whitelock, 7 Matt Todd (c), 6 Richie McCaw, 5 Dominic Bird, 4 Luke Romano, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Ben Funnell, 1 Joe Moody. Replacements: 16 Codie Taylor, 17 Alex Hodgman, 18 Wyatt Crockett, 19 Scott Barrett, 20 Jordan Taufua, 21 Billy Guyton, 22 Ryan Crotty, 23 Nathaniel Apa.

Rebels: 15 Mike Harris, 14 Dom Shipperley, 13 Tamati Ellison, 12 Mitch Inman, 11 Tom English, 10 Jack Debreczeni, 9 Nic Stirzaker, 8 Scott Higginbotham, 7 Colby Fainga’a, 6 Sean McMahon, 5 Lopeti Timani, 4 Luke Jones, 3 Laurie Weeks, 2 Pat Leafa, 1 Toby Smith. Replacements: 16 Ben Whittaker, 17 Cruze Ah-Nau, 18 Paul Alo-Emile, 19 Sam Jeffries, 20 Scott Fuglistaller, 21 Luke Burgess, 22 Bryce Hegarty, 23 Sefanaia Naivalu.

Venue: AMI Stadium, Christchurch

Referee: Nick Briant

Assistant Referees: Shane McDermott, Brandon Pickerill

TMO: Aaron Paterson

JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
13 Feb 2015, 21:45
#2
13 Feb 2015, 21:45#2
 Same old Saders, off to another slow start Congrats to the Rebels though. I will watch the game tomorrow if I can stomach it.
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
13 Feb 2015, 22:45
#3
13 Feb 2015, 22:45#3
 Man up JW!! I had to endure the Lions throwing it away. At least the crusties lost to a better side!
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
13 Feb 2015, 23:48
#4
13 Feb 2015, 23:48#4
I haven't seen either game yet Beeno. I didn't notice you "manning up" on the Lions thread though, lol
BE
becs
Pro4,378 posts
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
14 Feb 2015, 01:34
#5
14 Feb 2015, 01:34#5
And now two Rebels have been Cited.....presumably for having the temerity to beat the Crusaders at home    
sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,285 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,285 posts
14 Feb 2015, 03:42
#6
14 Feb 2015, 03:42#6
 Crusties are perennial slow starters. The manage their players especially their internationals.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Feb 2015, 06:48
#7
14 Feb 2015, 06:48#7
 The problem here is not the fact that the Crusaders are perennial  slow starters - it is the way they played and the manner in which they lost the game.   Even though they lost games in the previous year and did in fact start slowly - they did not lose by not being competitive like the case was yesterday.
The Crusaders have a major problem inasmuch as Carter looked frail and extremely iffy and McCaw was more of a liability than an asset.   I think a recovery is possible - but not with those two players in the starting team.
There Tight 5 did not show anything against the very average Tight 5 of the Rebels.   Because of Carter more specifically - their backline never really fired.  However, according to the above report Carter was injured and hobbled off the field - so chances are they will play Slade, who did not look good at full back either - at flyhalf in their next game.             


BR
Brycy
Pro4,671 posts
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
14 Feb 2015, 07:02
#8
14 Feb 2015, 07:02#8
 ...not so clever mike I scored some good points in my Fantasy team from McCaw...Horwill on the other hand gave me minus eight...so will be dumping him like a sack of bricks..
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
14 Feb 2015, 09:49
#9
14 Feb 2015, 09:49#9
 mcaaaw is like matfiled. He can do next to nothing and still get rave reviews.
I was not impressed with the crusties and also not at all impressed with the hurricanes.
Early days of course.
Brumbies are looking good. 
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
14 Feb 2015, 10:45
#10
14 Feb 2015, 10:45#10
 The Ozzie teams should give the weee SA teams a run for their money this year. Claydog deserves some good results.
AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
14 Feb 2015, 15:24
#11
14 Feb 2015, 15:24#11
 Unacceptable performance by the saders.
Blackladder has had 5 years alraedy to solve this issue, the slow starts of the season. And what has he achieved? to get the issue worst.
yesterday's performance was pathetic. Based on current form they are now the worst team in the S15, they were hammered by the reds and lost against the rebels at home, 2 of the 3 worst teams, alongside cheetahs.
In 4 or 8 weeks they will be btwin the bests teams (if not the best) but the points lost this weekend will be crucial for deciding the home advantage in the finals.
Yesterday's performance is unacceptable. It's undestandable the lack of form of those who played regularly for the AB last season but what about the others? Why L. Whitelock, Bird, Romano, Todd, Taylor, Fonotia, Fruean,..... were also completely out of form?
I cannot understand why Blackladder left the only forward with some punch, Taufua, on the bench, nor why did he rest Nadolo who surely is in form after playing the japanese league but it's very doubtful that he needed resting since in Japan they played every 15 days. He could have solved the match any time before the rebels did it in the 65th minute.
And what I finally cannot understand is why the saders stick with this coach
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Feb 2015, 16:29
#12
14 Feb 2015, 16:29#12
 ABS
It is not that the Crusaders were completely out of form - there are other factors as well.   There were various problems that could be solved - but would eb difficult to accept:-
Problem 1
Carter was an extremely weak link in the Crusaders team.  He seemed to be frail and fearful of getting injured - so his game self-destructed.   He was even worse than he was last year against the Scots.    Seems to be overdue in retiring.
Problem 2
McCaw is also a problem - he made tackles, mostly of relatively weak quality - but also missed tackles and gave away penalties.   Basically he is not a shadow of the player he was before his so-called sabbatical.    At this stage he showed that he is 34 years old and way past his sell-by date.
Problem 3
In general I was not impressed by the Crusaders Tight 5 - they were showing no fighting spirit and was often enough standing around behind the pack doing nothing of substance.   That is why their was no cover when the Rebels scored their first try.   Maybe the reason was that they thought the game against the Rebels would eb a walk in the park - but they were no better in the pre-season game against the pathetic Reds as well.
Even though I agree with you about Nadolo - I must also express reservations as to whether he would have made a difference.   For him to make a difference meant he would have to get good backline balls and I did not see too many of those in the game yesterday.    
AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
15 Feb 2015, 14:35
#13
15 Feb 2015, 14:35#13
 no, mike, you reduce the problem to Carter and McCaw (and the tight5 but they won all their 8 scrums and one of the op., 10 of 12 lineouts, the try was after a rolling maul,...).

Carter and McCaw obviously didn't play well but they are not the only responsibles for the loss, all the team was flat, without any punch, out of form.
But you put all the blame on only 2 players just because you've got the preconceived idea that both are old and not up to standard anymore .

McCaw is one of the best players ever, probably the best openside ever but also last season (2 months ago) he was the best openside at test level (at least one of the bests). And you are dismissing him for just one match where all the team was disastrous? c'mon,.....

Carter has been out of the fields for a long time btwin sabbaticals and injuries and he has to prove that he's yet the player he was, that he's up to SR and test level.
But he needs time, last season he played 2 SR games and 1 test match, we are in the first round this season,...... give him some time, at 31 he's not so old. I'm sure that in 2 months time more or less (if he stays injury free), he'll be back on his form.
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
15 Feb 2015, 16:29
#14
15 Feb 2015, 16:29#14
 Abasq, there are more to tight five play than the set pieces. Have a look at the Bulls/Stormers game as illustration. It was only one of few games I watch this weekend, hence the reason for my suggestion. This game was all about forward dominance and as you would note, the Stormers even played without a specialist open-side, but they still dominated the breakdown.Look, I'm not singing their praises, but I am very happy about the result and I'm using this game as reference as it was the only game I really watch completely and with keen interest this w/e.As for McC and Carter, they are both legends of the game, but like Jean d V and Victor M...AND John Smit before them, time is catching up to them Their experience will help them, but in the end they will start to have the odd bad game more frequently as before and at some stage the bad games will be the norm. I did not see the game and I cannot comment on their play, but surely they can't have too many top class games left in the bank. Final RWC? by all means, but not as first choice players....and can you honestly see either of them being bench players?

Time to say Goodbye    
CL
Claydog
Club Pro691 posts
CL
ClaydogClub Pro691 posts
16 Feb 2015, 04:24
#15
16 Feb 2015, 04:24#15
 Crusaders were beaten by a team that turned up wanting to play and wanting to win. But last year I wrote them off early and there fore wont read too much into it. I was watching the game with my "I only drink when McCaw is offside" stubbie holder so cannot remember what happened in the second half.
AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
16 Feb 2015, 13:13
#16
16 Feb 2015, 13:13#16
 There's no possible comparison btwin different players, each one is a different case depending on the age, the field position, etc., etc.,....

Matfield is 37 and will be 38 by the RWC time. This is an age limit, very few players have reached it retaining an acceptable level, let alone the fitness required for test level. After his return he has shown some clear physichal deficiencies.
McCaw is 34 and will be 34 by the RWC. After his sabbatical he regained his previous form being the best openside at test level last season. Besides he's the best captain and leader ever, no doubt about it.

JdV is 33, by the RWC 34. During the last 4 years after the RWC 2011 he had 1 good season, an excellent one I would say, when he was 32 in the 2013 season. But that's all, the rest have been average. And now he's going to be the complete season out of the fields. I doubt very much that he can regain the level to play test matches. It's possible but very difficult, almost impossible. His leadership abilities would be shadowed if he cannot regain his form.
Carter is 31 now. Btwin sabbatical and injuries he played just 4 matches in the last year and a half or so (2 matches in june, 1 in november and 1 in february). It's impossible to know if he can regain his past level or not having played so sporadically, it would be impossible to know even for a 21 years old player.
He could perfectly have an outstanding season with 32, as JdV had it. It's also possible that he never again regains his past form but he needs gametime to prove one way or another.

As Just Win posted it in another thread here's the list of the 10 best CURRENT players according to the English Telegraph:

The Telegraph's top 10

1) Richie McCaw (NZ)
2) Kieran Read (NZ)
3) Brodie Retallick (NZ)
4) Julian Savea (NZ)
5) Duane Vermeulen (South Africa)
6) Israel Folau (Australia)
7) Dan Carter (NZ)
8) Jonathan [removed]ton (Ireland)
9) Conrad Smith (NZ)
10) Willie le Roux (South Africa)
RO
Rooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
16 Feb 2015, 13:28
#17
16 Feb 2015, 13:28#17
Not sure if McCaw still has what it takes to lead the All Blacks at this year's RWC but I do know that top 10 list is going to upset Baboon-ou!
AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
16 Feb 2015, 16:24
#18
16 Feb 2015, 16:24#18
 lol,.... and we can expect one of his "measured and full of respect"  comments in 3,2,1,.........
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Feb 2015, 20:41
#19
16 Feb 2015, 20:41#19
 ABS
Not sure when that list was compiled = but as you yourself said I have bnot seen Carter plays even a half-decent match since 3012.   He was a top class flyhalf - probably near to if not the best ever - but  not since 2012.   
I also find it rather strange that they mention Jonathan S exton -  he has not been playing rugby regularly for the past year - last time I counted he had 10 games since the beginning of 2014 and was off with injury more than he played.   He did play on Saturday - but was not the best flyhalf in the 6Nations this weekend either.   
McCaw is not the top open-sider in World rugby anymore - that selection  also seems to go baclk a few years.
This type o f list is more often based on reputation than actual performances in games - so rather see what happens throughout the season. 
By the way Savea was the only player on that list I had in my fantasy selections and he was one of my worst point-scorers.   A top class player - but he flopped this weekend.            
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Feb 2015, 21:19
#20
16 Feb 2015, 21:19#20
 Which Telegraph might this be? Not a NZ based one I presume. And tell me, on which facts did they base this and who were the adjudicators? Can we be sure of no bias? Sounds like BS to me, but of it suits the agenda, why the hell not?
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Feb 2015, 21:33
#21
16 Feb 2015, 21:33#21
 In Afrikaans, we've got a saying:" Moenie perdedrolle vir vye verkoop nie"Roughly translated: " don't try try to pretend the horse shit you are trying to peddle are in fact figs" I must say this is the best attempt of doing that I have ever seen on a rugby forum.
Read 2 and Thormeulen 5. Enough said.  Next you'll tell me is that it's true because your mom told ya so .  LMFAO! !!!. 
AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
16 Feb 2015, 22:18
#22
16 Feb 2015, 22:18#22
 @mike,

" I have bnot seen Carter plays even a half-decent match since 3012.   He was a top class flyhalf - probably near to if not the best ever - but  not since 2012."

In 2013 he begun playing in the 12th week of SR and by the end of it (when he got his form) he was playing outstandingly as he did in the game played in Dunedin and won 12-40 by the saders or the following week win 43-15 over the Chiefs. The semifinal won 38-9 against the Reds also saw him playing very good.

After this he just plyed the 3rd game of the Rugby Championship against the Argies where he played very good also before getting injured against SA.
Then he just played 25 minutes in his 100 AB cap against England, and after this he went sabbatical.

Since then he just played 4-5 matches. As I said before:
"It's impossible to know if he can regain his past level or not having played so sporadically,...
He could perfectly have an outstanding season with 32, as JdV had it. It's also possible that he never again regains his past form but he needs gametime to prove one way or another."

you also said that:
"McCaw is not the top open-sider in World rugby anymore"

As I also said before, " last season (2 months ago) he was the best openside at test level". I challenge you to say which openside was better than him in the test matches played last season
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Feb 2015, 22:33
#23
16 Feb 2015, 22:33#23
 I have given my correction re the silly list of top players elsewhere -  filled with wee ab has been and never has beens.Draad very gently put. mcaaaw is a hugely over hyped player and way over the hill. Never been that good just got away with murder as we all should know.  Dan on the other hand was a great flyhalf but is now past it.Draad its hard to be the bearer of bad tidings but we must keep the kbbs on the right bath! These groupies are particu lary hard to bring to reality.

AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
16 Feb 2015, 23:18
#24
16 Feb 2015, 23:18#24
 I don't care about that list,........ I don't care about any list,........... I just included it in my post, and this is why their names were in bold, to show that there are many others who consider both Carter and McCaw btwin the bests which links with my main point:
there's no reason to say that both are past their best and should retire
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Feb 2015, 03:33
#25
17 Feb 2015, 03:33#25
 ABS
McCaw ua bit the same player he was before his sabbatical.   Since his return he has goiven away more penalties than he used to - missed more tackles and makes very little in ball carries.   He also lost speed in the process.
I know the NZ supporters find that hard to accept - but it is factual.   There is nothing more acceptable to SA than to have him in the WC - he will not produce the goods as he used to.    
AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
17 Feb 2015, 13:30
#26
17 Feb 2015, 13:30#26
 @mike,
if you don't name any openside at test level who was better than McCaw I understand that even for you McCaw was the best last year,........ so why should the best player in his position (who besides is the best captain ever) retire?

BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Feb 2015, 08:54
#27
18 Feb 2015, 08:54#27
 Mike the trouble is the kbbs believe their own hype.Hahahahahahaha very funny actually. The power of the media. Ou ab ass also sucked in the climate change bit and now wonders how their models are all so wrong. He also sucked in evolution and heaps of egg landed.ab as may I suggest you think about things and not just suck in things like ou rooitwit. 
Thanks
PE
poi-e
Pro1,044 posts
PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
18 Feb 2015, 09:17
#28
18 Feb 2015, 09:17#28
 Beeno....still the worst poster on the interweb.
BR
Brycy
Pro4,671 posts
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
18 Feb 2015, 09:27
#29
18 Feb 2015, 09:27#29

 ...not so clever mike when stating something is factual it might help yr case if you back it up with some actual factual evidence...since King Richie's sabbatical statistically he's clearly still the best in the business as the most recent Test statistics indicate...Bean Brain don't be a dopey yarpy all yr life...



http://www.sportal.co.nz/rugby/allblacks/the-spring-tour-world-xv/1oo72ukx80hm71c4pezhb24rt0

BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Feb 2015, 09:34
#30
18 Feb 2015, 09:34#30
 Pooo  ie and brycy keep smoking it if it makes you feel better. 
We can only hope wee mcaaaw and Dan make the world cup. One always hopes the best for Cloudy!
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
18 Feb 2015, 12:11
#31
18 Feb 2015, 12:11#31

 Beeno: no worries about McCaw he will continue to plague opposing teams. One does notice how quick the fans of opposing teams like to write him off - wishful thinking

 

Beeno: it has been determined that the image below is a closer likeness to your state of mind , please use it in the future.


Beeno - a true likeness

He looks better in his blue & red shoes mumbled the fair-minded kiwi but one should be concerned about his mental well-being
PE
poi-e
Pro1,044 posts
PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
18 Feb 2015, 12:18
#32
18 Feb 2015, 12:18#32
I imagine Beeno's posts would resemble the ramblings of a lunatic written across the walls of an insane asylum in his own feces..
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Feb 2015, 13:47
#33
18 Feb 2015, 13:47#33
 Abasq, IMO RMcC is still a fine player, but he is definitely not the best open side on the planet. 
— END OF THREAD —

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