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FORUM / RUGBY /  Sharks play South African rugby and dominate

Sharks play South African rugby and dominate

Started by Mozart56 REPLIES842 VIEWS· 07 May 2016, 16:55
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2016, 16:55
#1
07 May 2016, 16:55#1
In fairness the Canes looked physically whipped after the half. But this was a victory for traditional South African rugby strengths. Let's list them:
1 A dominant scrum
2 An aggressive, ball seeking lineout
3. A dominant defence with great coverage, rapacious holding up and attacking of the ball in the tackle, great line speed.....providing lots of turnover ball.
4 Quick, clinical counter attacking.
5 Power rucking when the ball hit the deck, nullifying opposition fetchers.

So in the end we saw the other side of ball in hand/phase play, just as we saw with the Lions last week....a source of good balls. 
This is the model for South African rugby. If the Sharks play the Lions this way they  would blow them out the water.
Super games by Daniels, the Beast, Lewies, April, Claasens and Esterhozen.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 May 2016, 17:23
#2
07 May 2016, 17:23#2
 Dr Moz I do hope you realise now what balanced rugby is about. ITS NOT HAVING NO CREATIVE FLAIR AND ATTACK ABILITY.
Yes this was old fashioned Bok rugby. 
Du Preez lads did very well. But there was commitment all around the park. Nice skills as well. Great lineout. Solid scrum that got better as the game went on.
Lets leave the ultra conservative rugby that has bedevilled our rugby.
I will note however the fielding of small packs outweighed and out muscled is not on.Stormers field three little uns and then flimsy backs. Ditto the Cheetahs. Even the Bulle didnt recognise need to beef up their pack with Kirsten etc.Forget about 107 kg ,locks . We saw how we matfiled decimated our tight five. Orie is not up to it when playing 920 kg packs
In the end we saw the hurricanes well subdued! Bwahahahahhahahaha
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 May 2016, 17:36
#3
07 May 2016, 17:36#3
Mozart, IMO you have it partly right.
However, the scrum was not dominant, both teams won 100%. Sharks had the advantage in the lineouts. 
Also, Sharks had more offloads 26 to 17 - not traditional SA rugby. Mauls won were even 3 each (Trad rugby would show a more dominant result). 
Sharks did kick more out of hand so this is part of traditional SA rugby. 
My conclusion is the Canes had a bad day & these stats cannot be extrapolated out to prove traditional SA rugby has risen again - yet


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,271 posts
07 May 2016, 18:24
#4
07 May 2016, 18:24#4
@JW- You are only using a tighthead as the benchmark of a dominant scrum   the Sharks scrum was dominant. 
It put more pressure on opposition ball and went forward on their own possession. 
The scrum was also wheeling- which for example led to the try by one of the twins of the base of the scrum. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2016, 18:52
#5
07 May 2016, 18:52#5
 Exactly right, the du Preez try came because the Canes loosies were pinned to the scrum trying to prevent a pushover try...it was loosie vs scrummie from 3 metres out and only one likely winner.
HasBeen I have never advocated non attacking rugby. I have criticized phase play in your own half......turnover attacks can come from deep as we have often seen.

The Sharks play today was very close to the Bok model I am advocating. With one caveat, we have to cut out more of the penalties and handling errors. Given we dominated the set pieces, our lack of ball resulted largely from our own errors.
And we have to work on tactics close to the line. We won't always dominate the set phases to ease our way within the 22. The Canes prop try was a perfect example of clever handling close to the line, although under pressure they blew lots of 'go-in' ball.
Select the right team, play the Sharks style, become more organized inside the 22, cut out the errors.....and the Boks will beat the ABs far more often.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 May 2016, 19:28
#6
07 May 2016, 19:28#6
 A dominant scrum would have won at least one tight-head surely or at least racked up some scrum penalties. 
Towards the end of the game the Canes forwards may have lost their footing & this may have created some delusions of grandeur in the minds of some posters
Anyway, congrats to the sharks, they won the game there's no debate about that. They were the better team on the day.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2016, 19:34
#7
07 May 2016, 19:34#7
 Mozart
Are you trying to kid everyone on this site.   First of all you have been the exponent of kicking the ball away and passive backline play - where the only function of the backline is to defend - and you called that traditional SA Rugby.
Now you say the performance of the Sharks today is traditional SA Rugby.  What happened today was so far removed form the so-called traditional SA Rugby as the east is from the west.   The ball was handled by the backline and not routinely kicked away as per Morne Steyn or crahballed as per Fat Fransie.
Apparently you have not taken up the difference the various team are trying to play now and the way they used to play for the past decade or more under White, De Villiers and Meyer - as well as on provincial level under Coetzee and Ludeke.   Once you have cottoned on to what happened in the past compared what is happening at present - we can discuss the issue again.              
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2016, 19:38
#8
07 May 2016, 19:38#8
Wrong  in a nut shell you advocate the Lions approach....I advocate the approach the Sharks used today......and aggressive  defence and fast attack off turnover ball.
mozart
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 15867The Lions provide many timely lessons
April 30, 2016, 19:08:09

Firstly the myth that we should play NZ at their own game. Nope, we need a more structured game where our forwards can get to the breakdown. The Lions were overwhelmed because they couldn't get the numbers and once the superior Canes backs had the ball it was all over. The Sharks game plan against the Chiefs is the way to go.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2016, 19:41
#9
07 May 2016, 19:41#9
JW there were a few scrums where a penalty could have been called. The Canes did maintain their shape quite well...so the collapses and pop ups weren't evident. Still they were rolled up at their tighthead side throughout the game.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2016, 19:53
#10
07 May 2016, 19:53#10
 Mozart 
Are you dilly - I advocates comprehensive rugby where the backline has a function as well - not only in the case of turnover ball, but throughout the game.   That is not Lions rugby - it represents thinking rugby.   Get the difference?   
Bearing in mind that  - 
*  you claimed the function of flyhalfs is to kick away 90% of the balls without regard to the accuracy of the kicks (hence you strong support for Morne and Fat Fransie);
*  you advocating crashballing by the no 12 center relentlessly (supportin Fat Fransie relentlessly); abd
*  you said in the past thatball protection and recovery is not important.
so when have you ever have advocated anything like you now claimed above - so please tell us when that change as to your thinking on rugby happened?      
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 May 2016, 19:59
#11
07 May 2016, 19:59#11
Mozart, even if the sharks showed a bit of dominance in the scrums this alone would not be enough to qualify as complete traditional SA rugby. The other aspects of the game weren't there. 
They had a lot of offloads 26 to 17 - not traditional SA rugby. The backs used the ball. 
The weren't dominant in the mauls as Canes & sharks won 3 each. They kicked for territory but we didn't see the endless, mindless rolling mauls.
I agree that they did emphasize defense an opportunism rather than throwing the ball around all over the place so this is more like traditional SA rugby but overall this game didn't have all the hallmarks of a traditional SA style game.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2016, 20:07
#12
07 May 2016, 20:07#12
1 I said 90% of what distinguishes fly halves is where and how to kick...big difference
2 Frans plays exactly the role Esterhozen did today, but he is a better offloader and a vastly better kicker.
3 I have never advocated crash balling ever.
4 I have never said ball protection isn't important...I have said strong counter rucking can dominate fetching.
So you are either lying or too stupid to understand the subtleties. What is certain is today's style is not what you have been advocating.....the Bulls ply in the CC and the Lions play are what you have praised. Those mind sets are 180 degrees from what happened today.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2016, 20:50
#13
07 May 2016, 20:50#13
 What in heavens name do you come up now.  You supported the clueless, aimless and inaccurate kicking of both Morne and Fat Fransie as is evident from your contribution of the past - please note that aimless and inaccurate kicking is what these two players emphasize.  
You also now claim you do not support crashballing - so how do you divorce it from the fact that you supported all along Fat Fransie whose routine play was to crashball - rarely passing balls to backline players and when he did his passing was inaccurate and poor as well - leave alone his supposed off-loads, which happened once in a blue moon.  
So the fact that your favourite loosie Alberts never protected balls and recover same was all a flawed approach - which you claimed now to have counter-rucking is what you meant.  Weird - but Alberts was too slow to get to breakdown points and did not counter-ruck either.   
Fact is it looks like your support of players in the past was based on a halo you assigned to them and that the realization that they could not do what you said they are capable of has never hit home in your case. 
I based my assessment of your comments on the performance of the flawed players mentioned as the type of rugby that you support.  Your support of Meyer's world cup  game plan - entirely removed from what happened today - was also borne in mind when I wrote my above comment.         
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2016, 21:01
#14
07 May 2016, 21:01#14
Alberts never counter rucked, what will you come up with next Tokkie. Alberts has been one of the most effective counter ruckers in the game. HMs WC plan was much closer to what the Sharks produced today than the Lions/Bools CC style you have been pushing. Which is why we were so close to winning the WC semi against NZ.
Schplott!


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 May 2016, 07:54
#15
08 May 2016, 07:54#15
 Mozart
First of all lets put this Alberts myth of yours to sleep.   Due to serious pace deficiency Alberts very rarely got to  break down points in time to make any impact on counter-rucking and wen he did it was too late to have any real impact on the outcome of mauls.   In any event he was more interested in making an impact in his rare ball carries so he was hanging around outside of maul situations.   where he could get the ball and carried it for very short distances.   His small number of tackles for a loosie indicates that he was a lazy and very ineffective player - probably the worse loosie we ever fielded since re-admission to international rugby.   H e would have been totally incapable of contributing anything to the game of the Sharks yesterday.  
And to claim that Meyer's game plan in the WC was close to the game of the Sharks yesterday is one of the most ridiculous statements ever on this site.   After the Japanese disaster Meyer insisted on a game plan which basically ignore the backline and played a consistently a very predictable game passing the balls back to forwards.  or constantly and ineffectively kicking balls away.   The main task of the backline was only to defend and that led to the situation where in the quarters only one try was scored as a result of a forbidden situation - ie a forbidden off-load by Vermeulen and a defensive error by the Welsh wing.   In the semi the Springboks not once threatened to score a try.   Yesterday the Sharks scored 4 tries - and used their backline extensively playing a comprehensive game - not a static one Meyer insisted on in the WC.  
Best advice - be careful before you write BS on this site!!!!!!!
Schplott.                     
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 May 2016, 16:10
#16
08 May 2016, 16:10#16
 In the WC semi defence dominated. Nobody had a clear chance to score a try. But sadly Lomp and Allende blew their assignments. The game plan the Sharks used yesterday was typical of the White/ HM Bok teams....strong set pieces, great defence, attack from turnover ball. Not the 'me too' AB tactics the Lions employ,which you are so happy to support. Wise up Tokkie, we will never beat the ABs with their own tactics.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
08 May 2016, 17:10
#17
08 May 2016, 17:10#17
@mozzie,

if south african rugby choose to stick to this style of gameplan, they will lose far more matches than they will ever win when coming against NZ teams, u only need to look at the results for the past whenever to know this.

ur line of thinking is just too outdated and has no business in the modern day of rugby which favours a more attacking orientated style.

the lions are the only south african team who strive to break away from the south africas traditional game, and if ackers has the intestinal fortitude to stick with this formula hes trying to implement, i guarantee the lions will win a super rugby title in the next 5 years.
the lions need to tweak a thing or two, add some of that saffa talent both upcoming and established to their roster, and they will soon get the formula right to be one of the strongest in super rugby.

just remember rome wasnt built in a day, and its not easy going against the 10 man plan which is essentially what makes up south african rugbys DNA, when its been drilled into u for ever.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 May 2016, 17:44
#18
08 May 2016, 17:44#18
 Mozart
This is amazing - you talk about defense only - no effort to attack.   The Springboks never ever launched a reasonable attack so the AB's had virtually no need to defend at all.   All the Springboks did  was not to play rugby at all and hand ball -possession over to the AB's during that test.   However that was not all - in the quarter-final the same game plan was used - and the ball was routinely passed to forwards who did squat with the ball, even though the Springboks had 70% ball possession.
It was the worst rugby games ever and to state that the Springboks only lost by two points is what one would call a farce.  They lost because they did not play any form of acceptable rugby - whether you like it or not.  And they also lost against Japan - because of the same problem.              
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 May 2016, 18:27
#19
08 May 2016, 18:27#19
'It was the worst rugby games ever"...oh boy ....you really have to be stupid to be Provincial Admin man.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 May 2016, 19:41
#20
08 May 2016, 19:41#20
 Seriously now - I would rather be what I am and display a sense of knowledge of rugby as a game, then display the other rot you think of as the way rugby should be played.   See what I wrote about the semi-final of the WC - then you may realize why you are talking other BS about the match.  
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
08 May 2016, 21:41
#21
08 May 2016, 21:41#21
You're an interesting fell Moz. Well it looks like most of the SA franchises are opening up their game more so whatever happens there be some truth that comes out of that. The sample size is obviously still too small and the one team that has a been running the ball is made up of relative nobodies who've only relatively recently gained recognition. So in a sense we are looking at the situation in skewed way. The teams with the best players have only just started running the ball, offloading and counter attacking. What I wanna know is why you stand so firm on your belief that traditional Bok rugby is the way to go. Especially considering recent losses to average teams with this game plan and the amount of time that has passed since we've had success. One would think that something has to change, yet you don't seem to. I find that interesting. Maybe somewhere in one of your spats with Mike you do give a clear explanation but gosh it's like listening to my parents argue haha
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 May 2016, 22:09
#22
08 May 2016, 22:09#22
 Here's an article that was published in the ROAR. By a SA writer, by Armand van Zyl
He says you won't beat ABs playing AB rugby but have to find your own style.
 The first round of the June internationals are almost upon us, and the outlook is bleak for nations other than New Zealand.

When considering the showings of the England national team in the Six Nations, as well as the comparative efforts of both the Australian and South African conferences so far in Super Rugby, it is hard to name a side that actually has a realistic shot at dethroning the All Blacks in 2016.

I’ve written a few articles on this topic during my years onThe Roar and some might assume that it’s just another glorified rant about how good the New Zealanders are at rugby, but the truth is much simpler than that.

The truth is I am constantly dismayed by the relatively mediocre showings of attempted evolution from the second spot downward in the game we all love, live and breathe.

So I wait – running short on patience – for the day when rugby actually becomes competitive at the highest level and not just an all-out-war to see who the second best team in the world is.

If I were completely honest, I’d even say the battle for the not-so-coveted second spot in the world rankings is far more entertaining than witnessing the poor attempts at going for top spot. It just has a certain sort of flavour in its unpredictability.

Before I continue, it is important that I iterate two very important things. The first is I am in no way suggesting that watching the All Blacks is boring; they are spectacular in terms of entertainment, but they are egregious in terms of unpredictable results (and the fault there rests with the opposition).

If I want to see good rugby, I will watch New Zealand. If I want to see a constant battle for supremacy, a Wallabies, Springboks or England game will do me more justice.

The second point of importance is that I am not advocating the ridiculous notion that New Zealand needs to slow down or stagnate for the game to become more exciting – in fact, I hope they continue their pursuit of perfection. What I want is for the rest of the world to finally get up and decide to do the same, and that doesn’t mean just stumbling along, muttering lines of “execution” or “attempt to give the ball some air”.

Perfecting the execution of a flawed tactic will not record competitive head-to-head win rates against New Zealand; it will only make you look pretty while losing as both England and South Africa will show you. Also, playing running rugby will not automatically make you equal to the men in black; the Wallabies and Pumas of 2015 are sufficient evidence of that (as are the Lions who were obliterated against the Hurricanes last weekend).

There is an annoying belief that one must play like the All Blacks to beat the All Blacks. I do not agree with this belief for two main reasons. The first is you will never beat them by playing like them, because the style of rugby they play is a reflection of their entire culture – a culture that has been moulded and redefined for nigh on a hundred years.

The second point is that rugby is a game which allows for so much diversity and unique play. If everyone was to play exactly the same, then where would the excitement be?

Still, here is something to ponder on the first point. Can we really just assume that the Kiwis wouldn’t know how to counteract their own style? Are they not the creators of that particular style of rugby? And, most importantly, do they not play against their own style numerously on a yearly basis whenever the Crusaders face the Blues or the Chiefs tackle the Hurricanes?

My belief (and I could be wrong) is they are so formidable because they know exactly where they stand in all facets of their play. I believe that playing Super Rugby provides them with the perfect opportunity to tune and align their own style’s strengths and frailties.

The same concept applies to South Africa. Few teams in the world can beat South Africa consistently by using the same power, forward-orientated that they themselves employ – hence the winning records against all northern hemisphere opposition. South African teams are accustomed to those types of tactics because they practice it against one another in Super Rugby and in the Currie Cup. Instead, they falter against a style that is opaque to them, like wide, open, running rugby.

Take this into account. New Zealand have a massive advantage against the Springboks in recent years, and they are an attacking side. Australia hold the most respectable record against South Africa of any other team excluding the All Blacks, and they play open rugby. Argentina could never beat South Africa until they adopted a more enterprising brand. Japan defeated the Springboks by exploiting space, not by mauling them into submission.

Yet neither Australia, Argentina or Japan can beat the All Blacks consistently (or at all) with running rugby.

It is my observation that attempting to play like the All Blacks will never bring you closer to consistently beating them. Instead, the rest of the world should carve out their own path and create their own brand of rugby; evolve their own play. As with anything in the world, it is okay to draw inspiration from something that is successful, but is never honourable to completely try to imitate it.

Another tendency in rugby circles is the overlying thought that “Rugby was meant to be played like New Zealand plays it.”

I must have missed the memo on this. Rugby is a game of intricacies, of odds and evens, a game that is the extension of the human spirit. It’s all about expression. There is no “right” way to play it. You play it like you want to play it, the way you feel comfortable playing it.

Critics around the world can bemoan Ireland kicking inordinate amounts of up-and-unders, South Africa using one-off runners, Australia playing an openside at eight and England mauling until kingdom come, but it will never be the “wrong” way to play rugby.

The rugby world does not need ten teams playing All Black-style rugby and teams do not need to play like the All Blacks to beat them.

That also doesn’t mean the Springboks – or even England – for example, should keep playing the way they are currently playing. They must take what they’re good at, look at why it isn’t working, and add aspects to it that could compensate for their flaws. There is absolutely no need for complete reconstruction; only evolution.

Both England and the Springboks can add New Zealand-like interplay to their game plan without abandoning or sacrificing their traditional strengths. Nothing stops you from playing a power game, a tactical kicking game and a vast passing game in a single match.

That is what I would like to see from all teams. Take what you’re good at and add aspects that could nullify what is currently detrimental. This requires s mart and innovative coaching.

New Zealand did this in 2011 by bringing in a more disciplined kicking game and improvement in the aerial battle for the ball. It did not dictate the way they played – they are still predominantly a wide-running team – but they added what was necessary to negate a weakness in their game.

South Africa must do the same. Keep your core game the traditional strength, but bring unpredictability by merging it with aspects that may perhaps be foreign at first that could benefit the overall performance.

We see plenty of good players in every team in the world. Names like Israel Folau, George North, Johnathan Sexton, Damian de Allende, Louis Picamoles, Augustine Creevy, Sergio Parisse and Billy Vunipola are all exceptional players who could stand up and match any player New Zealand could throw at them. I am convinced talent is not a problem.

The problem is we almost never see exceptional coaching anywhere but from New Zealand. If the world is to catch up to New Zealand it won’t be a matter of copying the All Black game or “playing the game the right way;” it will be a matter of a rugby nation standing up and deciding they want to take their game forward and to the next level.

Perhaps I am being too negative before I have been premitted the chance to be proven wrong. I can only say that England’s Six Nations campaign and the current Super Rugby competition have done little to convince me there will be a different outcome in 2016.

I know full well that perhaps I should give the rugby world a little more time after the 2015 World Cup cycle to prove me wrong and then judge from there.

I do not want New Zealand rugby to fall. I only want the rest of the rugby world to finally up the ante and provide a true challenge for the top dog status.

How sad it is to see number two become the main event.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 May 2016, 23:34
#23
08 May 2016, 23:34#23
Well I still find that short of the truth. We simply don't have big fast men in the backs to equal the likes of Savea and Folau. We do have exceptional small men who can be just as dangerous when the game is wide open. But when it's a clash of bodies we don't have the players to match NZ and Oz.
So our tactics have to be different. The Lions are trying to play like the Chiefs ...it will work occasionally but not enough. And if the Boks try to spread the ball all the time our smaller outside backs will be turned in the tackle, just as the Canes turned the Lions.

That doesn't mean a barrage of up and unders, that doesn't mean all crash ball tactics....but those weapons can be used as part of a broader set of tactics. The best attacking opportunity is from turnover ball....that's where our pace outside can work.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 May 2016, 03:32
#24
09 May 2016, 03:32#24
 This is another worthless theory - we have not got the players and so we must nor use the ball at all.   Just play one-dimensional rugby and maybe there is a small chance of the opposition giving away enough penalties to win the game.   If that does not happen there is no plan B.
The Lions is under constant attack b Mozart - but they beat the Chiefs and the Stormers and the Sharks by the way they played the game.   So there is no justification for playing their game style according to the Meyer clone on this site.   He cannot see that the seriously defective results of the Springboks in 2014 and 2015 stemmed from a style of rugby that cannot ever work out in tests - so what is really the use of debating the issue with a person who thinks rugby is to be played according to 19th century format.         





       
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 May 2016, 03:51
#25
09 May 2016, 03:51#25
"A style of rugby that cannot  ever work out in tests"....but we are ranked third in the world and would still have been second if we played the Bargies in the semis as Australia did. Hysterical ranting from someone whose boobs are bigger than his brain.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
09 May 2016, 04:09
#26
09 May 2016, 04:09#26
@mozzie,

"....but we are ranked third in the world and would have been second if we played the Bargies in the semis like Australia did. Hysterical ranting from the buxom one."
u got some big kahunas to say that brother beeno like comment.

IMO when a team that cant beat a rugby minnow nation like japan, there fans have no business assuming they would have beaten the pumas had they faced them in the semifinals instead of australia.
even more so when u consider the puma s beat the Boks in SA.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 May 2016, 04:45
#27
09 May 2016, 04:45#27
 Ahem, we beat the Bargies a week later. I'm simply appealing to facts....if Oz played NZ they would have lost....if we played the Bargies we would have won. And as a consequence...we would have been second. Thanks for the long hop.


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,271 posts
09 May 2016, 04:46
#28
09 May 2016, 04:46#28
The Boks lost their first ever game to the Japan, to say that they can't beat Japan is an overstatement. A betting man would expect the Boks to win at least 9 times out of 10 regardless of the game plan.
The mistake was playing Schalk at flyhalf and making him a crash ball instead of how he was playing for the Stormers last year with quick passes and offloads, 
It was so predictable that Eddie Jones countered the game with ease. Also the Boks were slow at the breakdown and also did not get any go forward. 
Alberts was finished and Vermeulen has not got his best form back- so the Boks did not get over the gain line. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 May 2016, 04:49
#29
09 May 2016, 04:49#29
 Mozart
Are you happy about SA being ranked third as long as they play dumb rugby?   Is there no reason for trying to improve the game as played by South Africa?   Have we lost the games against Ireland, Wales, New Zealand (three times), Australia (twice), Argentina and Japan in 2014 and 2015 because we played the dumb rugby you advocate?
The argument is getting weirder in very posting by Mozart.   Make no effort to improve our rugby performances - just keep on making the same mistakes we made in the past and according to you we can expect a different result in the end. 
Rank idiocy at work here - I am afraid.              
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 May 2016, 04:49
#30
09 May 2016, 04:49#30
 And Kriel missed a simple tackle, after Coenie got himself yellow carded....it was one of those tail of the probability distribution events.....not some kind of new norm.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 May 2016, 05:04
#31
09 May 2016, 05:04#31
 And Matfield, Burger. Pienaar and Bismarck buggered up throughout that game while playing the repetitive dumb rubbish you favour.  So blame two incidents and forget about the muck ups of the team as the reason for the loss.   What should have been a 20+ plus win was turned into a loss because of two incidents.  However, what else is new here - we have a one-incident fool pretending he knows something about the game of rugby.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
09 May 2016, 05:20
#32
09 May 2016, 05:20#32
@mozzie,

"Ahem, we beat the Bargies a week later. I'm simply appealing to facts....if Oz played NZ they would have lost....if we played the Bargies we would have won. And as a consequence...we would have been second. Thanks for the long hop."
shouldve wouldve couldve, lecister city and the japanese rugby team  have shown that u can appeal to facts all u want, we all know ur assumptions on  how it would have turned out are not definitive no matter how probable.

until the Boks lose the 100% losing percentage they have against puny, weak japan, it would be better for the Bok fans especially u, to not make such bold assumptions about who the Boks can beat.
respect every nation the Boks face like the worthy challenge they are, that way u dont have to wipe the egg of ur face,
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 May 2016, 05:29
#33
09 May 2016, 05:29#33
 Sasue
Don't even try to wipe the egg off Mozart's face - it is a gargantuan task - that one.   He is covered by a mountain of egg and no ordinary human can succeed in clearing it up.    
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 May 2016, 13:10
#34
09 May 2016, 13:10#34
Mozart current standings in the S18 are: 1. Crusaders2. Stormers3. Lions
Bulls are 8thSharks are  9th
If the Bulls & the Sharks are playing "traditional rugby" then it doesn't support your argument.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 May 2016, 16:14
#35
09 May 2016, 16:14#35
 Actually the Bools have won one more point than the Lions, the Sharks one less. The actual rankings are determined by the Pools. So much as I hate doing this to a nice guy like you I'm forced to give you a schplottttttt!
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 May 2016, 16:49
#36
09 May 2016, 16:49#36
Lions have played one less game than the Sharks so that makes your point even weaker for the Lions vs Sharks comparison. 
As for the Bulls, they don't play traditional style rugby anyway in that their backs are involved as I am sure you will find out if you check the stats
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
09 May 2016, 22:12
#37
09 May 2016, 22:12#37
Sharks found form on the back of their defense which led to turnovers and counterattack. Its the bedrock of SA rugby. Any game plan that jeopardizes that will not have long term success.
Good to see them convert those counter attack opportunities with better execution. NZ teams have always been ruthlessly efficient in those areas.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 May 2016, 00:18
#38
10 May 2016, 00:18#38
 Good to see there is one poster who gets it.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 May 2016, 04:44
#39
10 May 2016, 04:44#39
 Mozart
You are completely lost.   You are proud about the junk produced by the Springboks - all of them inclusive of the turnaround penalty provided by Matfield and the gentle handing over of ball possession to the AB's - to the lightweight Barrett - in the Springboks 22 by Burger and losing by 2 points.
In the meantime as is evident you support a game plan of the Bulls of 2004 - when the most one-dimensional game ever was played.   You cannot see that in tests the backline is not there only for defense, but they have another role to play as well.   You fail to understand that Meyer had no reasonable game plan for the WC and as a result that we not only lost the semi - but also the Japan test.
Then you lost it completely by claiming that in the WC the Springboks played a similar game to what the Sharks played on Saturday.  There was not even the remotest similarity between the style of rugby played in the relevant two games.  The one in the WC was a one-dimensional farce - the one on Saturday was a game comprising comprehensive rugby with variations of play during the game.        
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 May 2016, 04:44
#40
10 May 2016, 04:44#40
 Mozart
You are completely lost.   You are proud about the junk produced by the Springboks - all of them inclusive of the turnaround penalty provided by Matfield and the gentle handing over of ball possession to the AB's - to the lightweight Barrett - in the Springboks 22 by Burger and losing by 2 points.
In the meantime as is evident you support a game plan of the Bulls of 2004 - when the most one-dimensional game ever was played.   You cannot see that in tests the backline is not there only for defense, but they have another role to play as well.   You fail to understand that Meyer had no reasonable game plan for the WC and as a result that we not only lost the semi - but also the Japan test.
Then you lost it completely by claiming that in the WC the Springboks played a similar game to what the Sharks played on Saturday.  There was not even the remotest similarity between the style of rugby played in the relevant two games.  The one in the WC was a one-dimensional farce - the one on Saturday was a game comprising comprehensive rugby with variations of play during the game.        
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