Could the oaks who think Duane is done please assess his performance against the Rebels. T ime for a good laugh!
Captain40,032 posts
17 May 2019, 13:39
#1
17 May 2019, 13:39#1
So is Duane done
Started by Beeno125 REPLIES838 VIEWS· 17 May 2019, 13:39
Captain40,032 posts
17 May 2019, 14:49
#2
17 May 2019, 14:49#2
A delicious silence.
Captain21,007 posts
17 May 2019, 15:40
#3
17 May 2019, 15:40#3
How'd he do?
I wanted to watch the game but oh yeah, I'm not retired just yet ??
Coach57,555 posts
17 May 2019, 17:36
#4
17 May 2019, 17:36#4
Beeno
The answer is simple - he was not up to standard, There are a number of reasons why I did not like what I saw - two of those being -
* a knock-on of a ball when he was covering a kick-in by the Rebels from their own 22; and
* 2 crucial penalties he gave away,
In defense he looked better this match than he did before and he had two good ball carries, I gained the impression that he realized some hard graft is needed after a string of unsatisfactory performances, Will that ne sustained next round - we will have to see what happens,
I an still puzzled b a story in this site hat he asked Meyer to put pressure on the Bulls not to take him on tour, Is such a request was indeed made it is very likely that Erasmus told him to start performing properly or he would not make the WC squad, That may be te reason for his improved performances today after a string of substandard performances over the past month,
Captain40,032 posts
17 May 2019, 18:07
#5
17 May 2019, 18:07#5
Ou maaaikie spinning like a top.
Coach57,555 posts
17 May 2019, 18:36
#6
17 May 2019, 18:36#6
No - I ma one of the few people on site who are really objective.
Coach57,555 posts
17 May 2019, 18:37
#7
17 May 2019, 18:37#7
No - I ma one of the few people on site who are really objective.
Captain40,032 posts
17 May 2019, 20:41
#8
17 May 2019, 20:41#8
Ou maAaAikie ya do ya best but a top is a top!
sharkbok
Captain23,240 posts
Captain23,240 posts
17 May 2019, 21:50
#9
17 May 2019, 21:50#9
Vermeulen was ranked as the best number 8 in the game. He may be past his best, but it is still much better than the Diesel twins who are limited to being ball carriers.
Captain18,117 posts
17 May 2019, 22:27
#10
17 May 2019, 22:27#10
If one of the "Diesel" twins had committed any of the multiple handling errors Duane Vermeulen committed today, you lot would be shrieking and screaming about it for years to come.
Jean-Luc du Preez has ruined a few try-scoring opportunities for both the Sharks and the Springboks because of butterfingers or poor hands. The thrust, energy and continuity he brings to the field far outweighs any knock-ons or fumbles he has been guilty of but I'll concede Jean-Luc could conceivably be accused of having poor hands.
Dan du Preez has brought the same thrust and energy to the Sharks and Springboks and has done it without the knock-ons and fumbles that Jean-Luc is associated with but is seen as having made the same errors simply because he's a twin. He is also blamed for two losses to the Welsh when his contributions in those tests were largely positive.
I am a twin (non-identical) and I can attest to the fact that twins are often seen to be a unit rather than individuals when in fact they could be (like me and my twin) two halves of a whole.
Dan is blamed when Jean-Luc knocks on and has earned the reputation for having poor hands when the complete opposite is true. He actually has amazingly good handling skills for a big man . . . much like Jean-Luc who has made many more blunders but still does stuff on a rugby field that makes people sit up and take notice.
Before I give the impression that I'm supporting Dan at the expense of Jean-Luc, let me make the point that Jean-Luc is the more talented of the two. He makes more errors but he also creates more gainline advantage than his twin. He is closer to the SA #6 while Dan is the less noticed but more reliable #7 or #8.
Both are supreme physical specimens with phenomenal handling, pace and ball-skill talents that other men of their size and power could only dream of. I personally wouldn't consider a Springbok team without both of these incredible rugby talents and every game we select a team that includes neither of these two is a complete waste of time and effort in my never humble opinion. I'd pick them both in a heartbeat for any Springbok team . . . in conjunction with a genuine ball-following fetcher like Kwagga Smith, Jaco Kriel or (potentially) Siya Kolisi.
Anyone dissing these two fantastic rugby players . . . with their own distinct strengths and weaknesses . . . is someone who doesn't understand the game, someone who can't distinguish two human beings because they are twins or someone who is biased and/or prejudiced.
Jean-Luc is the text book #7 with one or two questions over his ball handling while Dan can still evolve into the text book #8 with no discernible weaknesses and only positive attributes that could make him a true legend of the game.
I realise mine is a minority opinion (on this board anyway . . . most kenners around a braai would agree with everything I'm saying) but I'm not afraid to nail my colours to their mast. I say pick them while they're young and hungry and see what these phenomenal physical brutes can deliver.
PS Robert the flyhalf is the image you wo uld expect to receive if you went to Google images and typed in "flyhalf average" while Robert the coach is the same image you'd get of you typed in "coach crap".
Jean-Luc du Preez has ruined a few try-scoring opportunities for both the Sharks and the Springboks because of butterfingers or poor hands. The thrust, energy and continuity he brings to the field far outweighs any knock-ons or fumbles he has been guilty of but I'll concede Jean-Luc could conceivably be accused of having poor hands.
Dan du Preez has brought the same thrust and energy to the Sharks and Springboks and has done it without the knock-ons and fumbles that Jean-Luc is associated with but is seen as having made the same errors simply because he's a twin. He is also blamed for two losses to the Welsh when his contributions in those tests were largely positive.
I am a twin (non-identical) and I can attest to the fact that twins are often seen to be a unit rather than individuals when in fact they could be (like me and my twin) two halves of a whole.
Dan is blamed when Jean-Luc knocks on and has earned the reputation for having poor hands when the complete opposite is true. He actually has amazingly good handling skills for a big man . . . much like Jean-Luc who has made many more blunders but still does stuff on a rugby field that makes people sit up and take notice.
Before I give the impression that I'm supporting Dan at the expense of Jean-Luc, let me make the point that Jean-Luc is the more talented of the two. He makes more errors but he also creates more gainline advantage than his twin. He is closer to the SA #6 while Dan is the less noticed but more reliable #7 or #8.
Both are supreme physical specimens with phenomenal handling, pace and ball-skill talents that other men of their size and power could only dream of. I personally wouldn't consider a Springbok team without both of these incredible rugby talents and every game we select a team that includes neither of these two is a complete waste of time and effort in my never humble opinion. I'd pick them both in a heartbeat for any Springbok team . . . in conjunction with a genuine ball-following fetcher like Kwagga Smith, Jaco Kriel or (potentially) Siya Kolisi.
Anyone dissing these two fantastic rugby players . . . with their own distinct strengths and weaknesses . . . is someone who doesn't understand the game, someone who can't distinguish two human beings because they are twins or someone who is biased and/or prejudiced.
Jean-Luc is the text book #7 with one or two questions over his ball handling while Dan can still evolve into the text book #8 with no discernible weaknesses and only positive attributes that could make him a true legend of the game.
I realise mine is a minority opinion (on this board anyway . . . most kenners around a braai would agree with everything I'm saying) but I'm not afraid to nail my colours to their mast. I say pick them while they're young and hungry and see what these phenomenal physical brutes can deliver.
PS Robert the flyhalf is the image you wo uld expect to receive if you went to Google images and typed in "flyhalf average" while Robert the coach is the same image you'd get of you typed in "coach crap".
Captain49,914 posts
17 May 2019, 22:29
#11
17 May 2019, 22:29#11
Vermeulen is the glue holding the Bools together....the last lineout to the Rebs is a perfect summary....Snyman gets up to knock the ball away. Vermeulen seizes it.
If Mike had any teeth left I'd say he was lying through his teeth.
Captain18,117 posts
17 May 2019, 22:38
#12
17 May 2019, 22:38#12
Duane Vermeulen has played some truly great test matches . . . the second test aganst the Poms in 2018 being the best example . . . but he lacks the stamina or the consistency and he's had more anonymous tests than memorable ones.
His experience, guts and general hardness make him an ideal bench option for the Boks (assuming he's in the right mental space) but he's not better than Dan du Preez at this stage of his career.
His experience, guts and general hardness make him an ideal bench option for the Boks (assuming he's in the right mental space) but he's not better than Dan du Preez at this stage of his career.
Captain49,914 posts
17 May 2019, 22:38
#13
17 May 2019, 22:38#13
All those handling errors by Vermeulen:
D VermeulenN8 1 13 0 0
There they are....exactly one. Missed tackles there they are....zero.
And these are his offensive stats:
D VermeulenN8 0 3 9 37 1 2 1 0
4 metres a run....3 passes and an offload...2 defenders beaten. And I noted at least one lineout turnover notincluding the last one he secured against the throw, because Snyman did the main business.
Throw in his obvious leadership and you have a complete performance, well beyond the capabilities of anyother SA number 8.
sharkbok
Captain23,240 posts
Captain23,240 posts
17 May 2019, 23:14
#14
17 May 2019, 23:14#14
An allround loose forward is worth his weight in gold. Why? because they are able to vary their game plan based on the situation.That is why Vermeulen is able to make such a contribution to his game.
If the opposition team is dominating the rucks, the Diesel Twins are stuffed.
A strong ball carrier looks good when his team is dominating possession at the ruck.If someone spends the whole day in the gym and takes an excessive amount of creatine they are going to be strong. However, at the international level, this is negated
When South African teams look their worst is when the opposition team are winning the rucks. (Slow ball retention on the SA attack, and no pressure on opposition ball). SA ball carriers hanging off rucks, or too slow to get to the ruck to make any influence.
If a back row had 3 Vermuelen's it would be unbeatable. He is a strong ball carrier, but he is also a fetcher, and cover defender with the positional play on defence and attack.
One fetcher in the back row is not enough. Ideally, all three, or at least 2 are good at competing at the ruck
If the opposition team is dominating the rucks, the Diesel Twins are stuffed.
A strong ball carrier looks good when his team is dominating possession at the ruck.If someone spends the whole day in the gym and takes an excessive amount of creatine they are going to be strong. However, at the international level, this is negated
When South African teams look their worst is when the opposition team are winning the rucks. (Slow ball retention on the SA attack, and no pressure on opposition ball). SA ball carriers hanging off rucks, or too slow to get to the ruck to make any influence.
If a back row had 3 Vermuelen's it would be unbeatable. He is a strong ball carrier, but he is also a fetcher, and cover defender with the positional play on defence and attack.
One fetcher in the back row is not enough. Ideally, all three, or at least 2 are good at competing at the ruck
Captain49,914 posts
18 May 2019, 00:05
#15
18 May 2019, 00:05#15
Nice analysis Shark...I agree.
Coach57,555 posts
18 May 2019, 07:11
#16
18 May 2019, 07:11#16
Mozart
Stop talking tripe, There was a ;ine=out at circa minute 18 where Snyman fouled up badly and a Bulls line-out was won by the Rebels.
For the rest there were a number of line-outs where the Bulls tried to form a driving maul and the end result was possession turnover through an opposition scrum being awarded. Fact is that with rare exceptions the driving maul attempts were fatally flawed - while the Rebels driving mauls were much better. The line-out performances of the Bulls were so-so..
I never said anything about Vermeulen's defense and clearly said that he made more tackles than normal with him - so what you write is total garbage as per normal.
What you keep totally quiet about was the reference to the penalties Vermeulen gave away and that serious ball knock-on I referred to specifically - obviously that must be kept quiet about since it would ruin your praise song.
When last have you been objective om anything?
Coach57,555 posts
18 May 2019, 07:11
#17
18 May 2019, 07:11#17
Mozart
Stop talking tripe, There was a ;ine=out at circa minute 18 where Snyman fouled up badly and a Bulls line-out was won by the Rebels.
For the rest there were a number of line-outs where the Bulls tried to form driving mauls and the end result was possession turnover through an opposition scrum being awarded. Fact is that with rare exceptions the driving maul attempts were fatally flawed - while the Rebels driving mauls were much better. The line-out performances of the Bulls were so-so..
I never said anything about Vermeulen's defense and clearly said that he made more tackles than normal with him - so what you write is total garbage as per normal.
What you keep totally quiet about was the reference to the penalties Vermeulen gave away and that serious ball knock-on I referred to specifically - obviously that must be kept quiet about since it would ruin your praise song.
When last have you been objective on anything?
Pro9,905 posts
18 May 2019, 07:44
#18
18 May 2019, 07:44#18
Vermeulen knows that he only has two matches to produce the goods in ... of course he's going to give it his best shot. How else is he to impress the ignorant masses? Right, Mozart?
There's one match left to go now ... against the Brumbies, who have lost 50% of their matches this season, so by no means a challenging one ... then he can lounge around the house on a two week break, topping up an empty stamina tank, while pretending that he's our go to guy at 8 ... well at least every other weekend.
What would have happened if they insisted he play the entire tour ... all four matches?
His SOS call to Rassie must really have sounded desperate ... "Please Coach, get me out of here ... ek kan nie meer nie"
He's been ducking the Kiwis since last year ... and it seems he intends to continue cowering in the corner.
In the mean time, Dan Du Preez keeps rolling on ... match after match, producing the goods consistently ... showing us all that he is the only logical choice at 8 ... and by some way. Someone we can depend on ... all the time.
I think that Vermeulen would make an excellent impact player off the bench. That way he can give it his all ... in high intensity spurts ... and before he knows it, he's back in the locker room having a shower.
That is an excellent suggestion.
Surely that would enable him to take part in every match?
Pro2,680 posts
18 May 2019, 12:40
#19
18 May 2019, 12:40#19
I don't believe Vermeulen is done and believe there is enough juice in him to carry us forward to the end of the RWC. I do agree with some of the points Shark made.
Also I don't discard the points that Mike made but we have a tendency here too often to be one-sided and try and beat each other in debate and argument and as a result throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I think if you add all the pluses and the negatives about Duane up you will find the pluses out number the negatives substantially and he definitely is a strong option. No I don't believe he is spent.
Captain26,388 posts
18 May 2019, 12:53
#20
18 May 2019, 12:53#20
Vermeulen is a rare commodity for the Boks and should be used sparingly. Played just enough to keep him match fit for when he would really be needed. I don't believe in resting players for a whole match. Give him at least 20 from the bench instead of resting.
Captain49,914 posts
18 May 2019, 14:44
#21
18 May 2019, 14:44#21
Effort players like the Deysel twins fade when everybody else produces maximum effort.....like a WC knockout. That's when truly skilled players like Vermeulen show their quality....as in producing the offload of the tournament to beat Wales and get the Boks in the semis.
Coach57,555 posts
18 May 2019, 18:30
#22
18 May 2019, 18:30#22
Was that off-load of the tournament four years ago - that is another load of BS, Anyway that four years made a huge difference and the fact is Vermeulen is not the player he used to be before his neck injury in 2015. I thought that the idea that present assessment of players based on what happened years ago went out of the window with Heyneke? It always has been the epitome of stupidity,
Captain26,388 posts
18 May 2019, 19:41
#23
18 May 2019, 19:41#23
Maaik, Thor is still the best we have, but only for 40m. We need another 8 to back him up. Warren is good, but too injury prone...I vote for Coetzee...Deysel Twins are too predictable for my liking...great athletes, but something missing.
Pro2,471 posts
19 May 2019, 10:47
#24
19 May 2019, 10:47#24
There's no time to try and cement a new 8 for the RWC, maybe to give someone else a taste in the shortened RC and manage Thor appropriately leading up to Japan.
Coach57,555 posts
19 May 2019, 11:09
#25
19 May 2019, 11:09#25
I frankly do not have the answer about the issue of the no 8, but thin that Vermeulen should be in the WC squad - where he could be an impact player from the bench in some games. He should be used very sparingly in whatever games he played in
Captain26,388 posts
19 May 2019, 11:36
#26
19 May 2019, 11:36#26
Correct Maaik, we should get optimum returns on that investment. He should be able to give everything when it counts...NZ and Ireland...rest him ass soon as it's safe....but we don't really have a long term solution . I like the Twins, but like I said, something missing.
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