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Sharks the best SA franchise in Super Rugby 2012?

Started by Beeno119 REPLIES424 VIEWS· 07 Aug 2012, 15:19
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Aug 2012, 15:19
#1
07 Aug 2012, 15:19#1

MARK KEOHANE, in his weekly Business Day column, writes that while there was no surprise in the Sharks Super Rugby final defeat, they were the best South African side in the tournament. (Hahahahahhahahahaha tell u sanother one mark!! Look at the Log please oak! The Stormers had b yfar the most wins. The sharks only ended well. Over the whole period of the competition the Stormers were the better side. My what a fundamentsal error in logic!!!))

The only surprise in Hamilton on Saturday is that so many of the people I spoke to were surprised by the emphatic nature of the Sharks’ defeat in Super Rugby’s 17th final. (True there were many hyped up chest beating guppies mouthing off for all thye wre worth. That halfwit Barlee was one of them! )

A few, as is the custom in SA, blamed the referee. New Zealand-born Steve Walsh had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of this one. (Plumtree lamented the many mistakes of Walshie baby but in this case, given the exhaustion of the sharkies, it quite possibly would not have affected the result)

Walsh missed an obvious infringement in the last play of the game in 2007’s final and he was blamed for costing the Sharks their first Super Rugby title (And rightly so!). I was among those who caned him, even though it is no secret that the supporter in me has always prized the blue of the Bulls more than any black-and-white tribal strip.

Many of my Bulls mates back in 2007 were quick to point out that Frans Steyn rushed the conversion that would have given the Sharks a two-score advantage going into the final minute of the final, and that even though there was a concession that Walsh was poor the Sharks, playing at home, should have looked after their own destiny. It was Butch James, and not Walsh, who missed a clearance kick for touch, and about half the Sharks forwards couldn’t get a hand on Bryan Habana as he beat several defenders with a step and pace to score what proved to be the decisive try of the final.(Sorry it was no try and hence sharkies were robbed of title)

The Sharks back then really had no reason to complain. They produced rugby of the necessary quality to win the final, but their coach at the time — Dick Muir — wasn’t quite on the button with his substitutions and his two most experienced players, Springbok captain John Smit and fullback Percy Montgomery, watched the final quarter from the touchline.

Muir got it wrong back in 2007 more than Walsh ever did and the Sharks certainly lost the final more than any on-field superiority won the Bulls their first ever title. You can’t say the Sharks lost anything in Hamilton, outside of a good many hours sleep in getting to the New Zealand north island town from Cape Town, where, a week earlier, they had shown incredible spirit and defied the odds to beat SA’s conference winners, the Stormers, who had finished as the overall league winners, which counts for nothing unless you actually stick around to host the final.(It only means nothing because of the faulty way the comp is strutured. Keo you yourself did say the winner of the log shoul dget a trophy and a hefty cash prize - quite right) 

Sharks captain Keegan Daniel refused to use the travel complications as an excuse (What ecuse we are dealing with facts. Trust ou Keegan is not to scared to state the facts. I think I recall him mentioning the travel factor in any caseand rightly so as it must enter any discussion of this farcical final) Likewise coach John Plumtree and any player interviewed.(Also dont beileve that one either)

The Chiefs players, especially their captain, Craig Clarke, were the ones who weren’t going to be lulled by the illusion that they were in a contest.

Clarke dedicated the first bit of his post-final acceptance speech by paying tribute to the Sharks’ season and offering an acknowledgement from within his squad of what the Durban-based team had overcome to make it to Hamilton.

They had scored four tries and emphatically beaten the Bulls in Durban. The bonus point had given them life in the tournament.

What followed was another bonus-point, home win against the Cheetahs to make the top six play-offs. Then it was off to Brisbane, victory there, a flight back to Cape Town, victory there and a flight back to Auckland, New Zealand.

Sure there was hope from every Sharks supporter that the impossible was possible. And there had to be hope because without hope there is nothing.

It is every rugby supporter’s right to always believe that no matter the challenge his team will triumph.(Of course it is a right but dont completely throw away judgement.  Hope to will but acknowledge the realities. My what a show of spinning ou keo is contriving) )

Those who could view the final without the emotional blindfold of simply having to believe the Sharks would win knew it had the potential to get embarrassing if the home team kept their composure and played with the intent and consistency we had seen all season. (True)

I don’t see much point in trying to dissect where it went wrong for the Sharks. The answer quite frankly is when they won in Cape Town.

It was not a fair contest and this should also be viewed in context. This is not a whine from me or Sharks supporters or South Africans. (Twits on anothr board are saying Saffers are whingers. Bwahahahahahahaha they never could see the wood from the trees!!)

It is a mere reflection of the reality of a tournament in which if you host a final and play an opponent from another country you don’t lose easily. In 17 years the only team to dream the dream and get the win have been the Crusaders.

The Chiefs won the collisions and won the game. Forget any reference to an opening 20 minutes when the Sharks controlled the ball and field position because they certainly were not controlling anything in the tackle.

They played as if they were sleepwalking — and you can’t blame them — on a day complicated by a Chiefs unit who played with the conviction of a team whose players knew they could not lose.

If finals are to be conducted like this rather have no final and award  trophy to the side topping the  log.  ie the best side over the duration of the tournament.  Makes more sense to me.

 

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
07 Aug 2012, 16:20
#2
07 Aug 2012, 16:20#2

@beeno1,

 

not surprised at all that u yokels would want the leader ladders to finish on top, despite how unfair that outcome would be for the following reasosn,,,

- stormers didnt play the chiefs and while i know u delusional stormer fans think that u would have, keep note of the fact that stormers lost 2 of their 3 games to the sharks and lost their match to the crusaders.
chiefs on the other hand beat the sharks in durban and in the finals and also beat the crusaders twice in three attempts, something the stormers have never done, considering they have only beaten the crusaders 4 times ever.

-NZ conference is way harder then both the OZ conference (obviously) an the SA conference.
entering rnd 16 there was only 9 teams who were playing for a finals berth and 4 of them were from NZ. im sure the chiefs would have loved the easy run the stormers had, playing the cheetahs and lions twice and not having to face the crusaders 3 times, aye???
 

 

the sharks travel was ridiculous, but credit to them for not being like some of their chump as fans and just getting on with the job. its been said by many folks high in the rugby that SARU was responsible for the sharks travel, but lets just stick with what stormer fans know best and thats blaming the ref and taking credit for being No1 saffa team, despite getting pwned by the sharks.


question - what do classy stormer fans and stormers attacking rugby both have in common???
answer - they are both figments of ur imagination, LMAO, :P

SM
SS-MoleRookie59 posts
07 Aug 2012, 16:30
#3
07 Aug 2012, 16:30#3

 Jaque Nienaaber- the Stormers defence coach(or only coach) is also set to leave the Stormers. No defence along with no attack- The Stormers could turn into Eastern Kings

GA
garethedwardsClub Pro240 posts
07 Aug 2012, 17:46
#4
07 Aug 2012, 17:46#4

Chiefs impressed all season and without a shadow of a doubt in my mind were/are the best franchise.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Aug 2012, 19:07
#5
07 Aug 2012, 19:07#5

 

A full strength Stormers side plus a decent ref and we would have given the crusties a good hiding. Chiefs would have suffered the same fate.  Just be thankful you escaped a good whipping. Man we have a pack close to 940 kg at full strength and your wee lads would have been pounded into submission. Plumtree experienced something of this packs potential and remarked that the physicality of the Stormers was great and that forward power had shifted south. This from the coach of a pack that is rated.  (I posted all this on the board for all to see) It was, as I have  said, a great tragedy that the Stormers power pack never happened due to injuries.  Eyes would have been opened for sure. Some here think we must adopt the netball style played by Nz  - hahahahahahaha hilarious. Keegan is the man and wee chilli boy and Juandre the  type of Bok forwards we need. Add in the might of spies and how can we fail.  Let’s get in all the pap forwards we can and run the ball all match. Bwahahahahhaha  side splitting stuff!!!  No clue about Bok rugby whatsoever.

Go Meyer build the Bok side like you built the bulle.  2015 is when we come on stream. Any earlier is a bonus.

Garethed you are confusing attractiveness in style with what was the best. We made many a side look bad. Chiefs did not have that privilege.

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
07 Aug 2012, 19:36
#6
07 Aug 2012, 19:36#6

sorry to say but i reckon the chiefs would have raped the stormers defence....SBW last year made JDV his bunny.

 

the stormers had a lucky draw with this flawed super rugby comp's fixtures.

 

we had a lot a dodge calls with off the balls stuff in hamilton but its part of the game and if you get away with it fair game in my view. so saying that the stormers would have been a better bet is just a slap in the face for all the sharks men around, that being said the sharks cracked the stormers wall and beat them in 2 games this season.

GA
garethedwardsClub Pro240 posts
07 Aug 2012, 20:04
#7
07 Aug 2012, 20:04#7

Sorry Beeno1 I simply don't agree, but we will never know I guess since they never met.

So I won't argue :)

 

Regarding the draw, it doesn't look to one sided, maybe you could argue Chiefs had more games against the mid range teams. But, the Stormers had one more "top 6" game.

Think having the face the Crusaders for 3 games and then the Sharks for 2 is enough for me personally.

 

    DHL Stormers   Chiefs   1 DHL Stormers         2 Chiefs         3 Reds AW   AL   4 Crusaders AL   HL,AW, *HW   5 Vodacom Bulls HW,AW   HW   6 Sharks HW,AL,*HL *6 AW, *HW *5 7 Brumbies     HW   8 Hurricanes HW   HW,AL   9 Highlanders AW   HL,AW   10 Toyota Cheetahs HW,AW   AW   11 Waratahs HW   HW   12 Blues HW 6 HW,AW 9 13 Rebels HW       14 Force AW   AW   15 MTN Lions HW,AW 4 HW 2             AW Away Win   AL Away Loss   HW Home Win   HL Home Loss  

 

 

SM
SS-MoleRookie59 posts
08 Aug 2012, 00:32
#8
08 Aug 2012, 00:32#8

 the Sharks had the most injuries at the start of the tournament out of all the SA teams- except for the Lions. I doubt the Lions were contendors so lets forget about them for the moment. 

The Sharks could have finished up much higher in the log- with a far reate of injuries to start the tournament. As the competition went on the Sharks got Stronger, with th Stormers weaker and weaker. 

 

Lets be honest no many people were supporting the Stormers negative style of rugby- and it was not entertaining to watch. It was like the old bulls style, with the Bulls at least now days scoring tries

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
08 Aug 2012, 00:44
#9
08 Aug 2012, 00:44#9

Beeno, no ifs and buts. You're only as good as your last game. We lost to the Sharks, so they are better than us. We have been more consistent for the rest of the season though, so there is a bit of mitigating circumstance for us, but for now we have to take it on the chin until next time our teams meet, which is coming Saturday BTW.

RA
radtad1Club Pro273 posts
08 Aug 2012, 00:55
#10
08 Aug 2012, 00:55#10

The Stormers have proven that they are worthy challengers but no where near champions yet. They had their best opportunity to make a home final and in my opinion were simply not up for the occasion nor led well enough by JDV.

 

As for Beenos ranting no matter how much logical information is given to explain the failiure and underperformance of the Stormers, it will not compute with him as you sincerely cannot have a discussion with stupidity. I suggest everyone just stop feeding the monkey his peanuts.....lol

 

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Aug 2012, 11:26
#11
08 Aug 2012, 11:26#11

Yes Draad the competition was played over a number of months and over that extended period the Stormers had the best results and topped the log. Hence they were the best. (I note ou Barlee really thought the sharks would win in nz - hahahahahahahahhahaha what a half wit!) NO RUBBISH ABOUT BEING AS GOOD AS YOUR LAST GAME. YOU TOP THE LOG BY YOUR PERFORMANCE OVER THE WHOLE COMPETITION.

The chiefs struggled to beat the bulle at home wining 28 -22.  We went to Loftus and beat the bulle at altitude with a severely depleted pack!!!!!! What happened to the chieifes last time they played at Loftus bwahahahahahaha.

No more nonsense about the chiefs being the better side please.

If anyone wants to visit ragtad please go to the zoo!  If you see a really dumb chimp its him! Bwahahahahaha The side topping the log are nowhere near champions  yet".  How daft and arrogant do you get!!!  Hahahahahahahahahaha spoken like a complete MONG. Dont choke on the peanuts ragtad!

Beeno  - myth debunker par excellence!

 

BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
08 Aug 2012, 12:02
#12
08 Aug 2012, 12:02#12

 Beeno, its a silly assumption to make that because the Bulls beat the Chiefs and the Stormers beat the bulls that the Stormers are automatically better than Chiefs. If it worked like that, we would be able to predict the winner of the comp in round 1. Some teams game plan is more effective against different opposition. The Bulls are not the Stormers and vice versa. If that were the case, then are the Lions better than Sharks because they beat us last game and are the Cheetahs better than Sharks because they beat the Hurricanes and the Sharks didnt?? No they are not but on that particular day they were. Rugby is not played on paper and you can be hot one week and everything click and the next week you can be terrible because the opposition is prepared for you. Thats what makes this competition so unpredictable and for that reason, awesome...Any team can beat any other team on their day... Rebels beat the Crusaders...Are they a better team? Stormers had confidence and they had some good wins but they started going backwards in form because teams were preparing for their all defence game plan. Stormers are far from the finished product so you really need to take them off this pedestal you have them on. Had the Chiefs travelled to CPT, I would have put my money on them to finish the job. Chiefs are far more "all rounded and complete" as a unit than the Stormers. Great on defence and phenomenal with ball in hand. Messam will match Schalk and Thompson will match Vermuelen. Give them Kahui back and Stormers would have kak'd. They did top the log but ironically were the worst of the semi-finalists...Far too many flaws in that set-up and they were badly exposed...They hide behind this mighty stormers banner but under it all, they are really just a mild breeze ;-) Now repeat after me, SHARKS FOREVER!!! Sharks have lost plenty to Boks, Stormers have not but best you start making your excuses now because the Sharks are coming this Saturday too tame WP...doom doom doom doom!! (Jaws music) ;-)

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Aug 2012, 12:24
#13
08 Aug 2012, 12:24#13

So illogical Bok "you can be hot one week --- and terible the next" Can happen this way - Stormers were fast asleep in first half against sharkies.

So the only true measure has to be the form over the period of the comp. Here there can be no question as to who did the best - the Stormers. Thanks for maing my point.

Our win over the bulls at loftus was just one indication. We only lost 2 in topping the log is another.

Beeno not putting up with the ill informed trashing the Storners amazing year. Nowhere near winning the championship. Hahahahahahahhaha get real.

Could all nz fans here please just declare their undying loyalty to their favourite nz rugby side and have done with it. We have these types unfortunately at Newlands but at least they are open about it. and dont pretend to be saffar supporters. Bwahahahahahaha the nz bias is disgusting!

Oh I must add messam and thompson would get pumped by Burger and Vermuelen - no contest really.

The chiefs would struggle all macth to hold a full strength Stormers pack and the backs would be sufocated to death.  Please dont imagine the Stormers cant beat the Chiefs oaks. Show some respect to the log toppers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RA
radtad1Club Pro273 posts
08 Aug 2012, 13:08
#14
08 Aug 2012, 13:08#14

Just wanted to swear my allegiance to NZ and how they contribute continually to the gimp Beeno's fear of being unveiled as an actual kiwi in bok colours...........what a frekin monkey beeno ...hehe

BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
08 Aug 2012, 13:29
#15
08 Aug 2012, 13:29#15

 Beeno Beeno Beeno, so many words so little thought behind them..Please dont tell me you believe the Stormers "were fast asleep against the Sharks" in the first half..No team is over half asleep..I think what you meant to say is the Sharks pressured the Stormers, took them out of their comfort zone (not hard to do) and exposed their game plan so they had no answer..That my ignorant friend, is what it means to be fast asleep on the rugby field. I support my team until the end. I support the Sharks and the Boks. I dont support the other SA franchises although I like them to do well as it bodes well for the Boks but I dont lose any sleep over their losses. By saying messam and Thompson are no match for Burger and Vermuelen is not worth a debate. Suffocate their backs?? You telling me Kerr-Barlow, Cruden, Kahui, SBW, Robbie Robinson, Masaga, Tim Nanai-Williams and Aeseali Tikoirotuma are guys that are easily contained? That is the best backline in the competition bro barr none..Not even Crusaders are better.Get over topping the log...Its the knockout games that counted and credit to the Chiefs for proving their mettle. Stormers = no BMT...You are becoming a laugh now Beeno...Snap out of it and lets talk rugby..Maybe WP can swop jerseys with the Sharks this weekend so they can get a good sniff of what a winner smells like. I will try get hold of the Chiefs tomorrow and ask them if they willing to swop their Final winners medals with the Stormers "log topping" medals...Topping the log actually makes it more embarrassing...Couldnt convert when it mattered..BOOM!!!

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Aug 2012, 13:50
#16
08 Aug 2012, 13:50#16

illogocal bok you may possibly have heard it mentioned how sides coming off a weeks break often dont perform that well in their comeback week. They lose an edge. We had two weeks off so what happened in the first half was understandable.

Illogical Bok  for how many seasons has the Stormers defence suffocated teams. who is disputing they are the best defensive side.

Why in the world should I get over topping the log. It means we were the best team over the period of the competition. Now for some weird reason we would have no chance against the chiefs - bwaaahahahahahahhaahhahahaha how logcal is that!! 

Please illogoical bok dont mention players like messam and thompson in the same breath as world class players like Schalk and Vermuelen. Hahahahhaha very funny. Our two guys are two of the most physical 80 minute goers in world rugby. They would blow those two pansies away! Hahahahaha

That boom is you have is another brain spasm illogical bok! bring on the sharkies on saturday.I will not begetting carried away by the Currie cup  a third tier comp. We won the Sa Conference Cup and thats what counts. 

 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
08 Aug 2012, 13:59
#17
08 Aug 2012, 13:59#17

A stupid thread with a lot of crap arguments. This one by Boklogic is one of the very few meaningful arguments:

 

"Stormers had confidence and they had some good wins but they started going backwards in form because teams were preparing for their all defence game plan."

 

 

In their last few games they were on the receiving end as far as try scoring was concerned, and now they are set to loose their defence coach. They are in serious kak if that would come true. Look at their try results from their games since the one against the Sharks in May, and it was clear that the red lights were coming on, but the bright Mr Coetzee insisted that they were on the right path:

Sharks 3 - Stormers 2

Bulls 1 - Stormers 1

Stormers 3 - Lions  2

Stormers 1 - Cheetas 0

Stormers 2 - Rebels 3

Stormers 1 - Sharks 2.

All in all they scored 10, and the gave away 11 in their last 6 games.

 

Compare that to their first 6 games.

Stormers 3 - Hurricanes 2

Stormers 0 - Sharks 0

Stormers 2 - Blues 2

Stormers 2 - Lions 1

Bulls 2 - Stormers 1

Stormers 2 - Highlanders 0

They scored 10 and gave away only 6.

 

 

The Stormers gave away 21 tries over the entire competition, but the alarming part is that more than half of the tries against them came in the last 6 games out of a total of 16 games in the competition. And bright spark Coetzee and all the Stormers fans were thinking that they were on target......................? Bull twang. They were busy going down...................... again. The Sharks was the only SA team on the up in the last part of the competition. Give them the credit that is due to them.

 

This coming from a die-hard Bulls supporter.

 

 

 

BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
08 Aug 2012, 14:11
#18
08 Aug 2012, 14:11#18

 Ceradyne, nice work. Love it when people have stats to back shit up. That is one thing Beeno can never provide. He just forces his often outlandish views on people.

Beeno, I can argue with you logically because you are not logical. Your statements possess no substance. No one ever agrees with you. As I said before. I wont argue with you on the Messam and Thompson thing..Not worth it. Schalk is far from his best and Vermuelen is untested at national level..

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Aug 2012, 14:48
#19
08 Aug 2012, 14:48#19

Windpomp fair comment re the decline. However the cause is not in any way alarming. Young forwards lack a degree of stamina that improves as they mature. Kitshoff , Malherber Etzebeth , Elstadt, Kolisi etc were playing bettter in the earlier part of the season. Massive loose forward injuries made the rotations not as easy to make etc. No side in the comp had as many very young forwards as we did. They were starting as well. Coetzee is right to be optimistic in this respect. Hopefully Quinn Roux will be back as well in two seaons time.

Next year these youngsters and youngsters like Deon Fourie and Koster will be even better. Players like Harris are relatively young and Bekker looks like he could be over his injury problems. If Burger comes back we will have the best pack in the super comp. Who can dispute this.

Nieaber gone may prove to be a blessing as I expained elsewhere. van Der heever must start with aplon or joe at 15. Hopefully we uncover a few backs in Currie Cup. Howard and Du plessis will probably get a chance etc.

The sharkies had a good season but were negatively effected by injuries at the begining of the season. We were effected for the duration of the season with key palyers out and even reserve players injured.The sharkies will be strong next season.

Bulle should also improve with some exciting youngsters coming through. Bulle need a new captain and tighthead and hooker. Get a better pack.

Vermulen would have played international rugby by now but for injuries. This 116 kg battler is precisely the type if forward that gives a pack mongrel. Far better than spies!. Burger was SA player of the year last year!!! I Agree however we will have to see how well he comes back.

No nonsense about anyone forcing his views on anybody illogical bok. Firstly you are free to read what views you want. I do not force you to read my posts or accept my views. Hahahhahaha again the lack of logic. Wake up dope!!

Please oaks this idea that the chiefs would be sure to whip the Stormers is a figment of your imagination. It would have been a very interesting tussell. If we had a fully fit side I would back the Stormers to wn. As we topped the log claims that we were nowhere near wining this are rediculous and are dismissed with costs! as are stupid statements re topping the log means zip or winning the SA Conference means zip. Get real!

Beeno not impressed by all the hot air and bluster.

 

 

GA
garethedwardsClub Pro240 posts
08 Aug 2012, 16:34
#20
08 Aug 2012, 16:34#20

Your "logic" of using the Bulls game is completely flawed... But, I will humour you and make a comparison based on it anyway

I will compare the same team and same venue on a per game basis.

 

*I do not beleive this is a valid arguement, but since Beeno1 is trying to use to justify his arguement. I will use it to show him it doesn't show he Stormers in the glorious light he beleives it does.

 

HOME               Vodacom Bulls               Chiefs 28 - 22 Vodacom Bulls Waikato DHL Stormers 20 - 17 Vodacom Bulls Newlands         Hurricanes               Chiefs 33 - 14 Hurricanes Waikato DHL Stormers 39 - 26 Hurricanes Newlands         Waratahs               Chiefs 30 - 13 Waratahs Waikato DHL Stormers 19 - 13 Waratahs Newlands         Blues               Chiefs 29 - 14 Blues Waikato DHL Stormers 27 - 17 Blues Newlands         MTN Lions               Chiefs 34 - 21 MTN Lions ECO Light Stadium, Pukekohe DHL Stormers 27 - 17 MTN Lions Newlands             *Chiefs win every game by more points         AWAY               Reds               Reds 42 - 27 Chiefs Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane Reds 13 - 23 DHL Stormers Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane         Crusaders               Crusaders 19 - 24 Chiefs McLean Park, Napier Crusaders 31 - 24 DHL Stormers New AMI Stadium, Christchurch         Sharks               Sharks 25 - 20 DHL Stormers Mr Price Kings Park, Durban Sharks 12 - 18 Chiefs Mr Price Kings Park, Durban         Highlanders               Highlanders 21 - 27 Chiefs Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin Highlanders 6 - 21 DHL Stormers Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin         Toyota Cheetahs               Toyota Cheetahs 33 - 39 Chiefs Free State Stadium, Bloemfontein Toyota Cheetahs 6 - 13 DHL Stormers Free State Stadium, Bloemfontein         Force               Force 12 - 20 Chiefs NIB Stadium, Perth Force 3 - 17 DHL Stormers NIB Stadium, Perth         *Stormers beat Force, Cheetahs and Highlanders by more points                 Home Games               Chiefs 5/5     Stormers 0/5             Away Games               Stormers 4/6 *Stormers lose to Crusaders and Sharks Chiefs 2/6 *Chiefs lose to Reds                 * 7 out of the 11 games show the Chiefs with the superior result.

— END OF THREAD —

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