...notsoclevermike...,looks like the game is up for you mate..... multiple articles all saying the same thing.... so con sidering it's on the internet it must be true,..
Try to keep it clean will you
Brycy
We learn much from NZ referees - just think what happened a week ago in the Highlanders and Jaguares match,
The NZ players always played close to the line and they are no surprised when they get blown up fpr playing illegally.
One has to laugh when the Kiwis, get the short end of the stick for a few games and suddenly there are articles galore and the system needs an overhaul.
What happened to "You should put the game beyond the refs bad calls."
What about the classic "It swings in roundabouts."
And then there's always the "Refs are professionals and conspiracy is not possible."
Go back few years to Glen Jackson's game in Argie between the Lions and Jags.
I was one of the few here that watched that game and it was a hit job of note. It gifted the Kiwis a home final in SR and the Saders went on to win it.
Any mention of it at the time was called sour grapes blah blah blah.
I'm all for fair reffing. Always!
Fairness and justice in general are high on my list.
As it stands, SA has many more more seasons of corrupt reffing credit before we've levelled the scales with Kiwi refs.
When it comes to players cheating...well we've got at least a decade of credit for that one.
Again. Type "Rugby Cheats" into google and see which nation features more than all the others combined.
So many sour grapes. So much jealousy.
Give me a break.
So, let me ask this. Based on some of the Kiwi opinions here.
1) Are you suggesting that SA refs have been cheating or been iased recently?
2) Is this the only instance of ref cheating/bias in rugby that you've come across and if not then have your refs ever cheated too?
Do please give us examples substantiate your answer.
There are strings of games where NZ referees have swung games in favour of NZ teams and they have a bad name for that, It is like the pot calling the kettle black.
I think neutral referees is the answer - especially it concerns home teams and even away games when the outcome could improve the log positions of teams.
Thanks Mule-fart
You failed to answer the second question though.
There were no examples given either.
Pretty half arsed if you ask me.
Plum, something funny going on the stats say 1 against 20 penalties vs the rebels with the Lions more than 70% possession and territory....in all the matches the Lions had the bulk of the possession. I get that high penalty counts happen some times. What I don't get is the low penalty count for the Lions in those 3 matches: Highlanders 3-12, Rebels 1-20 and Tahs 2-11. Close scores regardless of the high penalty count and slanted possession, territory and penalty count. It looks blatantly wrong/fishy/dodgy/...
Having said that, the Down-Under lot has had the "rub of the green for years"...about time they get the odd call against them, but it leaves a bad taste. Sport should always be a fair contest, but rugby seems to be run by a bunch of amateurs.
Plum, something funny going on with the stats. 1 against 20 penalties vs the Rebels with the Lions more than 70% possession and territory....in all the matches the Lions had the bulk of the possession. I get that high penalty counts happen some times. What I don't get is the low penalty count for the Lions in those 3 matches: Highlanders 3-12, Rebels 1-20 and Tahs 2-11! WTF? Close scores regardless of the high penalty count and slanted possession, territory and penalty count. It looks blatantly wrong/fishy/dodgy/...
Having said that, the Down-Under lot has had the "rub of the green" for years...about time they got the odd calls against them, but it still leaves a bad taste. Sport should always be a fair contest, but rugby seems to be run by a bunch of amateurs.
Draad
Do you watch any Euro games?
For me, the one stark difference between their games and the games in SR and RC is the level of foul play.
Maybe SA refs are just starting to call the fouls they see instead of giving the benefit of the doubt to "playing at the edge of the law" BS.
Go back and watch those games. If 10% of the penalties were bad calls I'd be surprised. Could the Lions have been penalised more? Maybe.
Then contrast this discussion and your own omissions to any other discussions where kiwi refs are accused and have a look at the difference.
Was there any pity of the Jags a few weeks back? Nah, because it was business as usual.
Plum your question are excellent but will be brushed aside by the kiwis.
Plum, I agree with you, it's just the low penalty count for the Lions that completely baffles me. I'm tempted to watch the games again to make sure no-one fiddled with the stats.
Shark
That's the thing. One doesn't have to have a lopsided penalty count to get the same result.
Key calls are just as effective and that's what has been happening for a long time.
Those baffling penalties that swing momentum.
Also neutral SH refs doesn't help matters.
It makes it worse.
Here's why.
It allows refs to manage the log from a distance with much less scrutiny.
As in the Lions vs Jags game I mentioned earlier. Glen Jackson wanted to make sure the Lions lost that game because it would give the Saders a home final.
He had an agenda, similar to how it is now claimed that the SA refs have recently had an agenda. Only it was easier for him to disguise it because he wasn't reffing a game where a Kiwi team was involved.
It's better not to have neutral refs because it's easier to glean intent when a ref is blowing a game where a team from his country is involved.
See my logic?
To really solve the problem, we NH refs.
Very good points Plum, agree 100%...and that goes for local derbies too. No South African ref can be neutral when the Bulls or Stormers are playing.
Well once it can be proven SA refs have been biased for the next 90 years we can talk. Until then all kbbs must just suck it up and consider it a penance for decades of shady refereeing. Hahahahaha
Moolaa
As soon as NZ tams lose or even draw with teams in SA there is a storm about refereeing in SA - even of the referee is not South African - but from Australia. Never a fault of the NZ teams so a reason has to be found and the blame is laid against SA referees.
The same happens on both sides - so why di you go back to the 1970's and not deal with the present, As many complaints are made on both sides and the NZ referees eve sent out a circular how to prevent SA teams from winning anything in NZ and Australia,
So lets get over this and start thinking about having independent referees to start with, The resent system just does not work as is shown over the last two years and is really a problem. In the meantime lets get to a stage where the pots do not call the kettles black and realize something needs to be done to stop referee abuse.
Moolaa
As soon as NZ tams lose or even draw with teams in SA there is a storm about refereeing in SA - even of the referee is not South African - but from Australia. Never a fault of the NZ teams so a reason has to be found and the blame is laid against SA referees.
The same happens on both sides - so why di you go back to the 1970's and not deal with the present, As many complaints are made on both sides and the NZ referees eve sent out a circular how to prevent SA teams from winning anything in NZ and Australia,
So lets get over this and start thinking about having independent referees to start with, The resent system just does not work as is shown over the last two years and is really a problem. In the meantime lets get to a stage where the pots do not call the kettles black and realize something needs to be done to stop referee abuse.
Last week there was an Aussie ref in the Crusaders game against the Stormers.
One thing becomes abundantly clear when you read this thread.
Almost every Saffa here is happy to admit that the reffing was suspect and that this type of reffing needs to be gotten rid of. Happily admitting guilt for the greater good of the game.
So, Kiwis, are you ready for your "come to Jesus" moment or are we just gonna gloss over this one?
Looks pretty bad from where I'm sitting.
Just for some fun, here is a bit if Kiwi logic.
"Rasta wasn't cheating in the Lions game. If he was he'd have jumped at the chance to send the Kiwi player off for an intentional knock on his own try line. He only gave a penalty. Does that sound like someone that wanted to make sure the Lions won? Why would a clearly biased ref not jump at such a chance. The obvious answer - he was clearly not biased. Stop crying. Your team lost you pathetic whingers ."
Hahahaha
Maybe the advice of coaches to play on the border of illegality, Maybe the NZ refs are blind to that larceny - they were for years allowed McCaw to play according to his own rules and that was changed in 2014 and 2015 when he started to pick up penalties.
Mike, come on admit it - current rugby laws are invented to slow the All Blacks game to give the opposition a fighting chance - from touch/pause/set to totally ignoring the offside line when the opposition are defending with a "rush" defense (ala Lions) and enforcing it when the ABs are defending. Owen Farrell tackles like Butch James and gets away with it while SBW gets a red card--->too many incidents to call it a coincidence.
The trouble seems today is that referees are selected on merit but seem to interpret some laws differently and there is no doubt that prejudice has crept in in a few cases.
Marius Jonker's role as a tmo interfering with the on field refs decision is completely out of line and what add's fuel to the fire, he was indeed wrong. That's just not on...he is unfit to adjudicate the RWC games.
We want the best sides, even if they are not the sides we support to win...to win because of a blatant error of biase has bitter taste any how.
Refs must always be accountable in utter fairness and rule, errors will occur and that's unfortunate but integrity must be absolute...blatant misuse cannot be tolerated at all.
