Saffex - The Great Kolisis Debate

Saffex

I just want to raise an issue with you about Kolisi and hear your comments on that one - since you have constantly  supported him for inclusion in the Springbok team.   For record purposes I have included the corresponding information on Arno Botha as well - so as to get a real picture of the situation as to the performances of the two players.   However - insofar as Botha is concerned he only had 100 minutes playing time - as against the 160 minutes of Kolisi.

Kolisi

Going forward carrying the ball  -    4 

Tackles made                             -   12

Line Outs won                            -     1

Lose Possession of Ball             -     1

Botha

Going forward carrying the ball   -     8

Tackles made                             -      9

Line Outs won                             -      3

In comparing the above two players one has to bear in mind that Kolisi had 160 minutes playing time as against only 100 minutes of Botha.    Mathematically and in theory that would mean that supposing Botha also played 160 minutes his stats as to the above would be as follows:-

Going forward carrying the ball -    13   

Tackles made                            -    14

Line-outs won                            -      4

Really based on the above data Botha is a much more imposing player than Kolisi - is he not?  Should he not be punted ahead of Kolisi for inclusion in the Springbok team?

Mike snapster has a blindspot here I am afraid. Deon Fourie was the best 6 in lasts years Super 15 and of course in the Currie Cup where he was the ABSA Currie Cup player of the year.

Botha is looking good.

One thing for sure Kolisi is nowhere near Bok selection. He should not even retain a starting place for the Stormers once Tiaan is fit . Another guy who is not cutting it is Carr.

Kolisi is not even an average club player.  Probably the most pathetic loosie in the country. How anyone could even consider him for test rugby is absurd.

Unless of course you have race issues, always playing the race card when spanked by a superior brain, ...  and of course need to get the demographics in your team right ... then by all means go for it.

While your at it why not include Jantjies, Mapoe, Ndungane brothers, De Jongh, Aplon, Rhule etc ...

I mean let's be fair huh??? Talent is not the issue here. We have to give all the people a shot at representing the country ... right??

Mike for a start Kolisi is playing in a losing side and in a pack that is being dominated. He has had two solid performances given the circumstances. Kolisi has been one of the better Stormers loosies in a losing side.

Arno Botha is a class act and I have always said he should be in the Bok mix. However Botha is not a 6 and Ludeke has already confirmed this, lamenting that part of the Bulls problem against the Force was a lack of a fetcher. They are hoping for the return of Stegman.

Arno has mostly played 8, but is equally at home at 7. Look out for Jean Cook as well, I remember being impressed with him for the Baby Boks two seasons ago. He had a great debut last weekend.

Kolisi is a quality player and has to be a contender for a Bok spot. He was great at times in last years S15 side but is having to play a more defensive role this year as his pack is struggling.

Saffex

I am not so sure that the fetcher roll specifically assigned to no 6 loosies is really as important as it was before th latest changes to the rules.   In effect the only player that can affect a turnover nowadays is the tackler himself - provided he gets up and separate himself from the tackled player - or another player immediately adjacent to the tackled player - otherwise any attempt at a turnover results in a penalty against the tackler of adjacent teammate - since mauls are formed extremely rapidly.

That means in essence that every player immediately adjacent to the tackler can be a fetcher.   The lattr situation to an extent limit the role of the opnside flank substantially and that is where a player like Brussow got blown up repeatedly in his latest Super 15 match.

Ny contention basically is that a no 6 -

*   must be a very speedy player;

*   Must have the bodily strength to stand up in a fetcher situation (that applies to every player on the field in fact);

*   Must be a strong ball carrier; and

*   must be a top defender

I think the turnover (fetcher) roll is being over-emphasized under the latest circumstamces.

Kolisi started off like a house on fire last year - and despite your impression to the contrary - he started fading out in his later games before injury.   I think he is not really top class - but will watch out for him in his subsequent games.   Going forward with the ball in hand 4 times in two games are sub-standard to say the least.   The fifith time he tried to do just that - he lost possession of the ball - indeed a negative. 

He might remain in the Stormers starting line-up - I am not altogether sure of that one though - but will remain on the look out for him in future.

 South Africa is in a favourable position to have many good lose forward players.  SARU is at fault because they allow poor coaches to mix the players around.  Here players are moved all the time from 6 to 7 to 8 and back.  This ringa ringa rosies is causing the players not to specialise in one position.  In South Africa the coaches have too much power and there should be a line of command to the national coach otherwise we will never be good as a country like the New Zealanders.

Kolisi is far down the order and only achieves what he does because he is assisted by the guilt-laws, nê.

Mike, the game has not changed that much. The openside flanker still has the quickest route to an attacking back off the scrum, so its his role to effect a turnover once his back has tackled his man.

Ludeke says his Bulls side is short of a specialist fetcher and that is part of the reason they struggled against the Force, so you are wrong, a true fetcher is still a must if you are to succeed, look no further than Braid for the Blues.

Saffex

Braid is no doubt a star loosie - but I checked the stats on him.   He really did not show up that well in the Hurricanes game - but in the Crusader game he was excellent.   However, in the two games he played in he only affected only one turn-over in possession.   His strong points were in fact scoring a try, his ball carrying and his tackling. 

I also checked the Pocock stats.   In the two games he played in this year - he did not successfully affect a turnover and got enalized four times because of attenpted turnovers.   Not really what one is looking for - is it?

Still not convinced by your argument about the fetcher issue.  Ludeke is a dinosaur so believe him if you want to - I am more in line with Meyer's thinking on this score, namely that ultimately turnovers is not the real thing - there are imporant issues besides that one. 

Coetzee's offensive stats on Saturday were much more bleak. Nine runs for a total of three mtres gained and the ball turned over three times! At times he was tossed around like a rag doll.

Coetzee did make a productive 18 tackles for 1 missed....but what is his role? He doesn't have the power or pace to be a runner. He is a non factor on the deck. We can't have a guy who only tackles.

Frankly while I have seen a few nice things from the younger loosies, none of them have shown the horse power, the sheer physical presence, to be test candidates.

Mozart

You must have picked up that "tossed like a rag doll" expression from somewhere - like from Saffex in respect of Jordaan.   His stateent turned up to be BS and I am afraid that is the case in repect to Coetzee on Saturday as well.  Be objective please if you can.

Coetzee had a poor game on Saurday - nobody would argue about that.   He lost possession of the ball twice in the game and made one turnover in possession.   Tosing him around like a rag doll nobody did.   I agree he should have done much better in carrying the ball - but that is as far as reality goes in this case - nothing further.

Well Mike, it not only about actually turning the ball over, its about slowing down the breakdown........so to measure a fetcher on pure turnovers is wrong.

Meyer is hardly the model with a 67% record now is he?

Moz, Coetzee remains a quality loosie and at 106kg and growing, there is no issue with what he has to offer as a loosie. All these big guys get bashed about, its not often that one sees one forward take another out. Hell Alberts did that a few times last year, then went awol. Jacques Potgieter at 114kg makes little impression, its not like Elstadt at 118kg goes smashing through everyone.

What Coetzee does is offer ball carrying skills and a high work rate. He has more pace than the majority of lossies out there and his power is up there with the rest.

Dave, you should know by now that once Moffie poisons his mind against a certain player . . . usually for some trivial once-off incident or else because you rate the player . . . there's no going back. Moffie will always hate the player and he will find new and original ways to discredit him.

Well Mike I recall somebody, maybe Bekker, ripping him back with one arm.....hence the rag doll. Sorry chaps but I just don't see the emergence of a genuine test loosie in Coetzee or Kolisi. I haven't seen enough of Botha to judge.

Mozart at his best.   Saw one incident and that determines a career    De Jongh scored a try in the CC final - so suddenly he is the best center selection - that despite that for the previous two yeara he did nothing and in the subsequent tests was absolute rubbish.   Bismarck is knocked back by Etzebeth in one case and my question is - is Bismarck suddenly also a rag doll? 

You know Mozart - I respect you but whe you come up with rubbish like this - I just cannot uderstand it.    I know you dislike all younger players and want the rugby geriatrix in teams - but sometimes you nitpick to justify nonsencical comments. 

On the contrary I'm totally rational about player choices. I picked young Coetzee as one of 5 potential future Boks early last year....along with Goosen, Jordaan, Etzebeth and Kitshoff. I have since concluded:

1) Etzebeth is a genuine super star.

2) Jordaan is a very talented runner, he is still in with a chance, but he may not have enough presence.

3) Goosen is a mixture of physical gifts and Gaffie like mental issues. This one could go either way.

4) Coetzee is topping out at S15 level....he doesn't have the physical gifts to impose at test level.

5) Kitshoff likewise is not a strong enough scrummager to apply crucial loosehead pressure in tests.

You guys can go on and on about these players....but those opinions are consistent with what we see on the field. Not the view through rose coloured glasses.

Apart from Fury who I still believe is overrated and who I felt was better as a roving wing.... I can't think of one case where I have said a player wont make it in tests and was proven wrong.

Mozart

Short and selective memory - what about De Jongh that you were championjing on this Board in October?   On the other hand your first comments on Etzebeth was negative - I can clearly remember that.  Even after th English test series you questioned his ability - that only changed gradually after that period.    

I do not judge players on one incident or one game  - I look at them after a series and then make up my mind about them.   I have never said Kitshoff is Springbok material  for instance.   You make disparaging remarks on young players - label them and then say they will never make it.   Wait for a season and then make comments the way I do - that is the objective way it should be done.   When a player has a poor game I criticize him - when he has a good game I praise him - when he failed over a season I will express dounts over his future prospects. 

According to your comments on younger players nobody will ever make the Springbok team and we will soon have a team of 35-yerar olds unable to beat Outer Mongolia and Namibia.        . 

Let me help you.......I said..... I haven't called  a player  NOT Test Material.....who has subsequently turned out to be a permanent member of the Boks. In Etzebeth's case, I simply said his English performances were still marginal, and he had much to learn.....which he did. Never once did I say he wasn't potentially a fine test lock.

Last year I said Potgieter, Werner Kruger, Greyling, Mvovo, Taute , Jantjies and Daniels would never make it ....they didn't.

But it's not rocket science. We have 15 starters in the Bok team....of which about 10 might be called settled members of the team. These guys have careers of 5 to 10 years as settled Boks. That means we add one, at most two settled Boks a year.

You guys with your lists of 7, 8 9 new certain  Boks are on something....one at best two will make the grade. The challenge isn't to identify all the good young players....anybody can do that. The challenge is to see those special qualities in a few unique players that will make them test class.

Many a time I make the error of seeing a player as permanent Bok who doesn't make it.....but fatal flaws are easy to spot if you don't have rose coloured spectacles.

Moffie, when I think of some of your hilarious blunders . . . wanking on about losers like Meyer Bosman (at flyhalf), Solly Tyibilika and Marius Joubert  but not rating the likes of Jaque Fourie, Henry Honiball and Marcel Coetzee . . . I find it hard to believe you're still trying to pretend you've ever got any calls right!

Stick to boasting and behaving like a little child, Moffie, those are the only things you do well.

ROTFLMAO!

Marcel Coetzee was dropped.....and  how about your picks old chap:

Pretorius at flyhalf, Russell at flyhalf, Brad Barritt at flyhalf, Rose at flyhalf, Ruan Pienaar at flyhalf

Watson as Bok captain

Deysel ahead of Juan Smith

Carstens at prop

Brits at hooker

Skeate at lock.

Ndunganes on both wings

Rory Kockott on the bench.

You can't see the value of Schalk and Etzebeth

Your picks are a calamity ....a long string of laughable . You never could see what was really happening, always influenced by the flavour of the day.

Moffie, the difference is, I'm not making things up and lying through my rotting yellow teeth.

At least half of your claims are barefaced lies . . . but go ahead and stamp your foot and get all indignant . . . I know what a deceitful and dishonest little loser you are.

On the contrary those picks are right in front of me.....which ones are you trying to walk away from, perhaps I can help. But be warned the last time you told me I lied abut your RWC comments, I produced the posting....and I will again.

Moffie, as I've told you before, putting quotes around something you sucked out of your thumb doesn't authenticate it. Put up a screenshot or else shut your lying trap.

I would never have called for Schalk Brits, the Ndungane twins, Ross Skeate, Brad Barritt or Ruan Pienaar as a flyhalf or Earl Rose in any position. Those are all barefaced lies.

10 Ruan Pienaar (I'd have no problem with Peter Grant or Earl Rose).....posted 4/28/2009...under the heading "My Bok team".

Also in that team:

7 Jean Deysel ( I don't mind PdV retaining Juan Smith, but I'd prefer Deysel)

Also in that team another stupid call suggesting Smit could play tighthead:

3 Jannie du Plessis (or John Smit)

Coming back to you at all. Dave said :

"Good Side....my only changes to that" and then posted 6 changes.

It's all true old chap, I know it looks really stupid in retrospect, but you said it.

Waaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha! Even if that was true, aren't you a bit embarrassed that you store my posts for 4 years?

Moffie (01/04/2012): "I'd really like to exterminate all the black people in the world!"

See, it's not that hard.

No I'm not embarrassed......it's the only way to deal with liars like you. But I see you are trying to change the subject, not surprisingly, because nobody has a worse record for player picks.

Kolisi is black.

Therefore he is a better player.

Some players are not at the point in their careers whereby a debate on whether they are good enough to play internationally should take place.

Kolisi is one of those players. Not even close to consistent or good enough. Lets move on.

The only fit 6 the Stormers have right now that warrants debate is playing hooker for them! Schalk to return, Kolisi to carry some water until Schalk says he has had enough!

 What nonsense. Kolisi was easily the best SA 6 in last years S15 and one of the best loosies in general - he won an award if memory serves me correctly. Had the average Meyer played it fair, he would have rewarded Kolisi with a test cap against England as he should have done with CJ Stander. Instead he decided Jaques Potgieter was the answer, with Coetzee out of position at 6.

Schalk is done and was never a true 6. If he wants to make the Stormers side he will have to challenge Elstadt for 7 - but knowing Coetzee he will cock it up and drop Kolisi for Schalk

Mozart

You really are funny.   Coetzee was last year rated as the best loosie at 7 during the Super 15 and even seleced ahead of McCawas player of the series in that position  even by the New Zealand experts.  He is then selected by Meyer as a loosie at the age of 20.   Very young for a forward to be selected.   Did an excellent job on defence in all the test he played in - but Meyer realized he needs some more experience  and brought in Louw - but consistently kept Coetzee on the bench.   

Louw made a statement afterwards that Coetrzee is very good and that he is helping him gaining expereience in all levels of the play.    Mozart from the start shouted his normal anti-younger player campaign and the fact that Coetzee is on the bench at this very  early stage of his career suddenly is used as a reason why he should never succeed in his career.   What a load of utter BS.   A 21 year old on the Springbok bench is no disgrace - now is it?   He this year has one game where he did show some negatives - which we all recognize as not acceptable - and now suddenly he is a "rag doll".

Let me get back to the issue of juniors being identified early as to having future potential.   It does happen that some juniors are selected for the Springboks too early - because of massive potential shown in Super 15 -but then having to be replaced because of injury - like was the case in Goosen.   Mozart dreamt up some story about him being poor in defence - proven total BS and that he was nervous insofar as his goal kicking is concerned because he missed two penalties (proved subsequently to be due to a heel injury that made it painful for him to kick at goal) - and then before this series suddenly shouting Gaffie Du Toit.   I still think wait for a full Super 15 season and then come up wih an assessment - not one or two average games after a long injury lay -off.   In the Pretoria game he was excellent as a flyhalf  and before injury in the Soweto test he did nothing wrong - but Mozart labelled him then end went on endlessly about him being a poor defender etc.

I never said that all the young players showing some spark in their Under 20 years are really gpoing to be the future Springboks - that is Saffex's idea - I say that about 10% of such players over years may become eligible - depending on sustained performances on senior level.   I do not write off players or labelled them after one or two incidnts and then say they are not going to succeed in future - that is the Mozart way of identifying players.

Take two players for instance you have commented on:- 

*   One of th players is De Jongh.   After two years of showing nothing in attack and all kinds of poor performances - he scored a practised try in Super 15 and suddenly the try is the best one scored the last decade and he is a must for the Springboks.  He afterwards became the toast of the twon as far as you are concerned and all stats are not at all relevant and better still ignored by you , but stats are always used as a yardstick in all other cases to prove points.   After two dismal performances in tests - follow the great silence by Mozart on him.   When is the pro-De Jongh campaign going to start up again?   In two years time after by accident he scores another try?

*   The other player is Jordaan.  He did wery well and after two games in which Francois Steyn completely hogged the ball and virtually never passed a ball to him - thus only having to defend all the time (which he did very well opposite De Villiers in particular - he is being labelled again as questionable.   Give th guy a chance with ball in hand and get Steyn to pass balls in backline movements - before starting to sound like Saffex.   Problem is he is one of the younger players that is on the point of being written off without a shred of supporting evidence.

My advice still is look at players over a season and then decide on whether they make the grade and do not look at single incidents in a game and then star labelling them.   The latter is as silly as some of Saffex's comments on players.

l 

Saffex

I do not share your viewpoints on a basis for seection of players like Kolisi as a Springbok.   Players cannot be selected based on a single incident in one game on senior level or one performances in one or two games on Super 15 level.   The issue is sustained high level performances throughout the season on Super 15 level.

Kolisi was really very good in the first couple of games he played on Super 15 level last year.   He then started fading out and by the time he was injured he was not a shadow of the player showing that early promise.   In the first two games this year he showed nothing - he was on par with what he showed in his later games in Super 15 last year before injury.  

Nodbody can make a statement that he is at this point in tme ready to be selected as a Springbok - he has to prove himself over a series before a statement that he is selectable can be made.   Any other suggestion is just not on.   Based on overall 2012-13 performances - he is definitely not ready for selection and the best we can do is to watch him coming through on Super 15 level.   He has all the possibilities to show his values - but if he is continueing to play as he did in the past two games - the danger is that he may not be selected to the Stormers starting team and his opportunities will be reduced drastically.

ou maaaaaaik I would not point to myself all the time as a model of board perfection re selections. Was it not you who trashed the out of form Morne while sensible posters simply acknowledged he was out of form. Now after two matces even snapster says he has been the best flyhalf thus far.

You one sided rants repetitive rants against de Jongh and Jantjes are legenday as models of a lack of balance -you give them no credit whatsoever and rubbish them to the extreme.

Please try and get a realisitic appreciation of your limitations and throw away your delusions of grandeur. At the momenmt you are sounding as sanctimonious as ou rooitwit when he was blubbering away about mongs in the most insincere manner imaginable. Hilarious really!!   

Hahahahahahaha ou rootiwt truly nailed by Moz. wise move, if you ahve the time, to record ou rooitwits posts for moments of hillarity like these!

Boklogic you are spot on.

As for Coetzee he does lack clout and is not a top 6. He is young and will still get better. However I do think, like snapster, that 8 could be his position. From what I have seen at times is that he has a good turn of speed. He also has huge heart and energy. Certainly a promising youngster.

Kolisi has a huge amount to prove. Deon Fourie is a far better 6 - the best in SA particulary if Schalk is going to play 7. When Tiaan gets back expect to see Kolisi on the bench - if ou Allisatair has any sense!!!

Beeno

I like jokers and you are indeed one.   I really enjoy it to see somebody make a real joke of himself and you have a uique ability in the relevant regard.

First of all I do not discrdit players - they do it all themselves and when rubbish is written on this Board I have to point it out when necessary.   Let us deal with the players mentioned by you - the joker:-

Morne Steyn

Steyn had a very poor goal kickig record last year - bar for when he played at Loftus Versfeld - there he was always tops.   Despite the try he scored on Saturday - hisfourth try in all the years of Super Rugby playing - he is really not an attacking flyhalf - never was.  His main attribute was always kicking balls to try and get an advantage for his team - but last year his strategic kicking was on par with his goalkickig - merely a tool to hand over balls to the opposition.   He in 2012 had a year he would rather forget about in playing senior rugby.   Now to this year.  He played in two home games - one game against a hopelessly poor Stormers team and another against the weakest team in Super 15.   In both games he was very good    Now for the real test this coming weekend playing against the Blues in Auckland.   I suspect Steyn will be Steyn and kick balls whenever he can handing over possession to the opposition - I really expect a disaster- especially if his goal kicking boot is also left behind in Pretoria.    I am not going to make statements made on one or two games this year and then start shouting and screaming.   Steyn has not past the test yet - he has to prove in a full season that he deserves selection.

Juan de Jongh

Statistically De Jongh was the poorest attacking center in the whole of Super 15 last year and over a two year period playing at center he scored two tries on Super 15 level.   He has a record of being tackled back and of losing and knocking on balls - as well as giving away penalties.   Just go and look at his stats and you will find it all there.   I have always said that he is a good defender.   In essence I have repeatedly said that he more than anybody else was the contributor to the dead Stormers backline of the past two seasons.   in the famous CC final he did score his third try in two years on that level - hugh praise - but he also gave away two converted penalties (hushed up).   The situation remains - De Jongh is De Jongh remaining a very poor player on attack.   Do not take my words on it - look it up in his stats.  Somebody must point out the real situation against the howls of praise coming from jokers like you - and unfortunately I find myself in that position.

Jantjies

After all the wonderful things written by Saffex on Jantjies - I started to study his performances.   In extremely rare cases he showed flashes of good play - but a number of major problems soon came to the fore.   I listed those and warned that his only really positive side is his kicking at goal when not under pressure.   That warings were constantly ignored and you and Saffex kept up the refrain that Jantjies is the best thing that could happen to Stormer rugby.   First two games for the Stormers he did show up all the things I have written about him.   The flash of brilliance was a practised move to kick the ball for follow-up by Aplon - the rest of the negatives was as evident as ever in the two performances thus far.   Who - but I - have to bring the jokers back to reality when they go lyical in their stupidity.

I hate to do what I said above - namely to be negative about players.   But then - I am also a realist and see rubbish when it is dished up by players.   I give  credit where credit is due (I did so after the two recent performancs by Steyn) - and criticize players when necessary.   And I am firmly on ground - not in the world of make-believe so evident in the jokers.  

Mike you would have to be really stupid if you thought I based my Bok selections on one incident - get a grip man. Kolisi had a great S15 last season and should have been awarded a Bok cap.

He has started this season well in a losing Stormers side. Kolisi will be a Bok sooner than later, watch this space.

Saffex

With all due respect - a really good player stands out even if his team is not showing their best.   In the Sharks game the forward play was in reality 50-50 and not really as one-sided as people think.  Yes there was a couple of poor scrumming efforts - but otherwise it was as indicated.

In that environment Kolisi showed less than any of the other loosies in the game - and I really would not say h was good.   At best average and definitely not the player he was in the early rounds last year.

Crap, Kolisi was better than Vermeulen and Kankowski and was on par with Coetzee and Elstadt. Deysel was the best of the loosies.

Safeex

Since you asked for it by making another wild statement - I will give you the stats on the platers mentioned for the Sharks - Stormers game only:- 

Kolisi

Carry th ball forward          -   2

Tackles made                    -   6 

Vermeulen

Carry the ball forward       -   3

Tackles made                   -   2

Turn-overs won                 -   1

Line outs  won                   -   1

Kankowski

Was a bit of a mixed bag

Carry the bll forward        -     2

Turnovers won                 -     1

Tackles                             -     8

Line outs                           -     1

Defensive ball catches     -      1

Lose possession              -      1

Penalties given away       -      1

Coetzee

Had by his standards a poor game

Going Forward                -       1

Turnovers                        -       1

Tackles                            -       7

Loose possession            -       2

Elstadt

Going Forward                 -        3

Tackles made                   -       2

Line outs won                   -        2

Penalty Given away         -        1

From the above it is evident that Kolisi showed nothing to distiguish him from the other players mentioned by you.  He was in fact passive and his contributions really minimal.    He carriied the ball forward twice  and made 6 tackles - not a single tuenover of a ball or anything else in the game.

The other players were much more active and tried harder than Kolisis did.   That is a fact of life.

For a start Mike, stats dont impress me at all as they provide no context and secondly those stats clearly show that Vermeulen, Kankowski, Coetzee and Elstadt were no better than Kolisi as I said originally in effect.

The other players did NOT try harder and were NOT more active........would love to know how you measure the trying harder bit - good one Mike keep the comedy up

Saffex

Stats don't impress you - because "they provide no context'.   all players were playing in the same environment in this particular case.

Kolisi did not make any turn-overs in possession, won no line-outs and did not do some of the things that the players as listed did do.   Your initial comments were that Kolisi was better than Vermeulen and Kankowski and that really was BS.

I do not think any of the loosies other than Deysel was really up to standard - and neither was Kolisi bettr than any of the others.   You always scream about loosies playing at 6 being fetchers - he fetched nothing and in fact made very little impression. 

I think he may be on the bench for Saturday - doubt whether he would be in the starting line up 

Mike, do you know what context means? Do stats tell you that when a player gains a certain number of metres per match, whether that player had a clean run in making those metres, ie he was put into space by another player and just had to run 30m without a defender challenging him. Does it tell you that in the metres gained by a player, that the player stepped 3 defenders in the process?

You see Mike stats are a waste of time, they provide no context. They are like a bikini, they show alot but not everything. Of course Kolisi did not take line-out ball, they dont throw to him for crying out loud.

Based on my view of the game and not according to stupid stats, Kolisi had a better game than Vermeulen and Kankowski, was on a par with Elstadt and Coetzee - end of