How is the hugely popular Whi te dismissal working out for you guppie fans?
Captain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2015, 00:30
#1
08 Mar 2015, 00:30#1
SOS for Jake White
Started by Mozart11 REPLIES247 VIEWS· 08 Mar 2015, 00:30
Club Pro900 posts
08 Mar 2015, 01:24
#2
08 Mar 2015, 01:24#2
I don't think it was a bad decision to sack Jake, in fact I was rather pleased. The bad decision was to hire, who we did.
sharkbok
Captain23,285 posts
Captain23,285 posts
08 Mar 2015, 02:06
#3
08 Mar 2015, 02:06#3
Agreed Agpleeeze
Sacking him would be fine if the replacement was a better coach than Gary Gold.
The Sharks need a coach that understands back-line play. Their was talk about John Mitchell taking over, but that fell through.
Jake White got the boot for a few reasons.
1. He overplayed Springboks so they became out of form at the business-end of the tournament.2. He played a boring brand of rugby for most of the season. To much kick and chase. Fans were not enjoying it.
Jake White himself needed a backline coach like when he was at the Brumbies with Larkham and Fisher. He is a good coach but he messed up as a team manager by overplaying the Boks in the team last year.
Many of the games at the start of the season the Sharks had big leads early on, an they could have taken off the Boks to pace them.
Sacking him would be fine if the replacement was a better coach than Gary Gold.
The Sharks need a coach that understands back-line play. Their was talk about John Mitchell taking over, but that fell through.
Jake White got the boot for a few reasons.
1. He overplayed Springboks so they became out of form at the business-end of the tournament.2. He played a boring brand of rugby for most of the season. To much kick and chase. Fans were not enjoying it.
Jake White himself needed a backline coach like when he was at the Brumbies with Larkham and Fisher. He is a good coach but he messed up as a team manager by overplaying the Boks in the team last year.
Many of the games at the start of the season the Sharks had big leads early on, an they could have taken off the Boks to pace them.
Captain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2015, 02:14
#4
08 Mar 2015, 02:14#4
Actually Jakes got a not so good Sharks team to the semi.....the view has always been the Sharks are loaded with special talent. It would seem to be a bit optimistic. The Brumbies played great rugby under Jake ....the chicken or a Sharks egg?
Coach57,555 posts
08 Mar 2015, 10:10
#5
08 Mar 2015, 10:10#5
The Sharks did not play great rugby while Jake was in charge. They by accident managed to get to the semi-final and then got disgraced. Reason they had a cronic inability to score tries - ad it is tries that win matches.
The type of rugby played by the Sharks last year can succeed up to a point - but then it collapses in a heap.
The problem last year with the Sharks were the chronically poor backline performance of the Sharks and the main catalyst for that was Francois Steyn. He was back with the Sharks yesterday and he was even worse than he was last year. He was so poor yesterday that there is only one way that can happen - and that is to improve in performance. It was shocking what De Allende was able to do to him yesterday and a repeat performance in future matches will be disastrous for the Sharks.
What would Jake have done with that team of the Sharks that Gold did not do? Remember Jannie du Plessis was not available yesterday - but that would not have helped since Jannie was poor when scrumming against the unknown Mienie of the Cheetahs.
What would Jake White have done differently yesterday and thus far in Super 15 ?
The type of rugby played by the Sharks last year can succeed up to a point - but then it collapses in a heap.
The problem last year with the Sharks were the chronically poor backline performance of the Sharks and the main catalyst for that was Francois Steyn. He was back with the Sharks yesterday and he was even worse than he was last year. He was so poor yesterday that there is only one way that can happen - and that is to improve in performance. It was shocking what De Allende was able to do to him yesterday and a repeat performance in future matches will be disastrous for the Sharks.
What would Jake have done with that team of the Sharks that Gold did not do? Remember Jannie du Plessis was not available yesterday - but that would not have helped since Jannie was poor when scrumming against the unknown Mienie of the Cheetahs.
What would Jake White have done differently yesterday and thus far in Super 15 ?
Captain30,741 posts
08 Mar 2015, 21:20
#6
08 Mar 2015, 21:20#6
Hugely popular with who? The guy had an average test record and is anything but popular. There is a reason he got fired and is now coaching a bunch of nobodies.
Can't say I rate Gold though never have.
Can't say I rate Gold though never have.
Captain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2015, 03:22
#7
09 Mar 2015, 03:22#7
Winning the WC is an average test record.....this is the old South African disease. It's better to be collegial than a winner....the Proteas are the same story. Jake has 10 times the rugby IQ of John smit and his coaches.
Coach57,555 posts
09 Mar 2015, 03:48
#8
09 Mar 2015, 03:48#8
Mozart
There were serious limitations to Jake White's rugby acumen. In the 2007 WC he was going nowhere - since he was always clueless about backline play, so he brought Eddie Jones in to assist him in that respect.
In the case of the Brumbies he used Larkham as his backline coach. Larkham is now the Brumbies coach and the team is doing no worse than what it did under Jake White.
In the case of the Sharks - he never had a quality backline coach that could take a strong stand - and he cottoned onto Francois Steyn, while kicking and kicking and kicking became the norm. The Sharks backline was the worst performing attacking backline in Super 15 last year - purely because the style of play imposed did not allow for scoring of tries - aimless and highly ineffective kicking by especially Francois Steyn became the norm. It drove the Sharks spectators away from Kings Park in droves. If Steyn had any rugby acumen he would know when to kick and when to pass - he does not know that.
If White has the acumen you say he has - would he not be adept in coaching backlines and use a more comprehensive game plan than he did for the Sharks last year and did he not realize that the Stormers tried the same style in 2013 and also collapsed in a heap in the later stages of the tournament?
The aimless kicking style of play - is the worst style any team can adopt - it is not in line with the law changes since 2008 and other coaches has accepted the change - White never to date did.
There were serious limitations to Jake White's rugby acumen. In the 2007 WC he was going nowhere - since he was always clueless about backline play, so he brought Eddie Jones in to assist him in that respect.
In the case of the Brumbies he used Larkham as his backline coach. Larkham is now the Brumbies coach and the team is doing no worse than what it did under Jake White.
In the case of the Sharks - he never had a quality backline coach that could take a strong stand - and he cottoned onto Francois Steyn, while kicking and kicking and kicking became the norm. The Sharks backline was the worst performing attacking backline in Super 15 last year - purely because the style of play imposed did not allow for scoring of tries - aimless and highly ineffective kicking by especially Francois Steyn became the norm. It drove the Sharks spectators away from Kings Park in droves. If Steyn had any rugby acumen he would know when to kick and when to pass - he does not know that.
If White has the acumen you say he has - would he not be adept in coaching backlines and use a more comprehensive game plan than he did for the Sharks last year and did he not realize that the Stormers tried the same style in 2013 and also collapsed in a heap in the later stages of the tournament?
The aimless kicking style of play - is the worst style any team can adopt - it is not in line with the law changes since 2008 and other coaches has accepted the change - White never to date did.
Captain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2015, 04:47
#9
09 Mar 2015, 04:47#9
Nope that's not how it was.Jake won TN04, was within 3 minutes of winning TN 05.... Was hounded by our rugby establishment in 06 and lost Burger his key player. Brought it back in 07 to win the WC.
Criticized by some for not having TN pedigree, he immediately took the Brumbies to the finals and the Sharks to the semis, even though they were far from the best team.
Not a fine record, a great record. Achieved in part because he always had enough confidence to bring in the best including Eddie Jones.
Criticized by some for not having TN pedigree, he immediately took the Brumbies to the finals and the Sharks to the semis, even though they were far from the best team.
Not a fine record, a great record. Achieved in part because he always had enough confidence to bring in the best including Eddie Jones.
Coach57,555 posts
09 Mar 2015, 05:00
#10
09 Mar 2015, 05:00#10
Mozart
That makes it sound significant - but suddenly White has had the great knowledge of bringing in Eddie Jones. The fact that he did bring in Eddie Jones indicates to me that he finally realized there was a serious deficiency in his coaching - and he rectified that in the case of the Brumbies as well with Larkham.
Why did he not realize that in the case of the Sharks? Why did he not realize the rot in the Sharks playing style last year and try to correct it? Why did he not take note of Francois Steyn's performance deficiencies and act to correct it?
I was always a supporter of Jake White - but his year at the Sharks ended up in disappointment because of a seriously defective game plan and there is no way one can get away from that argument.
That makes it sound significant - but suddenly White has had the great knowledge of bringing in Eddie Jones. The fact that he did bring in Eddie Jones indicates to me that he finally realized there was a serious deficiency in his coaching - and he rectified that in the case of the Brumbies as well with Larkham.
Why did he not realize that in the case of the Sharks? Why did he not realize the rot in the Sharks playing style last year and try to correct it? Why did he not take note of Francois Steyn's performance deficiencies and act to correct it?
I was always a supporter of Jake White - but his year at the Sharks ended up in disappointment because of a seriously defective game plan and there is no way one can get away from that argument.
Captain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2015, 05:30
#11
09 Mar 2015, 05:30#11
Eddie Jones wasn't with Jake when he won the TN in 04. He won because he perfected the push defence.and we scored plenty of long strike tries, Hiring Eddie in the RWC helped....in the pool games. In the QFs we had to resort to tight rugby to put down Fiji....same thing in the finals. The Eddie learned skills had nothing to do with those wins.
Just another way Jake haters try to blemish his WC win, and Bok rugby along with it.
Just another way Jake haters try to blemish his WC win, and Bok rugby along with it.
Captain40,032 posts
09 Mar 2015, 07:10
#12
09 Mar 2015, 07:10#12
Well said Dr Moz. How anybody can have the temerity to criticise Jake's record is a surprise.Re the Sharsk one must bear in mind that the fact that there were so many injuries disrupted the team and also ment some players were overplayed. To reach the semis in such conditions was no mean feat.Some guys have trouble seeing context and ignore even obvious things like bent down under refs and injuries and even the travel bug which is worst when travelling from here to downunder. Altitude can also play a part as well as i might have mentioned before!
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