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Should we be worried?

Started by biltongbek34 REPLIES364 VIEWS· 26 Nov 2014, 17:49
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BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
26 Nov 2014, 17:49
#1
26 Nov 2014, 17:49#1

I have gone through the list of "senior" players Heyneke Meyer has not yet written off, players who has been selected by him over the past 3 years, players that played in the previous world cup who he might still and in many cases still do think are the best in their position.


Meyer has not given up on them.


WHat if he selected this starting XV in the next world cup?



1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Jannie
4. Etzebeth – NEW
5. Vicki
6. Schalk BUrger
7. Willem ALberts
8. Duane Vermeulen – NEW
9. Fourie du Preez
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jaque FOurie
14. JP Pietersen.
15. WIllie le Roux. -NEW


Should we be worried, because it is not impossible?

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,293 posts
26 Nov 2014, 18:08
#2
26 Nov 2014, 18:08#2
Without Morne Steyn that would be a good team in the Northern Hemisphere. The backs could be a bit short of pace, but with the likes of Kolbe or Senatala on the bench could be ok. 
Of this list, it would be good to replace Jannie, Morne, and maybe JP. My biggest concern is JDV. He is not as good as what he was, and may be even worse next year. 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,293 posts
26 Nov 2014, 18:08
#3
26 Nov 2014, 18:08#3
Without Morne Steyn that would be a good team in the Northern Hemisphere. The backs could be a bit short of pace, but with the likes of Kolbe or Senatala on the bench could be ok. 
Of this list, it would be good to replace Jannie, Morne, and maybe JP. My biggest concern is JDV. He is not as good as what he was, and may be even worse next year. 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,293 posts
26 Nov 2014, 18:08
#4
26 Nov 2014, 18:08#4
Without Morne Steyn that would be a good team in the Northern Hemisphere. The backs could be a bit short of pace, but with the likes of Kolbe or Senatala on the bench could be ok. 
Of this list, it would be good to replace Jannie, Morne, and maybe JP. My biggest concern is JDV. He is not as good as what he was, and may be even worse next year. 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,293 posts
26 Nov 2014, 18:08
#5
26 Nov 2014, 18:08#5
Without Morne Steyn that would be a good team in the Northern Hemisphere. The backs could be a bit short of pace, but with the likes of Kolbe or Senatala on the bench could be ok. 
Of this list, it would be good to replace Jannie, Morne, and maybe JP. My biggest concern is JDV. He is not as good as what he was, and may be even worse next year. 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,293 posts
26 Nov 2014, 18:08
#6
26 Nov 2014, 18:08#6
The duplicate functionality is working well today
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Nov 2014, 19:21
#7
26 Nov 2014, 19:21#7
I'll  take that team over the team that plays Wales this weekend.  My main concern is our back 3 on defence. Let's face it, Mvovu, Hendricks and Willie does not actually give me confidence on defence. Ad to that that the fact that Jean does not defend well in the 13 channel AND when last did Mvovu have proper game practise? Meyer might go down as the second coach to lose to Wales, in fact there is a more than 50% chance of that happening. What a desaster! Hope I'm wrong though.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Nov 2014, 19:35
#8
26 Nov 2014, 19:35#8

That is the team our useless clown will select......but for Schalk at 6, I reckon he will select Louw at 6, another old man anyway.


Sharktwat reckons its a good side......heaven help us.......talk about clueless  

BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
26 Nov 2014, 21:19
#9
26 Nov 2014, 21:19#9

So why would Meyer select Vermeulen in the World Cup ? What is wrong with Ssssssssspies?


He knows the Bok culture, traditions (same thing?) and all those important issues which is required to be a respected Bok.  

Remember form is temporary, class is everlasting.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2014, 21:47
#10
26 Nov 2014, 21:47#10
That team of BB includes 11 players that buggered up comprehensively in 2011 and aside from the loss in the quautefinal against Australia - struggeld in the pool matches.  The team also included 6 players from teh 2007 W C - and some of the members on this site expect from that collection of rugby geriatrics not to have gone back badly in performances.
If there is one thing that I really don't understand about rugby is that how players getting older can be expected to maintain their performance levels.
I would not be worried at all - I would expect the team not to get through to the quarterfinal and disgrace SA comprehensively.   Lets look at the team more carefully:-
Willie le Rouc - no problem
JP Pietersen  -  Slow and really produced nothing since 2012
Jacque Fourie - Slow and useless in attacking play 
Jean de Villiers - Serious loss of form since 2013 - very questionable this year
Bryan Habana -  Ditto
Morne Steyn -  Anightmare waiting to happen in real life
Fourie du Preez  - Invisable since his return to test rugby
Duane Vermeulen - no problem
Willem Alberts -  The most useless loosie known to mankind
Schalk Burger -   ?????????????
Victor Matfield  -   Was statistically and otherwise a flop in the EOYT
Eben Etzebneth  -  no problem
Jannie du Plessis -  in serious reverse gear modum
Bismrack           -   Serious loss of form since 2013 - very questionable this year

Tendai Mtawarire  -  ??????????????
Most of the players were bad this year - how much worse will they be next year?
All i can say is that if Meyer is stupid enough to go to the WC with that collection - note I do not even called them a team - then Heaven help us - we are doomed.   
BB  - this is not April's Fools Day - - please not post spomething like this rubbish - it may cause heart attacks by some real rugby lovers.  
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
26 Nov 2014, 22:03
#11
26 Nov 2014, 22:03#11

Just waking you up to the possibility we might be facing Mike.


At least now you are prepared  

3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
26 Nov 2014, 23:17
#12
26 Nov 2014, 23:17#12
What happened to Spies? He was one of the best 8's in the world a few years ago, was awesome on Rugby 08 haha. You reckon Meyer might bring him back in? Or is he over seas currently? 
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Nov 2014, 00:18
#13
27 Nov 2014, 00:18#13
Spies is i njured, he is recovering still. 
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
27 Nov 2014, 00:23
#14
27 Nov 2014, 00:23#14
 Been recovering for 5 years. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Nov 2014, 01:13
#15
27 Nov 2014, 01:13#15
Now this team would really scare me:
GoosenJJ weet mosDie AllendeStepfonteinMove-ouLamb chopsGo CartBlitshoffBritsMal HerbeLompSteffonteinLaggiesDu Plessier Whitely
Hell after 5 minutes, Goosen and Steffontein will be injured. The oldies would whip these guys by 30 points



 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2014, 04:52
#16
27 Nov 2014, 04:52#16
 Mozart
The moment you gaive an assessment as a team - one has to start wondering what you get right ever - when giving a player performance assessment - you always are wrong - ALWAYS.
The team you mentioned have some good players in it - better than the ex-players mentioned by BB - who should not even be a 100 miles from the Springbok squad.
*   Goosen is a good back-up for Willie le Roux
*   Pietersen is way past his pbest lost too much pace.  Any sppedy player - even JJ would be ebtter than he is at present.
*    I would gladly take d Allende ahead of the paceless Fourie who cannot play attacking rugby at all anymore
*    If De Villiers keep going backwards in form as he did from last year to this year - he will be a serious risk next year.  Anyboody will be ebtter than him - Serfontein definitely.
*   Same with Habana - but I am not a Mvovo supporter
*    There are six flyhalfs in SA better than useless Morne - the great game loser.   Lambie definitely is and so is  Pollard,  Goosen and Boshoff.
*    Du Preez showed nothing since his return to test rugby - so what will he show next year?   Poorer than he was thus far since hisreturn to test rugnby?  If so anybody would eb an imprvovement on him.
*    Nobody would want to change Vermeulen 
*   Willem Alberts is a poor replica of Bakkies Botha - his work rate is an abomination.  There are at last six better blindsiders in SA better than that clown.  Labuschagne is definitely one.
*    Is Burger at this stage  better than Louw and Coetzee?  Not a chance in hell of that.
*    Matfield is rubbish - his line out work has gone backwards by leaps and bound since JUne.   Physically weak and useless is Tight 5 play - and like in the past he moonlights in the abckline and does zero in  Tight 5 p[lay.   Anybdoy will be better than this  Slapgat Jolly Jumper. 
*   Nobody wants to replace Etzebbeth
*   Jannie - poor Jannie - going in reverse gear and producing nothing outside of scrumming.   He went backward in form ths ear faster than a jetliner would manage.  There are at least five better titghtheads than this one in SA at present
*   Britz is your kind of selection - he is in the age group you favour so heavily - nobody wants him anyway.  He would be near to last in a line-up of ten hookers in SA.
*   Npbdy would suggest Kitsshoff as loosehead - but tere may eb a problem atloosehead - since Beast is not the player he used to eb.
My iselection that would not be the lunacy posted by BB and yours will be the following:-
15  Willie le Roux 14  Van Wyk13  De Allende12  De Villiers  "11  Habana   "10  Pollard  9  Reinach  8  Vermeulen  7  Arno Botha  6  Louw  5  Du Toit  4  Etebeth  3  Malherbe  2  Strauss  1  Beast    *
16   Bismarck17   Nyakane18   Redleinghuys19   De Jager20   Coetzee21   Groom22   Lambie23   Goosen
*    If the deterioration in form displayed this year continues - these players will have to be replaced aad Serfontein - already better than DE Villiers - comes into the picture at 12 -  Senatla ahead of Habana - Schalk van der Merwe comes into the picture than ahead of Beast
The team listed by tme has a chance of winning the WC - the donkeys of BB will get nowhere - like they did in the 2011 WC - only worse next time around.   

                      
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
27 Nov 2014, 04:58
#17
27 Nov 2014, 04:58#17
 Mike theirs one player you missed. That could make a difference for you guys in England. Francois Steyn . Thats a good team on paper Mike. But they well need to be prooven. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2014, 05:07
#18
27 Nov 2014, 05:07#18
 Francois Steyn OMG 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Nov 2014, 05:25
#19
27 Nov 2014, 05:25#19
Well let's look at the logic. Van Wyk hasn't done enough for Bok selection....in fact he hasn't done as much as Senatla and Kolbe.
I don't rate Steppie, but de Allende was less ready.
Reinach. Man was he poor against Italy....a runner not a scrummie. He has now been charged down in every possible way.
Malherbe....spent more time flat on his face than upright against the Bargies . Then he got hurt....again.
Du Toit and Etzebeth are very similar players, but Etzebeth is proven...Stephanie has been far more hurt than active.
Likewise on Botha, what do we know about who he is now after a year plus away from the game.

These are all stupid choices, silly sentimental favouritism. And look at your bench....Lambie and Goosen, but no centres. Groom as your sub, even as a Stormers fan I would never make that choice. Silly stuff. And Lomp...ahead of Matfield, Flip, or Willemse. Amazing.

Are you serious or is this some kind of joke?


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2014, 05:59
#20
27 Nov 2014, 05:59#20
 OK lets look at the ebst line-out jumper int he Workd - according to the hype - Matfield:-
June Tests (3)
Own throw -   26Opposition throw  -  2
November tests (3)
Own throw  -  17Opposition throw - 0
Matfield is worth zero in Tight 5 play and in a matter of 4 months his line out takes on own throw has deteriorated by 30% on own throw and imeasurably in oppoition throw-in.  So is he the line out jumper that makes the grade - the answer is NO.   He is a liability in the Tight 5 and should not be anywhere near the squad - amazing that you cannot see and understand that.   Flip is a penalty liability and Willemse is totally untested and he will not be tested in Super 15 eiteer - amazing.  
I struggle with the wings - since Pietersen is too poor to play as he lost all the pace he probably have had and Habana is not anywhere near his previous form.  He has shown zero in the RC and in the EOYT tests.
Stupid Mozart does not realize why the bench selections has been made the way it was.   
Willie can play at both full back and wing - so he can move to the wing if a wing is injured.
Pollard can play both flyhalf and 12 - so he can move to 12 if a player is injured.
Lambie and Goosen covers both full back and flyhalf and Goosen can even fit in on the wing.
Your BS stories about Reinach and De Jager has been exposed beyond recognition.  I picked Reinach because Du Preez has been invisiable in all tests he played in since his reurn - he does not even have speed anymore.    Pienaar is also a player in serious decline in performance .   Both had minimal game time on test level this year and will not have much games in 2015 either - because of their injuries.     Especially Du Preez will have a maximum of 10 games between June 2014 and May 2015 - how would that imp act on his performances?
Players should be selected based on performance not on reputation - especially of the reputation does not equal the performance requirements.    



3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
27 Nov 2014, 06:26
#21
27 Nov 2014, 06:26#21
 I have to agree Re Matfeild. I remember in the last test of NZ Vs SA. NZ were leading with about 3 mins to go. Matfeild had the ball, had a lazy run up I think Read smashed him, wasen't even a big tackle, standard tackle. Matfeild dropped his lollies . Please Please pretty please keep starting him. 
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Nov 2014, 08:59
#22
27 Nov 2014, 08:59#22

 1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Jannie
4. Etzebeth – NEW
5. Vicki
6. Schalk Burger
7. Willem ALberts
8. Duane Vermeulen – NEW
9. Fourie du Preez
10. Morne Steyn - TO BE FAIR MEYER SEEMS DONE WITH HIM
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jaque Fourie - RETIRED
14. JP Pietersen.
15. WIllie le Roux. -NEW



My immediate thinking is we now need Jean de Villiers to retire, then Serfontein can move to his preferred position, unless of course Meyer decides to keep him there and sticks De Allende in at 12.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Nov 2014, 09:43
#23
27 Nov 2014, 09:43#23
 
Find a 13 ... don't play anyone out of position. We have plenty class outside centers ... De Allende is not one of them. He is a 12.


BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Nov 2014, 09:45
#24
27 Nov 2014, 09:45#24
You got to make Meyer understand that. I doubt he listens though.  
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
27 Nov 2014, 11:09
#25
27 Nov 2014, 11:09#25
1. The Beast 2. Bismark Du Pleesi 3. Frans Malhebe 4. Du Toit 5. Estebeth 6. Louwe 7. Arno Botha 8. Vermulen 9. Reinach 10. Lambie 11. Habana 12. De Allende 13. Serfointain De Allende 14. Hendricks 15. Le Roux 16. Strauss 17. Coenie Ouestahazen 18. Trevor Nyakene 19. De Jager 20. Coetzee 21. Houggard 22. Pollard 23. Goosen
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Nov 2014, 11:11
#26
27 Nov 2014, 11:11#26
 That is the beginning of a good team 3ku1, just swop Malherbe and Beast around  but you aren't solving the midfield yet.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Nov 2014, 11:26
#27
27 Nov 2014, 11:26#27
Not bad 3 IQ.  Pollard is the man firstly. By next year I tnink guys like Kitshoff, Nyanke and particularly Du Toit may have overtaken Beast.Louw and Vermuelen for NH conditions are fine. Arno Botha - we shall have to see how he goes. I would like to see one fast loosie in there. Maybe Whitely or Kriel or even Labuschagne. Having a proepr tight five in there allows this. Willemse for NH conditions is a MUST have.Serfontein and Allende must be paired.JJ must be tried on the wing. He could make a very good test winger.Kolbe MUST move to scrummie. He could be world class.
Van Wyk needs a chance. Habana and Hendricks are concerns Bryan as noted by many has not looked sharp this year. JP has never always lacked a yard and his attitude now is also slack. Hendricks must work on defence.
So we find that Meyer has not actually built up his world cup squad as well as one would have hoped. He has squandered time like a billionaire. Wasting time with matfiled, Bakkies (Retired re tests), Guthro, Jaque Fourie (Retired re tests) etc. 
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
27 Nov 2014, 13:43
#28
27 Nov 2014, 13:43#28
HM sometimes puzzles me...he is basically a sound coach but he has his flaws...he does good things and then imo silly things...there is no doubt he has good qualities but his biggest weakness, no really a weakness but a flaw...he is typically SA conservative...fear of experiment makes him unpopular with more creative, innovative and liberal selectors...he fears to throw the risk to the wind and should imo be more intuitive to take calculated risks...the old adage :"Nothing ventured nothing gained" should apply. The one coach in the past who had these cojones was Mac...a lot of his ventures did not reap immediate results...Luyt always an impatient man who wanted immediate results stuffed up...Kitch inherited Mac's groundwork and completed it well...the sad thing Kitch was in bad health...suffering from cancer.

Mac would have finished the job...well that's the opinion of a few Shark's players that I gathered in the old days...Pieter Muller whom I met once expressed something like this over a few beers at the Keg and Trout...Pieter Muller a player ,I respect indeed him Danie Gerber.... the best inside and outside centres ever in this country. The one the best defensive (PM) and the best attacking (DG).  
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Nov 2014, 13:46
#29
27 Nov 2014, 13:46#29
Conservative and loyal to a fault. That is ou r coach. 
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
27 Nov 2014, 14:07
#30
27 Nov 2014, 14:07#30
Well I hope that learning the hard way  and it is very hard to coach talented and ambitious young men...is going to grow HM...he is a sound and what I've heard through the grape vine a likeable man who has sound principles. Your public, although a catalyst is not a direction because most the opinions come from biaseness and frustration and impatience...the biggest flaw of all in SA is step by step building. Rome was never built in a day...you should experiment with younger players long before the WC...immediate results are nice but are costly in the longer term...one should try and keep a good balance and reserves but ignoring your younger talent has huge cost and puts who back into a spot of panic. Coaches should be showing progressive growth (and not immediate) should be kept for 2 tenures...4 years are not ideal...because coaches that are good are normally patient characters, slow builders with a longer term vision.

The trouble is we live in a fast food world...appetites and pleasure must be satisfied in the shortest space of time. This always results in sixes and sevens and bad results...we pay heavily for our lack of patience and insight.
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
28 Nov 2014, 01:10
#31
28 Nov 2014, 01:10#31
 Pollard is the future for sure, but I think Currently Lambie is solid at ten, and pollard offers alot off the bench. 
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
28 Nov 2014, 05:42
#32
28 Nov 2014, 05:42#32
 You know you need wee Morne ,not for you saffas this fancy schmancy ball in hand runnin'' rugby bizzo .Bash and biff ,rolling maul and drop goal-penalty thats the saffa way ! Meyer knows whats good for you and like all good conservative boer chaps will revert to the old tried and true ! 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2014, 05:46
#33
28 Nov 2014, 05:46#33
 Wardad
Ws it Whiskey, Brasndy, Vodka or Gin tha caused your pervious posing???????
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
28 Nov 2014, 08:33
#34
28 Nov 2014, 08:33#34
Wardad: you are right about that mate. Boks are losing their identity, a duck is a duck & a rabbit is a rabbit.
Picture provided for those who need it.

Boks are confusing themselves & their poor weee fans mumbled the fair-minded
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
28 Nov 2014, 10:44
#35
28 Nov 2014, 10:44#35
 Wabbit season!Duck season! Wabbit season ! Wabbit season ! And Mikey the wabbit shoots hisself in da feets again !And Mikey after liberal amounts of Highland mothers milk my posing is  now Im-Pervious  to criticism !
— END OF THREAD —

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