Sasha & Esterhuizen

I thought Esterhuizen looked good outside of Sasha, more so than Delande.

The backline just looked more lively with lots of options. Esterhuizen was also keeping up with play giving Sasha more options.

Esterhuizen is strong brute of a man. He almost got over the line dragging about four Welsh players along the ground.

He is also fast and skillful, given his size.

Delande was ok at outside center. This centre combination looked promising, but would be interesting to see how it fares against stronger opposition.

It is not clear how more game time Willemse will get at 12.

The poor Welsh were beaten into submission, conceding their highest defeat ever - conceding 70+ points, and scored 0.

We beat em 98-13 back in nineties ... Rassie scored a try

Delande was ok at outside center. This centre combination looked promising, but would be interesting to see how it fares against stronger opposition.

DDA gets away with a lot at 12 that he won't at 13. Think of how Kriel and Am plays - 13 is the guy who rushes and cuts off the outside. There's no way DDA has the sharpness of mind or the speed to do that. I won't consider him at 13 for the same reason I won't consider Andre at 13, even though Andre is a more proactive player. Seeing the two side by side yesterday against the same opposition, the most level playing field you can ask for, the contrast in what they bring to the table couldn't be more clear. Andre dominated and created, DDA couldn't get himself or anyone else going.

DDA's inclusion is a joke at this point.

Chucking bad passes, giving away stupid penalties and being otherwise invisible.

Meanwhile AE carries the team on his back.

Agreed, Pakie, the truth is very clear to see.

...unless of course your're a province boytjie

Are you still in Pofadder Pakie ?

I pass through Pofadder every now and then but never lived there Blobbie.

AE makes any 10 look good. The man stands at 115 kg and 195 cm. Bigger than most back 3 forwards and have the pace of a back. He creates so much space. Players like Marcus smith looked world class with him at inside Center, but then when he played for England he looked mediocre. The same can be said of Libbok, he has his best game,es when he has AE on the inside. We saw that Sasha game went up 10 levels and looked more in control and had more time to time his passes and play.

AE has been at the centre for our most meme games again stands big team. When he played against NZ at Twickenham and we got our highest score. Then he got selected again to play the 2nd test against NZ this year and we blew them off the park. He then starts again the last game and we were on our way to hit 80 points before Eben brain implosion.

Rassie need to start backing the man. With Dud and Jessie our back play dies. We saw against Ireland that our wingers for no ball and we should have put 30 points against the even Dud had one of his best games

Is there a lot of puff adder snakes in Pofadder?:) I’ve always wondered how the town got its name. I haven’t been there yet.

DDA was fairly quiet yesterday. He did take the ball up a few times, but in stark contrast, AE was much more successfully involved in play.

AE needs Moodie as his Centre Partner.

Poor Mampara Plumster thinks the Welshies were real test match class opposition! Plumster thinks Andre would have done just as well if we had been playing France, Ireland NZ or England.

Moreover he assumes if Allende has been at 12 he couldn't have also done well.

Andre has become a valuable Bok. His performances at flank have been great. He is getting over the ball well and making steals and should start a test at 6 against top opposition.

I would anticipate Rassie giving Willemse a run at 12 next season. Fassie will be back so it is likely to happen.

Please note the praise Matfiled. a smart operator, heaped on Allende yesterday.

The smearing of Allende by Mampara Plumster and other hapless members of the MGU is a disgrace. Once again the vast majority of the Rugby Community would laugh them out of court on this one.

Mind you given their self importance and arrogance they think that because they alone rate Allende rightly that makes them the very smartest people in the Rugby Community. Bwahahahahaha sidesplitting stuff from Mampara Plumster and the MGU!

"…unless of course your a province boytjie”

Thats uncalled for Plum, deliberately trying to stir shit on a Sunday? No man… :)

The town of Pofadder was named after a Koranna chief named Klaas Pofadder, not the venomous snake. While "pofadder" is the Afrikaans word for "puff adder," historical accounts confirm the town's name is a tribute to the Koranna leader, who was active in the area and died there. It was briefly renamed Theronsville, but the original name was later restored.

Great show of the Springboks against a team equal to the Wtigatwortel Fontain no 3 team, N team can learnf ronm such a march despite all the site ravings.

"Great show of the Springboks against a team equal to the Wtigatwortel Fontain no 3 team, N team can learnf ronm such a march despite all the site ravings."

...care to explain why DDA was so shit against such a shit team?

That you say Allende was shit against the welsh team only shows your bias Mampara Plumster. It reflects your hopeless bias against Allende that has being going on for many years.

Its almost as bad as Mampara Mozzietards campaign against Du Toit - possibly the greatest 7 to play the game. You get ridiculous and then you get totally absurd.

Esterhuizen tactorored his way through the Welshie defence. I have seen Allende also make many meters against stronger opposition.

Being included in the Bok set up and getting more Bok game time even on the flank has given Esterhuizen more confidence and its showing.

I have nothing against Andre and view him today as one of our most valuable players because he is a genuine hybrid and makes our bench more of a weapon.

Personally I think he could have made a great number 6..

If Rassie started him at 1 I wouldn't complain and would give him another chance to show the 12 shirt belongs to him. But as I have said Willemse is the guy to give a run at 6. That is going to be an interesting call because Willemse is also our best 15. But Fassi is a good player that can improve and become an outstanding 15. That is how I see all this.

What I will not do is smear Allende who has over 90 tests Being part of a team winning everything that a team can win and who has had a very good Bok career. You should do likewise Mampara Plumster! Come on oak you can do better!

Esterhozen demonstrated with crystal clarity what we have been missing in a team that was dominant in many areas….a ball carrier who could reset the advantage line forward. Neither of our two primary ball carriers…Dud Allende or Dud Toit have been able to do that. And added to that toothlessness by being incapable of offloading. We have had no phase game.

The incredible thing is not only have we fooled ourselves, but we have managed to fool so many talking heads.

"What I will not do is smear Allende who has over 90 tests Being part of a team winning everything that a team can win and who has had a very good Bok career. You should do likewise Mampara Plumster! Come on oak you can do better!"

Beenz, I get that they are talking up AE...he is a fine player, but the constant smearing of DdA...and a few others...just as ridiculous as Maaik's rants against AE :-)

To a fool it might appear so.

Draad...we don't smear him.

I call what I see and I see nothing from him.

And I'll ask you to show me what you see and you'll get all vague and start telling me what other people say.

In yesterday's game he was the only player that made zero impact. Hooker, who is a total noob outshone him. Andre made him look pedestrian. Everybody did excellent things...everybody but Dumbian.

Loyalty is form of blindness.

Same old, same old.

The defence looks good when Delande is at 12. However, Esterhuizen brings more on attack.

Having such a strong ball carrier outside Sasha makes the Boks dangerous, and the backline runs better with Esterhuizen at 12.

DbD not knocking Allende who has earned every cap he has received but Esterhuizen makes the backline explosive without a doubt.

Just his agility, size and power makes it difficult to stop him and above all of those positive attributes he has on more that one occasion show remarkable strength and power when in the forwards as a flank as well.

The guy is truly awesome.

Okay, here is a challenge for the Bean...

Go and find us a game, against any opposition...from Romania to Georgia or Portugal, where DDA's post-contact meters were higher than Andre's were on Saturday.

Keep in mind that while Wales are terrible right now, they are still a T1 nation and I'm allowing you to include non T1 nations in your comparison.

Nice and easy, simply show us the evidence.

No evidence shall be forthcoming. Instead we'll get;

1) Nick Mallet says, Matfield says, Pollard says...

2) I'm not going to entertain this

3) DDA has been selected and that is proof enough - He has X amount of caps.

4) Anyone that can't see how great DDA is doesn't know rugby

5) A change of topic or a personal attack

And all of this will come from the same people that apparently prefect "facts over feelings".

lol, you jokers

"To a fool it might appear so."

LOL, ouch!

"Draad...we don't smear him."

No you incessantly complains about everything DdA....complete obsession with you.

"DbD not knocking Allende who has earned every cap he has received but Esterhuizen makes the backline explosive without a doubt."

You maybe not...

"Just his agility, size and power makes it difficult to stop him and above all of those positive attributes he has on more that one occasion show remarkable strength and power when in the forwards as a flank as well.

The guy is truly awesome."

Indeed, he is a fine player and on current form certainly deserves to be the first choice 12 for the Bokke.

nn

Daar's hy Bob! Let's focus on the positives!

We do focus on the positives. See;

Plethora of almost everyone raving about Moodie, Hooker, Sacha, AE, Willemse, Wiese, RG, Marx, PSDT, Eben, Ox, Wilco, Kolisi...hell i've found myself philosophising on here about the impact of Kolisi's contributions to the zoomed out picture of South African rugby.

You just don't like that there is a group of people who agree that DDA doesn't actually make the grade. And tis made worse by the fact that AE's performance on Saturday, and every other time he's played this year, has been very good.

Cumon now, you know that DDA would not have done what AE did on Saturday. And it's not like he hasn't had the opportunity to show us it this year. When the hell last was DDA near contention for a MOTM performance. And AE was the guy who had a shoe-in for the award in our best win against the ABs in a good while too - he was massively influential.

You could argue that the DDA carried the French win with 14 men - but I have to say he didn't really stand out for me.

The question is whether we agree on what DDA isn't. Here is my list of things that I don't think he is;

-Fast - he obviously lacks pace - Roos is quicker and has more acceleration than DDA.

-A creator or converter...his low try count and his even lower assist count speak for themselves.

-A support runner - because i never see him upfield and unless the play happens in front of him he's just never there - see AE supporting Kolisi's break to set Cheslin up for the try in Wellington. You don't see DDA in those types of sequences. Nevermind orchestrating them, simply being involved, he's just not there. You could point to the offload in the Irish game, but that's a lonely island of one. Think about how many times Willemse was "there" in the Wellington game too - after starting at 12, he made plays, scored tries and carried the momentum.

-An off-loader - cos ja, he simply never does.

And so I'm left to assume that DDA is a tackler and rucker. I feel like I'm justified in thinking that since the evidence that would be required for me to consider him a good all-round back is missing.

In the end, the DDA debate is about the team's chosen style of play - Rassie has a specific use for him and it works - see WC and other victories, is what you'll say. And you'd be justified in saying that.

For me, whenever Andre is used the team looks more dominant and scores more points. I prefer the type of dominance Andre brings, and the momentum that comes with it, to the the plodding style. At this stage, with all the evidence in hand, the DDA fan club have run out of fingers to plug holes with. The case for his inclusion diminishes game by game.

You focus way too much on DdA...where there's obsession, balance lacks.

"You focus way too much on DdA...where there's obsession, balance lacks."

Well, I've made longer positive posts than you about many guys on this list...in fact, most of them.

"Moodie, Hooker, Sacha, AE, Willemse, Wiese, RG, Marx, PSDT, Eben, Ox, Wilco, Kolisi"

Poor Plumster is obsessed with this matter.

So much so he is blinded to Allende's strengths and to Andre's weaknesses.

The Mampara thinks Allende is slow. Hahahaha. That is why he has played wing. Nothing wrong with his place and he certainly isn't slower than Esterhuizen and would most likely be faster.

Allende also has better skills, grubbers, distribution etc.

Allende is also a great fletcher, good over the ball. Esterhuizen is now doing this as well.

To make his point ou Mampara Plumster ignores the fact Andre has a more limited skill set. His only real advantage over Allende is he is a slightly better tractor.

So what do we get from poor Mampara Plumster. We get a never ending smear camiaign against this fine Bok closing in on 100 tests and rated by one and all apart from MGU members.

We get smears and bias against Allende and unadultetrd praise for Esterhuizen.

Draad is absolutely right. What we don't get from Mampara Plumster is balanced, fair assessments.

But don't listen to other Boks, don't quote leading pundits and what others think. What do they know. Listen to the MGU and in due course you too will become a hapless Mampara. Bwahahahahahaha.

If Andre played in blue and white hoops you'd be his biggest cheerleader and fluffer Beeno1 and you know it.

"Poor Plumster is obsessed with this matter.

So much so he is blinded to Allende's strengths and to Andre's weaknesses.

The Mampara thinks Allende is slow. Hahahaha. That is why he has played wing. Nothing wrong with his place and he certainly isn't slower than Esterhuizen and would most likely be faster.

Allende also has better skills, grubbers, distribution etc.

Allende is also a great fletcher, good over the ball. Esterhuizen is now doing this as well.

To make his point ou Mampara Plumster ignores the fact Andre has a more limited skill set. His only real advantage over Allende is he is a slightly better tractor.

So what do we get from poor Mampara Plumster. We get a never ending smear camiaign against this fine Bok closing in on 100 tests and rated by one and all apart from MGU members.

We get smears and bias against Allende and unadultetrd praise for Esterhuizen.

Draad is absolutely right. What we don't get from Mampara Plumster is balanced, fair assessments.

But don't listen to other Boks, don't quote leading pundits and what others think. What do they know. Listen to the MGU and in due course you too will become a hapless Mampara. Bwahahahahahaha.

"

All I'll say is...show us the numbers.

Saying Plum is “obsessed” with DDA is not analysis, it’s a tactic.

Draad keeps dropping these short labels with no rugby substance behind them, and then stepping back while others use it as fuel.

That’s not debate, that’s steering a narrative. In my opinion, that’s calculated and it’s dishonest.

Plum isn’t obsessed. He’s comparing two players in the same position, weighing up the pro’s and con’s. That’s a legitimate rugby discussion.

What’s missing from the DDA defenders is actual evidence:

Where are the supporting lines he runs

Where are the offloads that create opportunities

Where are the try assists or line breaks

Where is the playmaking

One or two grubbers suddenly makes him “more skilled”? Show the matches where those grubbers actually led to points or momentum.

Most of the time it’s just lost possession.

DDA is effective in a specific, narrow, forward dominant, collision based game plan.

No one is denying that. But that does not automatically make him the more skilled or more complete centre.

AE shows:

better distribution

better awareness

better support play

more involvement across phases

more creativity in the channel

That is visible on the field if you watch the matches without bias.

Instead of facts, we get labels, ridicule, and emotional loyalty to a game plan that suited a certain era.

That’s not critical thinking, but just following the hype train.

If Draad or anyone else wants to call it obsession, then back it up with actual rugby examples.

Otherwise it’s just stirring from the sidelines, not honest debate.

So I must after all your years of smearing of Allende go running on your errand to find numbers.

Won't happen..

Esterhuizen did fuck all special outside Sacha other than play a strong physical game against a depleted Welsh side

Get a fucking grip

Wales does look depleted, Fair point. If that’s true, why didn’t DDA, excel against a depleted team??

Even if 13 isn’t his regular spot, he should’ve made a mark against a weakened side, not??

What did he do instead? Took the ball up a couple of times, went straight for contact, formed rucks… nothing more.

No line breaks, no offloads, no space creation. Compare that to AE, who carried, linked with teammates, created momentum, and made things happen.

Just because Wales was “depleted” doesn’t mean someone can’t be measured properly.

They’re still a Tier 1 Rugby Nation. And if we hold AE to that standard, we should hold DDA to it too.

So calling AE’s game “nothing special” is clearly missing the point.

de Allende had a good game but was far less involved sitting at 13 than AE who at 12 took it up in contact plus often got involved with the forwards thanks to his new found forwards role

By nothing special I mean he hardly ripped the Welsh defence apart through skill, though attacking space - it was all physical stuff and very effective

He did exactly what DA does at 12, with a bit more impact given the weak opposition

This is the reality not the revelation that AE is somehow so much better than DA outside Sacha

Esterhozen and Dud Allende against Australia and the same opposing centers:

…..passes…runs…metres…breaks…defenders beaten…offloads

E…….10……….10…...72………….2………………2………………….2

Dud….6………….7..….17………....0………………0…………………..1

This has been obvious since Twickenham vs the ABs in 2023, Dud Allende is like a poor life insurance policy

Nonsense - stats tell us very little

AE has been solid at test level at 12, never a standout and certainly not better than DA

DA given the time invested in him at test level, has been more assertive than AE

AE would have been as good as DA at test level had he been Rassie’s choice but he was not and rightly so as DA has been integral and vital for the Boks

There are some things stats don’t cover, dominant clean outs for example, but most of the things that make a difference are there to see in black and white. And no back cleans out more dynamically than Hozen.

Dud lopes up into contact, with no momentum he isn’t as easy to bring down, but he beats those tackles no more than average. It takes a while to bring him down, that’s not a positive, it gives the defence time to reset.

Esterhozen hits the first tackle with momentum, time and again shifting the gain line and more importantly getting the ball back quickly. Quick ball further forward destabilizes the defence.

If Lucky decided that offloading is an important tactic, he does that very well. As did Allende 10 years ago when he was modelling on SBW. No sign that he can do that today.

Hozen will make every back a better player.

Wrong DA has been awesome for the Boks, the best 12 in the game at times

But it’s time to move on from all our current centres

Rassie was spot on choosing DA over AE