So at this point….what is our starting 15

It seems like ages since the Boks played, an impression reinforced by our NH teams missing many of our key Boks. So taking a reading feels timely. Here’s my 15, s is strong conviction

Willie…s

Arendse

Am

Esterhozen

Mapimpi

Pollard….s

Faf

Kitshoff

Marx….s

Malherbe

Etzebeth….s

Snyman

Mostert

Kwagga

Wiese

Only 4 players are strong conviction at this stage, but I feel comfortable with that team. Etzebeth, Snyman and Mostert should rule the air. The scrum should be fine and Wiese adds the hard yards carrying. 

The backs should be much less predictable with Esterhozen in for Dud. Mapimpi has actually looked pretty good of late and given how little we have seen of Kolbe, it’s hard to leave out a match winner like Arendse. Am is a bit of an unknown based on current form, but I’m guessing he finds his feet.

That's a pretty strong lineup Moz. 

I am glad Mozart will not be selecting the Springboks starting line-up.   The backline is not even close and playing  the defense and attack deficient player like Esterhuizen is an example - other examples amongst the forwards are Snyman - who has not played any top class rugby for more than 2 years - and Mostert as well as slow and rather useless no 8.       

The Mozart team will not make the play-offs - much like as what happened in 2011.          

The backline isn’t ‘even close’….but your one big change is Dud for Esterhozen. Odd.

The plan doesn't enhance anything. The plan was about concealing defensive frailties and poor technical ability by playing the percentages higher up the field. That and set pieces. Controlling the movement of the ball to control field position and minimise unpredictability of prayer independence. The game plan is not about individuals. I have never seen clever play from Damian and I've analysed tests frame by frame. A total myth. The shambolic play last year was the worst of the Rassie era, and that was trying to run aimlessly against all time bad opposition, and failing! So, now we have the worst defence of all top 10 sides (a statistical fact) and demonstrably the worst core attacking group in top 20 rugby, with little stopping power on the line, or ability to assert dominance through it on attack. Erasmus has taken us a long way down and the 6n sides look to have improved from what was a very lackluster test season last year overall. 

Kerevi 38 tests….8 tries

Henshaw 55 tests ….8 tries

Tuilagi 45 tests…..18 tries

Lienert-Brown 55 tests….12 tries

Jean de Villiers 105 tests….27 tries

………

Dud Allende 55 tests….7 tries

Clearly Dud is not a try scorer, he ranks lowest among these contemporaries. But he is even less productive as a try creator. He just doesn’t. I’m baffled by what he does that we wouldn’t get by simply running Kolisi or some other loosie. 

As for defence his blunder in the English test in 21 which cost the game says it all. Not a heavy hitter, more of a clinger….but his real weakness is mental, he doesn’t reliably read the play.

I don't get it Saffex. Many of your rugby thoughts are well formulaed but you have some kind of mental block with DDA.

Most everyone here is on the same page as far as he is concerned. For some reason, you keep defending the guy using a plethora of myths and unprovables. 

Take this statement for example...

"also attack space and create when the opportunity presents itself"

There was a video posted recently that showed every Bok try that has been scored since the last WC...DDA created hardly nay of them.  So how are you making these calls? It has to be myth because the video evidence says otherwise. When has he broken the line and put anyone in space? When has he called or made a play that resulted in a try for someone else and when can you remember him running off of someone's shoulder in a good supporting line? The guy never, and I mean NEVER, keeps up with play. 

He doesn't do any other that stuff. Despite being at 12, hardly any of the tries we've scored in the last 4 years have even seen the ball go through his hands. I can think of maybe 3...and in none of those did he do anything special.

All you are left with is to say that he carries up strongly and the retort is exactly the same...what is so special about that? We could literally pick any number of loose forwards to play at 12 for the Boks and they would do the one thing DDA does and do it better.

If Wiese is going to be the long-term 8 then Roos should just play at 12 because he does everything better than DDA...like miles better.

Here is that video again...

Howzit from the land of the rising sun. Ja, I'm not sure about Am. He has really gone of the boil but I hope it was just having Neill Powel as a coach and poor flyhalves. He looked lost at sea in the URC quarters.

I think the team pretty much selects themselves. 

I do believe this nonsense with Willemse and Fat Frans at 10 last year really messed up developing our back.

Manie right now is the the best 10 we have. Although, just saw Goosen got the golden boot for most successful conversation. 

We do need a reliable kicker given that we lost our close games last year due to poor kicking. We can't have that. 

Flyhalf is biggest concern, along with 6. kwagga is good, but not sure he is a starter. Maybe it will be Deon, but he is 36 and probably fall to pieces like Mr potato man come world cup time. 

Then, Jesper got my Vote for 8. 

I definitely want to see the front row of Kittshoff, Marx and Malherbe start. Ox is a great scrummer but can't play a full 80 min let alone 50. 

Kittshoff is mobile and great in both the loose and tight phases. 

Herbs is probably only 40 min player. 

BUT, Rassie have to keep the quotas up, so it will probably be the darkies starting even though I think that Bongi and Dweeb are poor and it should be Grobbelaar instead as our backup

It's more myth man. 

Show us! I have just posted a video of all our tries for the last 4 years...SHOW ME THE SPECIAL!

Can I show you the special for Marx, Am, Faf, Mapimpi, Kolbe, Mostert, Willie etc in this video...yep, I can. Their value is there to be counted, on the tape.

Apparently, you don't see value in Mostert? LOL you really should just watch the tape. A pressure player and the go-to guy when the stakes are high. Our most solid lineout option since Matfield but with a bigger tank and far higher work rate. Tell me, how many times do you count Mostert bringing the ball down and a try being the result... and you don't see the value in that?

You're joking, right?

All I'm asking is for you to show me the DDA evidence.

...but what I'm gathering from you is that you believe a modern 12 needs to be quieter on the scoring front and better at winning the fight in midfield. And the response is still that a) there are loosies that are better at it and b) this...

While you are talking about the modern game being so much tighter and Rassie favoring a "warrior" in midfield, here is what others are saying...

1. Steve Hansen (former New Zealand All Blacks coach): Hansen emphasized the importance of the inside center's playmaking ability and highlighted the need for them to have good passing and decision-making skills. He mentioned that the role of the number 12 had evolved to become more creative and influential in attack.

2. Brian O'Driscoll (former Ireland and British & Irish Lions player): O'Driscoll has discussed the evolving role of the number 12, noting that inside centers are now expected to be versatile players who can contribute both offensively and defensively. He mentioned that they need to be strong distributors and have the ability to break tackles and create scoring opportunities.

3. Warren Gatland (British & Irish Lions coach): Gatland has commented on the increased importance of the number 12's distribution skills and their involvement in playmaking. He has spoken about the need for inside centers to have a strong passing game and the ability to make good decisions under pressure.

Saffex, why can't you think for yourself? Why are you such a poor thought leader? A follower in other words. It's very simple, reference his positive contributions and point out something tangible. I've been doing this since 2014, and no one has ever been able to make even a poor case for him being even a passable or average player. No, Damian is the perfect demonstration of the media hype machine and the guppies biting instantly. It took quite a number of years for people to see the light. But they still get it wrong, as this is the best version of Damian! He was much, much worse on both attack and defence prior to 2016. His best statistical season is actually 2017, which was the year that eclipsed Erasmus' glorious 2018. It's how you spin it. That's another demonstration of how easy the guppies bite and fall for a good old lie. 

There are two ways to look at this Dave….space is limited so you tractor and make 3 metres. Or space is limited so you commit the defence and then you offload. Dud is the former….Esterhozen the latter.

This story about Esterhuizen has been ongoing for years.   I think Esterhuizen has proved that he  is a very average center on club level and just about makeable as a test center.    Mozart has admitted he never credit De Allende with anything when it comes to good play.    The same can be said about the other members who constantly attack him as a player.  

Thye problem I have is that Esterhuizen has limitations.   His defense is questionable and ball handling has been a problem on test level.    In 2018 Esterhuizen played in five tests and I compared his tackling in 5 tests that year.    De Allende made 42 tackles missing 5 in the tests he played in - Esterhuizen made 22 tackles missing 5 in the five tests he played in.   In the said tests Esterhuizen showed some problems with attack as well - when he carried balls in traffic he tends to lose possession through turnovers.   He rarely ever show  ball skills by off-loading.   In a recent game for his club - playing in SA - he messed up badly in the first 30 minutes.

The telling point is that last year Esterhuizen was in the Bok squad - but virtually never used.   I am saying that he has been assessed and found lacking.   However, we are fortunate that e have members with a better knowledge of rugby than the Springbok coaching set-up - so we can laugh at their contributions.                   

So in 2022 Dud Allende and Esterhozen both started in tests against Wales. In the second test Esterhozen made all 10 of his tackles. The Dud combining the first and 3rd tests made 4 tackles and missed 3.

I’m not saying Esterhozen is a great defender….but neither is Dud. So we won’t be missing much defensively if we finally decided that centres ought to offload.

Maybe we should add the 12 to the bomb squad, so when the front row changes we bring on a more adventurous centre.

Here we go, Saffex. 

Pace! Power! Smarts!

...and you'll never tell me any different...(posted this previously but in link form).

Mozart 

I will give you one example of why De Allende was a trump card in the WC Final in 2019 and what you missed totally as per normal and why Pollard said he was the best i.nside center heever played with:-

The3 Boks were leading by 15-9 when Pollard gathered a ball kicked and slipped while he  was trying to step past an English defender and he was penalized when holding on to the ball at the breakdown.    The goal kick was missed and a 22 meter kick-in was the result:-

*    Your number one hate Du Toit  followed up the kick-in and knocked the  ball back to Etzebeth who carried it for about 6 Meters.

*     Etzebeth passed the ball to your number 2 hate - De Alllende - who carried it a further 10 meters into the English half  and made sure at the breakdown  that the ball came back to Willie and he made a kick putting  the English fullback under pressure.   He kicked out the ball about  10 meters outside the English 22.

*      The line out ball was taken quickly by Snyman and passed by De Klerk to De Allende - wh o carried the ball to the  22 meters line and a ruck followed.   There were no forwards in the ruck and as per normal the case is with De4 Allende the ball came back to De Klerk who passed it to the forwards  who was forming a driving maul.

*   The only thing the English could do was to bring down the maul and give away a penalty virtually in front of the goal post.   Score 18-9.  

Now let's get back to the said test.   Du Toit and De Allende neutralized the England backline totally after they dominated the All Blacks totally - you missed that as well and falsely accused De Allende of not making a single tackle.   You also came up with Mostert being the defender who kept out the English when they constantly attacked  for about 5 minutes in that time.   The main defenders in that five minutes were Malherbe and Du Toit preventing carry-over tries.   

Du Toit was critically involved in both tries scored by the Springboks as well - you missed those as well.    De Allende actually scored the winning try against Wales when he beat three defenders through physical strength and not the one you alleged he beat.

How come you missed out on everything De Allende and Du Toit was involved in?   You happen to do that in every test the two players were involved in subsequently.   Real experts do not miss  out on issues - you did always when it comes to your pet hate players.   You also manufactured storis about what happened in tests and those are always BS and false descriptions.   So what you came up with is the standard Mozart distortions and lies. 

By the way De Allende scored 11 tries for the springboks - not 8 as alleged by you.   So where did you miss out on stats again or are you lying as per normal.    .     

 .   .       

Ah, so providing any video evidence of DDA's "brilliance" would require you to be a sad person?

Sounds like excuses to me...

Esterhuizen is not only a better defender than Damian, or a great defender, but the most impactful defensive 12 we've ever produced. The Fourie of 12s. You can't merely tally numbers as video evidence will clearly display that a successful Damian tackle statistically is not equal to that of Esterhuizen. There are things that don't get accounted for in stats, such as off the ball movement and defensive pressures. Such as if Esterhuizen rushes and forces a wide attack early. The stats will have the Bok out wide making the tackle, and many will see that superficially as this Bok being the key factor in shutting down the attack, but they won't see the internal pressure which stunted the attack. That's why I say, if you don't review film, you don't learn any thing useful. Those who study film will see numbers differently, and understand the context. Saffex, there is so much detail that you miss. It boggles the mind that someone who claims to have such a fundamentally sound understanding of the game be so off. Even more so that this is so consistent. 

From ESPN rugby stats guru:

Career

Span Mat Start Sub Pts Tries Conv Pens Drop Won Lost Draw %

All Tests 2014-2021 56 48 8 35 7 0 0 0 31 23 2 57.14

IRB Rugby World Cup 2015-2019 13 12 1 15 3 0 0 0 11 2 0 84.61

The Rugby Championship 2014-2021 24 18 6 10 2 0 0 0 9 13 2 41.66

ESPN lists 7 tries. Incredibly in 18 RC matches, he has managed 2 tries. Apologize for calling me a liar Clever.