Select derserving Black Players: Mantashe- Political Pressure on Meyer

Black players should be selected for the Springboks if they are good enough to play at international level, ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe said on Wednesday.

"The situation is the coaches select the basic minimum black players in the team and relax thereafter and overlook good players," Mantashe said.

"Why do we wait until there are no other players? The attitude is that coaches think this is a white sport and they meet the basic amount of players."

Mantashe, an ardent rugby supporter, said it seemed like Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer was reluctant to select black players that deserved a place in the side.

"My view is that the new coach is not keen on putting black players in the team, even those that have proven they are the best."

He said there were enough talented black players that Meyer could select on merit alone, and there was something wrong if players such as talented flyhalf Elton Jantjies were relegated to the bench.

Sharks wing Mwazi Mvovo and Stormers flanker Siya Kolisi also deserved a spot in the team, according to Mantashe.

Jantjies made his debut for the Springboks in their Rugby Championship match against Australia in Pretoria in October.

The young pivot had been part of the national set-up since 2010 but had to wait almost three years to get a run in the green-and-gold.

He was given an extended run against New Zealand at FNB Stadium, in their final match of this season's southern hemisphere competition, after he replaced first-choice flyhalf Johan Goosen early in the match.

Jantjies was nevertheless overlooked for this weekend's clash against Ireland for the first match of their end-of-year tour.

In-form Sharks player Pat Lambie will now wear the number 10 jersey while Morne Steyn was selected on the bench.

Mantashe said he believed Meyer had too much confidence in Steyn, with talented youngsters waiting in the wings.

Meyer could also do better by selecting younger players to take his team forward to the 2015 Rugby World Cup in England.

Western Province coach Allister Coetzee demonstrated what could be achieved, according to Mantashe, when faith was placed in younger players.

"Look at the Western Province team that won the Currie Cup," he said.

"He (Coetzee) showed faith and confidence in young players and they delivered. The national coach must do the same."

Meyer would help the country if he gave these players an opportunity to play for the Springboks.

 Nice way to get into the headlines for Mantashe. I wonder if he gets involved at junior level of the game to promote transformation, or that would just not provide the oppertunity for him to get some publicity and help his political career. I should be expected that the politicians were going to get involved sooner or later. 

Am with him on this. Meyer should have selected younger players, there is stuff all point in the selections of CJ, Steenkamp, Heinke and Franco v/d Merwe.

Also agree that Kolisi should have been selected earlier in the year and agree that Jantjies should be way ahead of tried and failed Morne.

With Habana out, Mvovo should have been on the wing, with Hougaard at 9 where he belongs

 This is a golden opportunity for the Minister of Sport to make a name for himself.

Get the SARU to select a team made up of disadvantage players and call them the "Bushbucks".

The NZRU does it and they have done very well in developing the game for the disadvantage in NZ.

The manager could be Cheeky Watson and just to get them going in the right direction make Puke Watson the captain for the first few games.

Then you can isuue them with caps, blazers and whatever else and it will also allow the cream of the crop to aspire to Springbok level.

Any takers!!!!!!!!

Saffex

I am in full agreement with Mantashe here - deserving players should be onsidered.   At this stage there are only two deserving Black players, namely Beast,  Mvovo and Rhule.   Kolisi started off like a house on fire and later in the season faded out.   In the games before injury he was very, very quiet.   He has a full season of Super 15 before him and we shall all see whather he really qualify as a deserving player.

 As for Coloured players there are obviously desering players - I would include Kirchner, Pietersen and Habana in that category.   We have ample quota players already - Silky Hands and  De Jongh being the most prominent examples.    Be assured Silky Hands is in the squad for that reason only - definitely  not on merit.

Here goes:

15. Kirchner 14. Habana 13. JP 12. de Jongh 11. Mvovo 10. Jantjies 9. Rudy Paige 1. Beast 2. Chiliboy 3. Mujati 4. Marvin Orrie 5. Corniel Hess 6.Carr 7.Kolisi 8. Johnson

Agreed Mantashe.

Mvovo and Rhule is much better than Hougaard, they should be on the wing.
Kolisi should at least be on the bench.
De Jongh should be at 13 instead of Taute

Saffex that non white team is not bad.

 I would choose De Jongh at outside center. 

Kolisi is injured so not a factor at the moment.

Would put Rhule on the bench, to replace Hougaard.

If he plays well/better than Hougaard then he makes the position his own(at least until Habana is back). I think most players should be introduced from the bench, unless they are without doubt the best player in their position. 

-

Matashe, should however go back to doing his own job, not accusing the national coach of being a racist. The same thing happened against Jake White. This is why I think that a coach like John Plumtree from the Sharks could be useful- he is the best coach in South Africa and he could not be accused of being racist as he is not a South African.

Manta is a racists as is the disgusting party he serves. Their record of racist corrupt cadre deployment is having ruinous effects in SA. Now he wants to ruin rugby and cause racial divisions.

No Meyer continue to pick on merit as you see it. It is of interest to note that Habana would have played if fit and Mujati no doubt would also be on the bench. I am happy with Meyers choice of flyhalves. No problem at all with Taute before De Jongh - if he wants a permanent spot we need more than the very occassioanl flash of brilliance. Taute should of course hav been selected at 15 an dthis would have left a spot open to De Jongh but another player of colour would have been dropped..

Any idea tha tchilli boy should hav ebeen on the nbench is a joke. The guy has been out for ages and has done zip to merit squad selection.

Rhule at 19 has great promise but was hopeless against the queens in the wet- really poor. Amazing Meyer picked him. He also bent over backwards picking chilli boy.  Kolisi is over rated and Deon Fourie i sfar better than him. Kolisi faded badly as the season wore on and would never on merit hav emade a Bok squad. perhaps he will do better this coming year being a year older and hopefully ou alistair is getting a notion of rotattion.

Away with racists like manta!!! Pick on merit and get rid of this foul obsession. Hope the anc takes a pasting at the polls the country cant afford these looters and all their inefficiency. Our school kids are sufferring and having their futures destroyed. Away with them!

Away with twits like manta who should concern himslef more as to why his boss Zuma is spending R250 million of taxpayers money on a private residence. That oak is heading for jail for sure.

 I hate this racist crap that always comes out a week before an imporant test match. So much for supporting your country. What this idiot has done is once again, like his predecessors, try to make a name for himself in playing the race card. 

Therefor I can not agree to anything that he is saying. 

Meyers only problem is his biased towards bulls players, but because a player of colour have been left out, it is all of sudden racism. F'en twat. 

Mvovo and Rhule vs Hougaard - Hougaard is by far the better defender of the two and harder working. They both look great on attack but struggle when turned. Rhule didn't really feature in the U21 as he got exposed for his defence and was dropped. Mvovo really played poor for the boks this year and was probably one of the culprits for the boks doing so bad. Hougaard hasn't bene much better and its a matter of experience that counts for him over the other two.

Taute vs De Jongh - De Jongh should start ahead of Taute. Taute is not 13 and wants to play 15. De jongh has been rock solid on defence all season. He has been playing with Jean De Villiers for the last two seasons and only make sense.

Jantjes vs Steyn - Steyn shouldn't be on this tour at all. Jantjes is not much better but at least his kicking is better and has an attacking edge over Steyn

Chilli vs Brits - Chilli is a good player and have played really well early on in the season but has been injured for the rest of it and hardly played in the currie cup. Brits is a great impact player and the type of player you want on your bench. Also have experience of playing up north.

Meyers selection is not racist but just his personal choice for certain type of players.

kingcorn

I am strobgly opposed to the playing of the race card in any event and to my mind the polticians read the media hype abd then qualify players according to that norm - they know as much about rugby as the  ordinary man-in-the street.   That is why they take up the issues of really questionable players and then make out that they are in fact capable and should be selected ahead of other players.  

It is funny that they always look at the latest game and then conclude that a player favoured by them - should be selected - irrespective of how they have performed overall.   Let me explain - over the past year the Stormers had the poorest try scoring record in Super 15 - and their backline was shockingly harmless in attackinng play.   The main problem was the center combination that showed nothing in attack.   I agree that the defence was good - but is that the only function of the backline?  De Villiers is on the way out - he may last another season on Super level - and his performances in especially attacking play this year were poor.   De Jongh is in respect of defence sound - in attack he is of less value than a rag doll.   Just see his stats in try-scoring and you will understand what I mean.    If they play him at center it really means that we are closing down the possibility of attacking backline play 100%.   I think that Meyer made a mistake by including him in the squad in any event.     The main reason why he cannot attack is his size - the opposition tackles him with ease and the result often enough is turnovers of the ball or penalties.  

Jantjies is the most hyped-up player in SA.  His goalkicking is virtually his only asset - the rest of his play is diabolical - so bad that his teammates in the Soweto test cut him out of play - by not passing balls to him.   Jantjies has so many negatives in his play - yet when anybody read media reports about his performances and watch the actual game - you would find he had a wonderful game  acording to the media - yet there are no real examples about his real performance whih tend to be poor.   He is desperately poor in defence - he stands too deep in the pocket and take some time running sideways and then pass balls to them with defenders on top of them (hospital passes), he himself does not attack the gain line.   I am  of he opinion that the Stormers will soon enough found out that he is the new version of Earl Rose - a player who  in his early playing career had  the same media hype-support as Jantjies now enjoys.   Even to put Jantjies on the bench  is like a lottery ticket..

I think that Mvovo and Rhule are  players for the future - they are way below par at present - but they will learn as time goes on.  Chilliboy came back from injury and after in fact he plated exactly 35 minutes of rugby since his return from injury.  He need some game time before he can be cosidered for inclusion on the bench.

There is generally one constant  noticeable in the accusation process and that is that some player connections get the media about the bad treatment meted out to their player - followed by a media fuss and the consequential political noise.   It became clear that Earl Rose was behind some story about him being discrimnated against  in Lions  team selection - while he was in fact  desperately poor.  One wonders who is behind the latest outburst by Mantashe?   It followed on a keo article - the question is who got Keo to write that story?   I think that it is probably some people connected to the players mentioned in the article.   Be it as it may the usage of politics to enhance selection is despicable.  

mvovo over hougaard iscrzay, while hougaad hasnt set the world on fire in 2012, he serves a dual purpose as he is also the Boks halfback backup, meyer hasnt selected a halfback on the bench in the last few tests.

i dont much about mantashe, but he does seem like a genuine tool and those comments do have publicity stunt all over it, especially in SA where it is a hot topic.

i have a suggestion, pick a NZ coach to coach the Boks. no kiwi would be accused of being racist if he picks a predominatly white team, except for PDV maybe, lolz.
a NZ coach would also put to one side the arguments of provincial favourtisim, IMO meyer has gone with a plan that made him usccessful with the bulls, but that has also meant many undeserved selections of some bull players, mainly greyling and morne and krichners constant starting selection.
 

one major beef i have with the Bokjs selection policies is the constant need to select players from the NH, theres no need for it given the talent in SA and i dont buy that argument that players based in the north are selected cos of their familiarty with the conditions and grounds, IMO ur a professional player, adapt and harden the fuck up.
for every NH based player selected in the team, thats one less spot that could have beenn given to somebody closer to home.

also on that topic, wasnt franocis steyns signing with the sharks based on the fact that he was pressured cos SARU was leaning towards pickoing only SA based players???
he has the right to feel shafted if this was the case, cos he could have stayed up north and made the bling and still play for the Boks,,,,,,,,,
 

Sasue

Mantashe is a mamber of the SA Communist Party - which is part of the ANC Alliance.  In 2007 he ws selected on the Zuma ticket as Secretary General of the ANC,   However, there is another ABC Congress in December 1012 in Bloemfontein and various factions within the ANC - one of which is trying to get the present Minister of Sport and Receation elected as ANC Secretary General.    The latter is going to be bad news since the political fall-out of such a move - could turn rugby and cricket into a political football.

I do not know of any real commection between Mantashe with rugby - but he is from the Eastern Cape and there is quite a strong support base for rugby in that area.   Being from the Eatern Cape is most likely closely aligned to the Watson clique.

As it is th wing that could be replaced as a result of injury is Habana.   I oersonally have serious reservations about Hougaard on the wing - but I agree with you about Houhaard at present being a bettr proposition than Mvovo and Rhule.  The latter two is very young still and could develop into top wings of the future.

As far as coaching is concerned - why do you think I support Mitchell and Plumtree so strongly?

Meyer made a complete mess of selections.  I think that since so many players are in fact playing club rugby in Europe and Japan - SA Rugbt decided  not to exclude those players from selection.   However, the idea always was that such selections should be in exceptional circumstances only.   Meyer made a serious mess by including the overseas based players in the squad - and applies th condition without regard to the exceptional circumstances" condition with selections such as Steenkamp.   The latter condition clearly imply that preference should be given to  SA-based players. 

I don't think you can determine whether Hougaard is a better proposition than Mvovo and Rhule if these players hardly get an opportunity to play at a international level. The fact remains that these players need to at least get some game time to determine whether they are currently capable to play at this level and then you can say they are not test rugby players, but they don't get a chance, why not?

 

Lucid

I rate both Mvovo and Rhule highlt - but I don;t think test rugby is the place where players should be developed to ultimnately compete on international level.  Like in any professional scenario - players must prove themselves on lower level and through gaining of experience and training must develop their skills to perform on higher level.   Some promising talents would get and earn positions in the team on international level.   Lets look objectively at the two players mentioned.

Mvovo played some very good rugby for the Sharks and was consequently selected as a member of the Springbok squad.   He was on the bench and was even utilized in the game against Australia in Brisbame.   However, I believe Mvovo is still a rough diamond that needs to be polished - hence the deficiencies he showed in that game.   He is NOT ready yet - but all indications are that he woud develop to play on that level in future..  To rush him into selection while there are still some deficiencies  could be seriously damaging to his career as a professional rugby player.

Rhule came into notice in the Under 20 WC.   He was dropped after one game - because of series deficiencies in his performance.   However, he was brought back into the team because of injuries to other players and did well enough in the final.   He then enhanced his image whilst playing for the Cheetahs in the CC - abd I believe he has even more potential than Mvovo.   It must be borne in mind he is only 19 years old and even on CC level there was some problems in evidence that need to be worked on.

I think Super 15 next year would provide them with the necessary opprotunities to develop their skills further - especially in the field of defence and ball play in general.   Speed they have in abundance - in fact their best asset at present.   Whether they would get beyond the bench whilst Habana and Pietersen is around is onviously also a problem.   Will you in test rugby replace he latter two world class players in tests? 

Lucid

I rate both Mvovo and Rhule highlt - but I don;t think test rugby is the place where players should be developed to ultimnately compete on international level.  Like in any professional scenario - players must prove themselves on lower level and through gaining of experience and training must develop their skills to perform on higher level.   Some promising talents would get and earn positions in the team on international level.   Lets look objectively at the two players mentioned.

Mvovo played some very good rugby for the Sharks and was consequently selected as a member of the Springbok squad.   He was on the bench and was even utilized in the game against Australia in Brisbame.   However, I believe Mvovo is still a rough diamond that needs to be polished - hence the deficiencies he showed in that game.   He is NOT ready yet - but all indications are that he woud develop to play on that level in future..  To rush him into selection while there are still some deficiencies  could be seriously damaging to his career as a professional rugby player.

Rhule came into notice in the Under 20 WC.   He was dropped after one game - because of series deficiencies in his performance.   However, he was brought back into the team because of injuries to other players and did well enough in the final.   He then enhanced his image whilst playing for the Cheetahs in the CC - abd I believe he has even more potential than Mvovo.   It must be borne in mind he is only 19 years old and even on CC level there was some problems in evidence that need to be worked on.

I think Super 15 next year would provide them with the necessary opprotunities to develop their skills further - especially in the field of defence and ball play in general.   Speed they have in abundance - in fact their best asset at present.   Whether they would get beyond the bench whilst Habana and Pietersen is around is onviously also a problem.   Will you in test rugby replace he latter two world class players in tests? 

Mike
Definitely not, Habana and Pietersen will remain our long term wingers for a few years, i approve that. The question that comes to mind is why didn't we make some variation changes in the backline during the game? We used our forwards but not our backs on the bench. I understand that Mvovo and Rhule are developing standard players, but i believe they can adjust to the game quickly. Why not at the 60th minute at least just to see if they can impress at a higher level, but we don't know at this stage therefore we can not say whether these players are not test rugby standard unless they get some constructive game time.

In regards to Hougaard he had a decent performance, nothing special at all. In the Rugby Championship his defence was exposed on a few occasions, he missed an important tackle which could've lead to a try in the recent game against Ireland, i can't exactly remember specifically what time it occured but i saw it. Taken everything into consideration i'll honestly say Hougaard is definitely not up to standard. I didn't like the fact that when Habana got injured Meyer immediately went for Hougaard without being aware about his current form. We have more talanted wingers they just don't get the opportunity, hopefully next time.

Lucid

I agree with you 100% on the issue of Hougaard.   There is serious question marks about Hougard - both as a scrummie and on the wing.   If you look at the team I would have liked on Saturday - my choice in fact was Mvovo to play on the wing instead of Hougaard.

No let me get back to the backline bench players.   Personally I think Meyer has no idea abiut backline play.   His selections indictes as such.   To be quite frank - he kept a failing Morne Steyn playing when Jantjies was on the bench.   Yo be quite frank I peronally think  Jantjies has a number of deficiencies in his play - but this is neither here nor there - what counts is wh Meyer thinks.   I think he does not trust Jantjies or De Jongh when the chips are down and we are in a dicey situation.   Thi is confirmed that he only brought the two on in the 74th minute of the Wallaby game - when it was clear that the game was won alreadsy.

In the Soweto test Jantjies indeed had a poor game - that accounts for Meyer preferrin Morne Steyn on the bench for the Irish test.   He knows the existing problems of Morne Steyn - yet dies not really beleive that they have been solved.

I am giving you the above examples to illustrate one issue - nmely that the backline bench players are only in the mtch squadto cater for injuries - not for standard replacements - that is I believe the reson of Meyer not to use them.