So Clean Cut.....

going by your comments it's just a sob story and an excuse that the retirement of JK and GS(not to mention Mark Boucher)  has an effect on the team. Tell me my knowledgeable friend of a national cricket team that didn't suffer a setback and loss of their world ranking after the loss of their stalwarts?

 Response?

 
Denny ... clearly your having a go at me ... trying to teach me a lesson so to speak ... and even though I may have confessed that I have no real interest in the game ... I'm not stupid ... as your implying.

There is nothing complicated about our demise. It's logical.

It is usually an easy task to replace a player or two when they retire by bringing in a prospect that's been blooded in previous games.

A prospect with the potential to go far ... not some quota to appease the masses.

A smooth transition.

There should by rights be no real crisis in doing so ... if the proper preparation had been made as is usually the case in all team sport globally.

However ... when one suffers the loss of several key players at the same time one can expect a bit of a slump in performance ... but that's not the case here ... is it?

Smith called it a day ages ago and so did Kallis. That's two key players ... only two ... not 5 or 6 ... one of which contributed very little any way.

They haven't played for the country in ages.

It is only the team's recent form that's in question now.

We've always sucked against top tier teams but never as badly as we do now.

It has nothing to do with Smith nor Kallis. That's just a feeble excuse to distract us from the real issues which to my mind are :-

1. Selections - which include quotas and out of form players that should have been dropped.
 
2. Captaincy - selecting a chump who is a proven failure not only as a captain but as a tactician ... he's unable to come up with a battle plan that'll make us competitive.

Simple.

Now let me put this back in your court.

Pray tell, my learned friend, why we suck so badly at the sport of cricket? Why we've never challenged for the title in a final? Why we're known globally as chokers ... from generation to generation??

I eagerly await your response.

  

 Nope, I'm not having a go at you and neither do I think you're stupid, secondly I'm specifically talking test cricket while you're talking both test and ODI cricket. Two completely different games. As far as test cricket is concerned I think your opinions are treading water and as for the other version, well it's fair to say that the Proteas are chokers. I believe that you fail to understand the difficulties newbie test players face even though they're the best at domestic level. No amount of preparation guarantees instant success until the player walks out into the middle of a test arena. I can quote you many examples.

Denny, i thought it was obvious that unless you hit back to back double hundreds in your first test, you clearly are not good enough. The problem is that people will be very negative about players very quickly. Some people can't get through they day without mentioning how bad someone else is. For my money, our test squad is is very healthy. There are some internal issues which need sorting but when you compare the young guys we can choose from now to that of years gone by, well the difference is stark. Compare our good players to the good players of the past and the difference is also massive, even when taking into account how averages have in general gone up. CC fails to understand that a guy like Smith and what he built, can't be replaced over night. It takes a year or two. We have players struggling to be regulars that would be regulars in the other tops teams. But yeah, let's send one of our best batters ever IE Amla back to domestic cricket. Man it's a joke. Clearly someone else will be able to take his place and find his feet much more quickly then what it'll take Amla to get some form back. It makes me laugh. Oh, think I mentioned in a previous post, but i heard.on the radio that Amla.averaged 45 as skipper. Mmm :/

Can't agree Plum. I'm not seeing any of this talent you're talking about and the very idea of plodders or non-performers like Faf du Plessis, Stiaan van Zyl, Quinton de Kock, JP Duminy and Kyle Abbott competing for places in some of the great Springbok sides of the past is nothing short of laughable.

Seriously, would even one of those players be good enough to replace anyone in the great Springbok team of 1970? Which of this crop would replace the likes of Barry Richards, Eddie Barlow, Graeme Pollock or Peter Pollock? Which of Hansie Cronje's team of the late 90s would you drop for one of this sad lot? Gary Kirsten? Jacques Kallis? Darryl Cullinan? Hansie Cronje? Brian McMillan? Shaun Pollock? Lance Klusener? Allan Donald? Now those were teams!

Heck, other than our three current world class players (AB, Hash and Steyn) which of the current mediocre crop could even dream of replacing anyone in Clive Rice's great Transvaal side of the 1970s? Huh? These current okes wouldn't even have been 12th man for some of the provincial sides back in the 70s and early 80s.

No, our current crop of test players are as poor as anything in living memory. I honestly cannot think of a worse Springbok/Protea test side than this bunch of very ordinary plodders. Feel free to remind me of some of the teams of the past that the likes of Stiaan van Zyl, Quinton de Kock and Kyle Abbott would crack.

 "Oh, think I mentioned in a previous post, but i heard.on the radio that Amla.averaged 45 as skipper. Mmm :/"
Sometimes one can take statistics at face value but in some cases you have to look at the influence of outliers. When your sample is very large, the influence of outliers becomes less of an issue. When you are dealing with a small sample, outliers can play a massive role. 
Clinically, Amla averages 52.13 in tests and 49.66 in tests as captain. He has played in 90 tests (large sample) but he has only captained the side fourteen times (small sample). 
A blind man can feel with a broom handle that Amla's batting as a captain has been crap, despite his official average of 49.66. His batting averages as a captain is boosted by two things, i.e. (1) one century and two double centuries as well as (2) the fact that he was not out on two occasions. In addition to that, one of those not out occasions was when he made his one century against Sri Lanka in Jul 2014. If you do look at his 14 tests as captain more closely, then the influence of the century, the two double centuries as well as the not outs become more significant. In those 14 tests, where one would normally expect him to have batted at least 28 times, he only actually batted 20 times, making the sample even smaller and the effect of the outliers even bigger.
To put things in even better perspective, he has scored less than 30 in twelve of his 20 innings as a test captain. Out of his 20 innings as a test test captain, he has only scored the following good innings including the century and the two double centuries: 139* v SL in SL in 2014208 v WI at Centurion in 201433 v WI in PE in 201463 v WI at Newlands in 201438* v WI at Newlands in 201343 v India at Mohali in Nov 201539 v India at Nagpur in Nov 2015201 v England at Newlands in 2016
That is eight decent scores in 20 innings as a captain. That means that he has failed, as a batsman in 60% of his captain's innings. That is,  of course, if you deem a score of thirty as a decent score for a test opening batsman. If not...... well, then the situation becomes much worse.
Fact is that Amla, himself, he's come to realise that his batting was pretty crap when he was captaining the side and has wisely decided to focus on what he knew his real strength is, i.e. his batting without the burden of the captaincy.
My guess is that he has made the correct decision for his own sake as well as for the sake of the Proteas. Win-win.

Hiya Rooi Faf has always been average in my book. He strikes me as a bit of a show pony. I also feel that were it not for his association with AB he'd probably not have got into the Protea setup. De Cock, i think he is quality. We forget how young he still is. I don't think Boucher was nearly as talented as Quint. Granted he needs to mature a little. I also feel that both Morris ans Abbot are not to bad either. I guess I am biased against Morkel because I regard him as wayward and inconsistent. But i would rather have either of them...or even Marchant, than Morne. For me, the only.greats, excluding the current team, as far as bowling is concerned were Donald, Pollock and Fanie Devilliers. Duminy, aside from the shorter format has always been a passenger...maybe quota related? I'm with you on the Rossouw front. He should be there. In place of Faf maybe. Stian is good enough, but he has been unfortunate to start in a team that lacks confidence. Also dude, remember how very crap Kallis was when he started his average was nowhere near what De C0ck's after having played the same amount of games? Actually aside from AB, we've never had keeper as capable with the bat as De C0ck is. I just think we need to give him a very long run and keep faith. When talking about teams of the past, since am only 35, i was referring to teams since re-admission. Until Smith, we could not for love nor money beat England or Oz. Post Smith we expect to dominate them. Of the list of great players you mentioned...only Kallis ans Pollock were part of teams that won series in England and in Oz. So how great were those teams? I guess it will always remain a matter of perspective. @Cera. If Amla himself thouht he wasn't right for the captaincy, then one can't argue with that. And maybe it did affect his batting and he knew that. I think he is a humble guy and he wouldn't let his ego get in the way of making the right decision. So all credit to him. Still, averages are averages. Everyone has "not outs" and big scores that help averages climb. 45 is pretty high though, but even if you drop it by 5, or 10 at a push, it's still not as horrible as people are claiming. I defs don't think he needed to go back to club cricket. But yes, I agree, his batting did decline while he was captain. It'll be interesting to see how he does now that the pressure is off. Looking forward to tomorrow. I hope we bat first.

"@Cera. If Amla himself thouht he wasn't right for the captaincy, then one can't argue with that. And maybe it did affect his batting and he knew that. " 
Quite correct but that was not the argument that was raised on another thread. On that thread it was implied that the captaincy of the Dolphins influenced his batting at the Dolphins and that he was supposedly dropped because of that. That was way off the mark. He got his initial spot into the national side on the back of his batting performances at the Dolphins. When he was then dropped from the national side and upon his return to the Dolphins, the first thing that he did was to relinquish the captaincy in order to fix his batting. The captaincy of the Dolphins therefore never had any influence on his batting for the Doplhins. 

 "For my money, our test squad is is very healthy."
Disagree... and I'd have to say that it's one of our worst test sides since re-admission.For starters the Proteas don't have an opening pair of note.......Elgar is still trying to establish himself while Stiaan at the other end is a converted middle order batsman who iis clearly out of his depth as an opener. Pity the first drop who has to frontup as an opener after the now customary early exit. The team also lacks a quality allrounder. QDK iis struggling at test level and as a matter of fact thus far he's been a failure. JP Duminy cannot be relied upon and I tend to think he's there for the free ride. BTW the current allrounder Morris is on the wrong side of 28 which is neither here nor there except to say that there is no young gun knocking down the door. I can't help believe that 20/20 cricket has added to the demise of quality test batsmen.....cricketers follow the money trail and 20/20 is where it's at......something had to give.

 Much like our rugby situation there is simply a dearth of real talent. We have plenty of provincial players who are hyped and then flop. For some reason in both rugby and cricket the talent pipeline seems to have contracted after 2005....there are exceptions but not many. So now it's quite possible only AB would make the Aussie cricket team....and no Bok would make the AB starting team.
The interesting question is whether this is an aberration, or the new reality.

 "The interesting question is whether this is an aberration, or the new reality."
Hard to say Moz and I wish I have an answer but I hope it's the former. We might have a better idea after the current series and again when we front the Kiwis.

 
Denny ... Graeme Smith retired from test cricket when?? March 2014? Do I have that about right?

That's near on 2 years ago.

Please explain to me how it's possible that his absence is still being felt by our current side? While your at it, please include why it is that we were unable to find a replacement opening bat in all that time?

I'm talking test cricket here, Denny!!

Jacques Kallis retired from cricket when? July 2014? Do I have that right?

I repeat the question. It's near on 2 years later and still we're looking back in history to find excuses for our current dismal display.

Oh and by the way ... I'm talking test cricket here, Denny. 

I stand by what I said. Our selection policies are racist based.

We're keeping out of form players on when by rights they should have been dropped ages ago.

No-one was properly blooded in preparation of possible retirements. No back up players of any sort.    

You do not have the right to play for the country unless your able to contribute properly. Amla has been sub standard ... with bat and as captain and so have many others.

Sphincter Boy is wet behind the ears. I'm starting to wonder if he knows anything about the sport at all. It seems as if he knows even less than I do ... yet he has much to say ... the usual ignorant nonsense.

The potential faggot wants to hold on to the muslim who's produced nothing but sub standard performances, as Ceradyne so nicely pointed out.

Why?

Is it the colour of his skin or does him bowing down to the moon god qualify him for selection?

For how long should he keep coming on to the pitch as an opening bat only to leave 10 minutes later with his 12 runs??

I'm in complete agreement with Redneck. Those boys were top of the line cricket players who we had faith in. We went to war with them every time they played. It was nail biting edge of your seat stuff back then.

This current bunch is more likely to be pelted with rotten fruit than be cheered for.

I'm afraid it's all gone horribly wrong and I can't see it improving any day soon.

The 3rd test match starts today and I'm looking forward to it.

Let us see if the latest cricket god can chalk up another ton.

I'm hoping they'll be playing on a pitch that has a little in it for the bowler.

Go England!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

" Let us see if the latest cricket god can chalk up another ton." Who would he be?.....Stiaan Van Zyl?

 
Come now, Denny ... you know of whom I speak.

Temba Bavuma!!

This quota pick comes aboard, chalks up a century, on a dead pitch, and is being haled as the best thing to have ever donned a pair of cricket pads.

I need a little more than that before I start worshiping him.

Van Zyl?? Who's that? Oh you mean the chump that should have been placed further down the order or dropped altogether?

Well ... hasn't he been a disappointment so far? Another non contributor who seems to own his spot in the team no matter what.





 

 

It's overcast in JHB this morning. Haven't checked the weather but i think if SA bat first they could be in for a some swing from Anderson. CC, I'm just gonna rise above your lies and moronic insults. You don't deserve my time. So, on that Amla captain, do we expect him to do well with the bat again immediately? How is AB gonna go tactics wise? I hope he proves me wrong, I really do. If the sun comes out I think the Proteas will dominate England on this pitch. Also I have a feeling some of the newbies will do better in this test...specifically Stiaan and Morris. Also, let's see how Morkel's first spell goes. The Wanderers can be nice and bouncy so hopefully he gets it right in this game.

 Our broadcast starts at 7.30pm...perfect. Time to kickback with a tall cocktail and some prawns.

De Kock managed to sprain his knee last night at home. Vilas will take his place, and that means De Villiers will have to be keeper! Not the greatest start to the test! 

 
Poepol Naaier ... we would most definitely expect an immediate contribution from the muslim ... especially now that he's been willingly discarded as Kapitan.

Why do you sound so trepid? Not very confident in your bearded boy are you?

I hope they bowl him out for a duck!!

How's your girlfriend?

 Why doesn't Vilas keep?

Correction. No Jimmy Anderson. Kinda sad, I was looking forward to seeing him bowl. On a funny side not. Jimmy Anderson shagged a cricketing friend of mind's girlfriend. Was funny as hell when he told us about it. He chose the wrong moment as we were watching Jimmy take wickets against Oz at the time. I think he regretted telling us about it more than the fact itself. What's all the chat about Vilas this morning? Is he injured or what? AB just won the toss and we are gonna bat. We'll certainly lose a couple of early ones in this weather. Viljoen in for Piedt. Good choice!!!

 Here you go Clean Cut...the article serves to substantiate my statement about 20/20 being the main reason as to why there's a dearth of quality test batsmen....
                                Cook, AB lead calls for ICC to protect tests

Test cricket must adapt to survive in the face of the ever-tightening squeeze from shorter, more lucrative, forms of the game, both England and South Africa's captains said on Wednesday.

Calling for more structure in the cluttered cricket schedule, Alastair Cook and AB de Villiers agreed there is a growing tug on player commitments between the traditional format and Twenty20 competitions like the Indian Premier League (IPL) and Australia's Big Bash.

"I think it's a growing concern for the ICC (International Cricket Council) and they've been talking about it for the last few years," De Villiers, whose own workload between test cricket and his earning potential in the T20 format has been widely debated in recent weeks, said.

He reportedly earns $1.4m playing in the IPL for Royal Challengers Bangalore – dwarfing his South Africa contract.

In a separate news conference on Wednesday ahead of the third test between the two countries at the Wanderers in Johannesburg, Cook said that while the five-day game still represented the ultimate test for a player, it could not risk standing still.

"Everyone loves test cricket, I believe," Cook said.

"We all know we have to protect test cricket. As the game progresses and evolves, you can't stand still.

"We have to always look to how we can improve the game. The people who run it must know there is a responsibility on their shoulders to look after it and try and push it forward."

DAY-NIGHT TESTS

The recent introduction of day-night tests in Australia is seen as a positive step, but De Villiers said the the Future Tours Programme, which determines bilateral cricket fixtures for the next six years, needed to be examined.

"I believe there are areas to improve and help keep the players focused in on the test game, he said.

"Obviously there are one or two (T20) tournaments going on around the world and financially you cannot ignore them because they do make a huge difference to our lives.

"You've got to look after that side as well but test cricket comes first. One or two things will have to change for the future."

On Monday, England's most successful bowler James Anderson said he would not be seeking to play in the IPL in order to rest for England's home test commitments against Sri Lanka and Pakistan from May to August.

"I'm at this stage of my career, I want to make sure I'm in good nick to play test match cricket for England. A couple of months' rest won't be a bad thing. My heart is with playing test cricket for England," he told reporters.

Elgar's scores in this series...100*(think it was 110*), 40, 44. So his average for this series is around 90. Why are we complaining about him?