"He did exactly what DA does at 12, with a bit more impact given the weak opposition"
Geez, talk about an understatement.
On Saturday, don't forget, DDA also tried tractoring a few times and the very same defence that Andre was owning stopped DDA dead in his tracks.
Wrong DA was not stopped dead in his tracks that’s a lie
Umm...yes he was.
Ummmm no he was not
He did the same as AE, difference being AE did it a lot more frequently given he was at 12 and also got stuck in as a forward
Besides the AE vs DDA debate, I do wonder and have my doubts: does Damian Willemse have the necessary physical clout to really be successful as an inside centre?
Fair question M
LOL
A fool may well find that funny.
Well Willemse is over 100kg’s these days, has the dog in him and we don’t want him playing it like DA and AE did
We want him doing exactly what he did against NZ
But he is a different body type…a stepper not a bruiser. Whether his stepping is as effective at 12 is a fair question. He had a great game in Wellington at 12, but most of his contributions were still open field efforts.
Is he best deployed at 15. This season he was certainly our best 15, well ahead of Fassi who has never been the same player since his injury.
Db, LOL’ isn’t an argument. If you disagree, say why.
Comments like this are just sideline provocation.
Either add something factual to the discussion or don’t post… :)
"He did the same as AE, difference being AE did it a lot more frequently given he was at 12 and also got stuck in as a forward"
That is categorically not the case.
What game did you watch?
AE made ground and provided the momentum upon which tries were scored. DDA did not do that. He had a few carries and made very little ground.
The delta was not simply frequency.
Seriously, does anybody else here think that DDA and AE did the same thing on Saturday, with the only difference being that AE did it more often?
Surely not? I mean, unless I've totally lost my mind.
No his contributions at 12 against the AB’s was NOT from open field positions - geez man
Willemse offered zero at 15 on attack this season . He was very good under the high ball but not once did we see a counter attack launched from deep or him running a great line from deep - why, because he simply does not have the pace to make the attacking impression from deep - it’s sooooo obvious
His strength is stepping and power to either attack space or impose physically
It’s not even up for debate - Willemse’s best position is 12
Fassi was good before we lost him - the notion that he was not is utter nonsense
Fassi at 15, Willemse at 12 - non negotiable next season
I might bench Willemse and start Esterhuizen at 12. Then later in game bring on Willemse and move Esterhuizen to flank.
Willemse is solid at XV, but I think his best position is 12. He might even be good at 13.
Delande is a solid player, but I think he reduces options on attack. His stats prove that he does not score many tries, but more importantly- his try assists are very low.
"Db, LOL’ isn’t an argument. If you disagree, say why.
Comments like this are just sideline provocation.
Either add something factual to the discussion or don’t post… :)"
The comments resulting in my "LOL" were the provocation...I don’t play pigeon chess, I "LOL" at it.
Fassi was right up there with my favourite players.
But then he got injured and now he looks like he has weak ankles.
Plus he's already 27 or something.
...and he's at the doomed Sharks.
Horn is looking very good and he's durable and tactically smarter than Fassi.
But yeah, none of it matters because Hooker will be the next long term 12 and Willemse will be 15/23 and occasionally start at 12.
Geez, Willemse is only 27!? Guy has a realistic shot at winning 3 WCs!!!
Willemse at 13
"A fool may well find that funny."
Yes, it's almost as funny as saying Cheslin is too small for a test rugby wing.
"Whether his stepping is as effective at 12 is a fair question"
That wasn't the question.
"does Damian Willemse have the necessary physical clout to really be successful as an inside centre?
The question was not if he is physical enough for test center or Bok center, it was as inside center...which was a ridiculous question in my opinion...even more ridiculous that I need to explain it for some.
Willemse looks to be our best bet at 12. Compare his skill set to Esterhuizen! He is a far more skillful. The only thing Esterhuizen is better at is tractoring.
The MGU have to understand that there is much more to playing at 12 than tractoring! Hahahahaha that you have to mention this.
Willemse is a big strong lad and physically of course he is up to playing 12 what an absurd question to raise.
Dave of course is right and I said the same a few days ago. If Allende had played 12 he would have tractored the ball up almost as well as Esterhuizen. We have seen him do it against top sides. For the rest he is more skilful that Esterhuizen but there is not too much in it.
Mampara Plumster appears to bought into the Cards opinion that Alkende is a pap center. Man that guy produced some pearlers.
So far apart from the match against the second to third rate Welshies Esterhuizen has not taken his chances. But he looks better this year so give him another chance by all means.
That said we need to give Willemse a run at 12. The combination of Williamse Sacha and Williams could be devasting.. Moodie is maturing and put him at 13. What an attacking threat. Defence should be adequate.
Well Draad, your tactics as usual, are shining through and give you the exposure you want.
You have made your stance on Willemse clear in the past, that you prefer him at 15.
Whichever question you choose, is irrelevant.
Your LOL comment is nothing more than cheap provocation.
You do realise that the only one actually playing pigeon chess, is you.
Just an idea, why don’t you grow up and play the ball, not the man?
After all, this is a rugby forum with rugby debate… :)
Also Draad, the context of the discussion has always been Damian Willemse at 12, so your distinction between Bok center and inside center is pure nitpicking.
Stop twisting the words in a desperate attempt to support your narrative.
"The question was not if he is physical enough for test center or Bok center, it was as inside center...which was a ridiculous question in my opinion...even more ridiculous that I need to explain it for some.”
Willemse is not built like AE or DDA, so asking about his physical clout as an inside center is completely fair.
His stepping has never been the issue, he has proven that.
You can’t just label a valid question “ridiculous” to dodge real discussion.
With the kind of players Erasmus has primarily picked at 12, it’s obvious to question physical strength.
No matter what is said, we’re in the golden era of Bok rugby. Something I dreamt about, dreamt about Bok domination and watched that disappear like a puff of dust through the emerging years. But we’re there now ,it doesn’t matter that we had to wait for what felt like an eternity.Does it really matter how long it lasts? Another RWC has a nice ring to it.
It’s simple - Fassi at 15 and Willemse at 12, I know it and Rassie knows it and that’s all that matters
Then why is Rassie looking like he wants to play Hooker at 12?
Um the only reason Willemse is at 15 and not 12 right now because Fassi is injured - pretty obvious really
Hooker at 12 makes perfect sense - we need depth at 12 - Hooker will be our new AE - the perfect back up to Willemse at 12
In the match that counted the most this year Rassie went with Fassi at 15 and Willemse at 12, where Willemse passed with flying colours
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
But Claiming “Rassie knows” and presenting it as fact is premature.
Unless Rassie has explicitly said in his own words that Willemse is definitely our 12 going forward, or you have spoken to him privately and he advised you of this so called fact.
The discussion has always been speculative, and Willemse has only been tried at 12 a few times.
If Rassie was committed to Willemse at 12, he would have played him at 12 consistently, regardless of other options.
It would have been easy, as you suggested before the EOYT.
Bring Jordan Hendrikse into the squad as fullback, allowing Willemse to play at 12 no matter what.
He didn’t do that, which tells me Rassie has not made up his mind yet.
Try wake up to the fact that the EOYT squad only contained one fullback option in Willemse - that might have been the reason you did not see him at 12 huh?
Lets have your AI answer to that
Yes exactly my point… if Erasmus wanted Willemse at 12, like you proclaiming as fact, he would’ve brought in a back up 15.
He didn’t…and that means he still has not made up his mind!
I sometimes, like everyone else, use Chat GPT to research certain things. I don’t use Chat to write my messages for me.
I suggest you use Chat GPT to establish a diet for yourself:)
"Well Draad, your tactics as usual, are shining through and give you the exposure you want.
You have made your stance on Willemse clear in the past, that you prefer him at 15. I prefer him to Fassie. I am not convinced about
Fassie yet, but he wasn't too bad before his injury.
Whichever question you choose, is irrelevant. No it isn't. DW's ability to play 12 has nothing to do with where he plays for the Bokke. He has clearly showed that he is more than just capable enough to play 12 at any level. If he is our best option is a whole different question..
Your LOL comment is nothing more than cheap provocation. Yes, because it ridicule a stupid question in my opinion. It was a bit blunt of me to do it in such way...sorry, I got a bit irritated at the absurdity.
You do realise that the only one actually playing pigeon chess, is you. Nope
Just an idea, why don’t you grow up and play the ball, not the man? Sometimes you tackle man and ball at the same time...mostly. I tackled the ball carrier...and maybe you should follow your own advice.
After all, this is a rugby forum with rugby debate… :)
Also Draad, the context of the discussion has always been Damian Willemse at 12, so your distinction between Bok center and inside center is pure nitpicking. Then phrase your content better.
Stop twisting the words in a desperate attempt to support your narrative. I'm not twisting anything, you are attempting to twist what you said into something different.
"The question was not if he is physical enough for test center or Bok center, it was as inside center...which was a ridiculous question in my opinion...even more ridiculous that I need to explain it for some.”
Willemse is not built like AE or DDA, so asking about his physical clout as an inside center is completely fair. AE and DDA are not the only mould for 12s. Not all 12s are crash-ballers. It is nice to have big bruisers at 12, but sometimes a smaller 12 with a bit more finesse is much better, and DW is by no means small. There are a lot of successful 12's smaller than him.
His stepping has never been the issue, he has proven that.
You can’t just label a valid question “ridiculous” to dodge real discussion. I didn't.
With the kind of players Erasmus has primarily picked at 12, it’s obvious to question physical strength. Yes, but not to question DW's physicality. He is obviously big enough for a test 12.
Well he didn’t bring another fullback as he obviously has no faith in anyone outside of Fassi, Willie and Willemse. Willie is toast and Fassi is injured, so it’s left to Willemse at 15
Its not what I would have done but clearly given a player like Jordan Hendrikse for instance, who has only just got back from injury is not seen as a current option at 15 in Rassie’s eyes - I get that - for as correctly pointed out a few weeks ago - would Rassie start Hendrikse at 15 in the matches against France and Ireland - no chance in hell so it was down to Willemse
So it’s obvious that Rassie sees Fassi and Willemse as his only current 15 options and it’s obvious that Rassie has plenty of faith in the Fassi at 15 and Willemse at 12 option given he opted for that in the most important test of the year
Try wake up to this obvious fact and do me a favour and go shove your weight advice up your arse. Have you met me? Do you know what I look like you fucking idiot?
DB, the question was never whether DW is physically capable as a player.
But whether he has the specific physicality needed as an inside center given the type of 12’s selected by Erasmus.
If Erasmus was committed to Willemse at 12, he would have arranged the squad to make that happen, including a backup 15.
He didn’t. That’s why the question remains valid.
:)
That’s not me you stupid prick
Did I give you permission to post photos of my family members on here huh?
I suggest you delete it you fucking scum
Get a life…you know from which thread it is…it’s already been posted.
The name Dawie is used, which is a name used for you??
You are fucking scum
What the hell are you on about?? It’s already on the thread: “ I am being moderated “
Did I give you or anyone permission to post photos of my family members on this site huh?
Delete it you fucking cunt or do I need to take this further?
Well Porker, the picture has been removed here, but it doesn’t matter.
It’s still publicly visible on the original thread: "I am being moderated" where it’s been since 2018.
So what exactly is your point now??
Fuck off you waste of space