South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR

" Of the 14 tries scored - 14 were scored when Morne was NOT on the field of play - he was injured early in the case of the Welsh test last year"

Er Oom. In the welsh test you reference two tries of the three tries were scored in 17 minutes before Morne was hurt....in the remaining 63 minutes under Lambie they scored one try. Kinda blows up your whole theory...hey? So I'm afraid you will have to do your sums again.
But try to avoid statements like 14 of 14 tries were scored when Morne was not on the park....it makes you look like a moron.

 Mozart
Of the 31 tries scored - 14 was scored when Morne was not on the field of play.   Sorry about that mistake by me.  
However, the whole story about Morne is BS.  His involvement in scoring of triues were virtually non-existent in any event.    I have seen more bugger-ups from Morne that cost us dearly aand which is papered over by you and the dof one than anyone can remember.  
Remind me again of his missed tckles that led to tries - his bumbling in passing when he should kick and vice versa -  and you see  the real Morne Steyn.  In all the tests since 2011 in which Morne played we lost all games against the All Blacks and bar two lost all against the Wallabies.   Put that together and you see the contribution he made in total.
A safe but robotic and predictable player that cost us dearly all the time in competitive games against teams we should beat regularly - but never seems to be able to achieve.  He cost us three test wins when he played for the Springboks against the AB's in 2012 and 2013 when eh was anything but safe in his performances.  END OD STORY.           

 Mozart
Of the 31 tries scored - 14 was scored when Morne was not on the field of play.   Sorry about that mistake by me.  
However, the whole story about Morne is BS.  His involvement in scoring of triues were virtually non-existent in any event.    I have seen more bugger-ups from Morne that cost us dearly aand which is papered over by you and the dof one than anyone can remember.  
Remind me again of his missed tckles that led to tries - his bumbling in passing when he should kick and vice versa -  and you see  the real Morne Steyn.  In all the tests since 2011 in which Morne played we lost all games against the All Blacks and bar two lost all against the Wallabies.   Put that together and you see the contribution he made in total.
A safe but robotic and predictable player that cost us dearly all the time in competitive games against teams we should beat regularly - but never seems to be able to achieve.  He cost us three test wins when he played for the Springboks against the AB's in 2012 and 2013 when eh was anything but safe in his performances. 
The know-nothing whio thinks he knows more than the Stade Francais coach knows about the Stade Francais Reject - what a joke!!!!    END OF STORY.           

 Wrong again....19 of the 31 tries were scored when Morne was on the park:
Oz...3NZ...4Wls....in 17 minutes...2France...1Wls...5Was...4
In fact if you consider that the 15 minutes of the game in Wales is less than the time he was subbed in other games.....he has played 5 games in which we scored 19 tries. Nearly  the same average as we had in all 8 tests, but excluding the easy games against Scotland.
So make your point again, and while you are about it, tell us why the try scoring pace dropped after Morne was subbed for Lambie in Cardiff.

 Moz, tell us what part Morne had in De Villiers try? It was created solely by Habana and Du Preez try happened whilst Morne was off the field. Also something to take into account is how Lambie started at fullback that match, which means he prepared to play that position and not flyhalf. 
Morne is not a running flyhalf and when he does try to run he is ineffective. He hasn't made a decent linebreak in 3 years and his kicking percentage has plummeted drastically since then as well. 

 So the de Villiers try happened while Morne was off the park.....gosh....he must have made a quick return


8Halfpenny - penalty goal6 - 3106 - 8de Villiers - try116 - 10Steyn - conversion12Hook - sub on
LB Williams - sub off
Beck - sub on
JJV Davies - sub off

 Dof Doos
You love to quote stats - but you leave out the fact that Plisson was inviolved in international games on most dates where you said Morne started.   
Of the nine games quoted 4 was when Morne actually started while Plisson was available - the rest he was not.   
Of the 26 games played - there was I believe 1 gme where neither Morne nor Plisson was in the match day 23.   Of the remaining 25  the situation was as follows:-
Plisson not available  =    5 games
Plisson started -  16 gamesMorne started  -   9 games
If Plisson was abailable Morne would have started in only 4 games out of the 25 played.   What does that mean?  it means he nevr really made the grade and was not considered as Stade Francais' no 1 flyhalf.    

 Mozart
Dunce - it is not the number of tries scored by the Springboks that is important - it is the role Morne played in scoring of the tries.   His role was peripheral - much like the role of the scrummie is - he passed the ball.   
Did he -
*   ever attacked the gain line in a move which resulted in a try;*   ever made a line break in a move that resulted in a try;*   ever drew in defenders creating space for others to score a try.
I can remember one try being scored from a cross kick made by Morne Steyn (ie at Eden Park) - for the rest he was never credited by ESPN for assisting in scoring of any tries.   .   
Pollard played in one game and did all the above and Morne never did anything like that in any of the  above categories.   
Was Morne's role more important than the scrummies in the case in which tries were scored?   No it was not - so why try and use a smokescreen to make out that he was responsible for the scoring of the tries.   In the cases where forwards scored the tries - he did not even touch or pass the balls - so why make t out as if he is to be credited as playing a role in that regard? 
The whole situation remains - Morne is not a playmaker - he is not a player that initiates anything - and he is not a good defender at all.   He is just bog ordinary and is not even the regular starting flyhalf of the Club he plays for.     

 clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11528 RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 06:39:20  Dof Doos
You love to quote stats - but you leave out the fact that Plisson was inviolved in international games on most dates where you said Morne started.   
Of the nine games quoted 4 was when Morne actually started while Plisson was available - the rest he was not.   
Of the 26 games played - there was I believe 1 gme where neither Morne nor Plisson was in the match day 23.   Of the remaining 25  the situation was as follows:-
Plisson not available  =    5 games
Plisson started -  16 gamesMorne started  -   9 games
If Plisson was abailable Morne would have started in only 4 games out of the 25 played.   What does that mean?  it means he nevr really made the grade and was not considered as Stade Francais' no 1 flyhalf.    

"You love to quote stats" No. You are the clown who quotes the stats, but only when it suits your agenda.

First of all, I am glad that you have now also confirmed that Morne started 9 games and not three like Safesex' sweat-heart would have us believe. Yes, Plisson was away on national duty but you seem to forget that Steyn started, with Plisson on the bench, on tow occasions after 6N rounds. You claimed, earlier, this year that Steyn was back on the bench immediately after the 6N rounds. In any case, Plisson was not even on the bench for France's last 6N gme. If Steyn was so kak and  Quesara was so  desperate to play Plisson ahead of Steyn, he could surely have requested to have him back. Coincidently, Plisson did not feature on the Australian tour for France either, and he made a  balls-up of the second play-off game against Wasps.

Even in the Amlin  cup, Steyn and Plisson got one starting game each. For the rest of the series the duties were shared between Vincent Mallett and another flyhalf.

Right at the end of the season, the flyhalf duties were shared between Steyn and Plisson, in  the two vital play-off games. Steyn played the first one away and Waps won by one point. Plisson played in the second one, at home for SF and he made a total balls-up of the game. Say what you like, I would not be too surprised if Steyn do not start more often than Plisson, unless Plisson gets himself back in favour in the French national side again. If that does not happen, there would be no reason for and no pressure on Quesada to start with Plisson.

 Dof Doos
That game where Steyn started and Plisson on the bench was in the off weekend in the 6 Nations where it was logical that Plisson - after an absence of more than 4 weeks from the team - should not start.  
And Plisson made a balls up of one game - Morne did it constantly according to the games I have seen.   So there were presure on the coach to start with Plisson.  What a joke - the pressure was the result of Morne's poor performances - nothing else.  
Morne is in the best position he should ever be - on the bench for Stade Francais.  D efinitely not in the Springbok team - where he fails more often than not - like in the second test against Wales. 

 Ag gaan praat jou kak op 'n ander plek, drol. It is a well-known fact that you head straight over to ESPN and look at the stats and them draw your own conclusions and then formulate your little bullshit essays. Your problem starts when you try and reason about games where there are no stats available for. That is when you have to start fabricating and design your own little theories about the decisions that coaches make. The results of those little fantasies/fabrications are well-known. A perfect example was the Paris Saint Germaine fiasco and  the one where you had Ali Williams replacing Bakkies, in a game that they were both on the field at the same time.

One day, hopefully, you will wake up from Lala Land. You are in the same league as someone on this board who once had Solly and Tyibilika as his flankers in the same team. He did the same with Danie and Rossouw on another occasion.

 Mozart you might want to read my comment again, I said Du Preez try happened whilst Morne was off the field injured. Shame you can't argue against anything else in my comment though.

 Ceradyne how about you watch the matches instead or researching the technicalities, Morne has been shit for a long time. He was fantastic for us, but those days are gone and he should be removed based on his performances for the past 3 years.

 Bwahahahahaha ou windpomp still harping on aboiut my typo re Solly and Danie. This is all the twit has after years of effort! It's his crowning achievement - two typos by beeno 

Windpomp please try to not confirm your label as a dof doos. For your own sake oak. Thanks

 Cheaser ou windpomp is lost in the past. Man those typos of mine happened years ago but he treasures them still. 

 

Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 973 RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 12:48:20  Ceradyne how about you watch the matches instead or researching the technicalities, Morne has been shit for a long time. He was fantastic for us, but those days are gone and he should be removed based on his performances for the past 3 years.

Don't get yourself in the same position as your budy, ou Maaikie. Unlike Mike, and apparently you, I have actually watched most of the Top14 games. That is why I am confident that Mike has no fucking clue what he is talking about, and I have proven that time and again. You want me to list the times when he got it wrong. As a matter of interest, how  many Top14/HC/Amlin Cup games have you watched. I have never once said that Morne Steyn is the best in the world, or in France or in Europe. I have said, on many occasions,  that he is currently our best option on the whole. He is certainly not nearly as crap  as you and your idol would like to believe. In addition, none of all the "boy wonders" especially your little god, Goosen has delivered. It is only now, with Pollard, that we can start thinking about a replacement for the guy.

In 2010/early 2011 we were told, with great fanfare by the anti-Morne establishment, that his days were numbered and that Lambie and Jantjies - yes, fokken Jantjies - were going to win us the 2011 RWC. Then Goosen came on the scene as well and Steyn was suddenly "relegated" to fourth or fifth in line by "the establishment". What happened?

Hahahaha, it is 2014 and he is still going and still the best available. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

As for Morne being on the bench more than Plisson at Stade Francais....... imagine if Pollard became the regular Bok 10 and the Bulls contacted Plisson and kept on playing  Plisson in the starting XV. How long would it be before you, ou Maaikie and co start pissing about the Bulls playing our Bok flyhalf of the bench? Come on be honest now .

 Oops, sorry ou Beenbal. Didn't  know  that it still hurts so much .

  Windpomp
That is a mirage - Morne really is not good enough anymore and was not since 2012.  He was at one stage in 2012 dropped by Meyer himself - because he was so poor.   He then made a comeback in 2013 - but was really not international quality.  This year hje was back to 2012 and the second test against the Welsh he was "beroerd".
So why should he be continued with - we will never beat the Aussies and AB's this year with him anywhere near the team.  Way past time to move on from that guy.    

Then tell me Ceradyne how comes Steyn has yet to score a try for Stade Francais? Tell me how did Goosen do against the Aussies in SA 2012? Meyer knows Goosen's quality. Granted injuries have stunted his growth as a player, it's unwise to write him off. Even now he is better than Steyn with his lack of good form, against World XV Goosen managed to score a try that Morne would have not. 

Ahhh there we go again. Goosen was  brilliant against a full strength Aussie who had no issues, not even down to  14 men at some stage, let alone down to 13 players? Yes, the Aussies were not disrupted in that game in the least. Yeag right. It was Goosen who won us that one. Do not forget about the test against NZ in 2012. The test was locked in a draw and we were in with a chance of winning it, and then Morne was taken off and replaced by Goosen.......

"Then tell me Ceradyne how comes Steyn has yet to score a try for Stade Francais?" Damn, but now you are digging deep hey. Remind us again. How many tries has Goosen scored for the Boks? Morne has scored  8.

All  your figures mean nothing, Moz. That is  just getting into technicalities. The bottom line is that Morne has yet to score a try for Stade Francais.

ermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11530 RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 13:55:51   Windpomp
That is a mirage - Morne really is not good enough anymore and was not since 2012.  He was at one stage in 2012 dropped by Meyer himself - because he was so poor.   He then made a comeback in 2013 - but was really not international quality.  This year hje was back to 2012 and the second test against the Welsh he was "beroerd".
So why should he be continued with - we will never beat the Aussies and AB's this year with him anywhere near the team.  Way past time to move on from that guy.     
Ou Superdrol twisting the truth around again. Meyer has said all along that Morne has played too much rugby and that was the truth. He was, at the time, one of the Boks who has played amongst the most, if not the most number of minutes since the beginning of 2009, and that is no bullshit.You can go check for yourself. He desperately needed a break and that is what HM did for the 2012 EOYT. He took him along on tour but he did not play him at all. Why? He wanted him there for two reasons, i.e. to keep him involved and to  have him available, should push comes to shove. I had and argument about that EOYT on another site and I can go search for my post if you really want to. Before the tour I argued that Steyn should not go on the tour. When the squad was announced, I said that I hoped that HM was just planning on taking him along without playing him.

 Doffiies 
How many matches did Morne played in and which teams did the Springboks play when eh scored those 8 tries in 56 test matches.     He scored 2 of the 8 tries in the 2011 WC campoaign - must have been against Namibia or a similar side in 5 matches played .    In the RC he scored 1 try - I believe against New Zealand.   The other 5 tries came against other countries  in 50 matches played.    It is no wonder that in one match in Super 15 - the commentator said - "This is a rear occasion - you don't see that often - this is the first try Morne scored in Super 15 since 2009."   That was in 2012!!!!    
Read the following excerpt from ESPN and you will then find out what really is the situation as far as Steyn is concerned:-
"Steyn struggled with his form in the 2011 Super Rugby campaign but kept his place in the Springboks side for the end of season Tri-Nations tournament. However - after a poor performance against the Wallabies, Steyn was told he was playing for his South Africa future in the Boks' second game of the tournament against New Zealand.

And that has been the story of Steyn's international career. He oscillates between Man of the Match performances and then costing his side valuable points with erratic kicking a week later. During 2010 he was the Boks' undisputed first choice No.10 and he kept that mantle during the 2011 World Cup but when Heineke Meyer took charge of the Boks then eventually he opted for Johan Goosen at No.10 towards the end of 2012."

The hiighlightd part is the real problem.   When Steyn is poor - he is extremely poor - and in most matches he is poor. 

I will tell you what went wrong with Morne Steyn.   He is such a predictable player that the opposition found out in one season in 2009 how to deal with him and since then he was erratic - but most ly on the negative side.    You cannot have an utterly-predictable player as a flyhalf and expect miracles to happen.

 Reading through the above baseless arguments about Morne I'm left to wonder who you lot would have played instead?....Jantjies the pretender, the average Lambie, oh wait on.... surely not the brittle Goosen? ...yeah right...well he was never around.

 

 

So if it's anyone else but Morne then I guess you lot are hilarious.

 And still old SuperTurd battles on:

"However - after a poor performance against the Wallabies, Steyn was told he was playing for his South Africa future in the Boks' second game of the tournament against New Zealand."

Who said that, where and when? Quote?

".......but when Heineke Meyer took charge of the Boks then eventually he opted for Johan Goosen at No.10 towards the end of 2012."

And yet again old SuperTurd ignores the fact that HM kept on saying that Morne has played too much and desperately needed a break. In addition,  you keep on ignoring the fact that the start of  HM's tenure was disrupted by the fact that he was appointed at the eleventh hour, leaving him the least time to  do any planning that any other Bok Coach in the professional era. The result was that we were struggling up front, which was not helped by the fact that some of the players that HM bargained on were out injured from the outset, i.e. Schalk Burger and Duane Vermeulen. Our struggles up front put Hougaardt under pressure, which in turn did not help Steyn, which in turn did not help with the rest of the back-line either. Of course the anti-Steyn brigade had a field day in the media. To get back  to Steyn. Like HM said, and kept on saying, Steyn needed a break but he could not give him a break because Johan Glaasen was once again injured and Jantjies was....... well..... Jantjies. The moment when Glaasen was supposed to be ready, the poor bugger dropped the Boks by breaking down..... again. The next opportunity for  the break was on the EOYT, which I have discussed above. After that break, it was back to normal again. Hopefully in Pollard, we have at last found a flyhalf partner for  the Boks. The All Blacks have Cruden and Barrett with Carter still in the back ground. We have had, for years, Steyn............... Glaasen... Lambie (who doesn't know if he is a flyhalf or a FB)................................................................Jantjies. At least sonce the start of the June tests and after that JWC we   now   have    Steyn/Pollard/Boshoff (?) ................... Glaasen.....  Lambie ....and fuck knows who else.

I'm going to leave it at that, you two are too dumb to realise the truth. Basking in Morne's past glories which he has spiralled away from. 

 Shezza
Goosen had a brilliant game today - one of the best in Super 15.  Morne could never play the game Goosen has played today.
The dumb fools we have to put up on this site is incredible.

Really....and there I was thinking you were enjoying our little debate.  

South Africa struggles a bit with producing flyhalfs. Goosen is the best talent we have had in ages, hopefully he gets over his injuries. 
Meyer would have liked Goosens performance today especially his territorial kicking game. He might have the longest kick in the game. This contributed to the Sharks losing today as they were allways going to lose the territorial battle with kicks

 Sure - I am enjoying silliness - one can really laugh at it - like Mr Bennett said in Pride and Prejudice.   But sometimes even that could get boring.

Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3341 RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 21:40:59 South Africa struggles a bit with producing flyhalfs. Goosen is the best talent we have had in ages, hopefully he gets over his injuries. 
Meyer would have liked Goosens performance today especially his territorial kicking game. He might have the longest kick in the game. This contributed to the Sharks losing today as they were allways going to lose the territorial battle with kicks
How is constantly producing in the S15 and constantly failing at test level going to please HM?

Doffies
 When did Goosen fail at test level?   He played one full test and was very good.  He came on from the bench twice and did not fail.  In the last test he started in he was injured - he never failed.   Are you li ving in dream world?

 

clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11551 RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 06, 2014, 00:41:39 Doffies
 When did Goosen fail at test level?   He played one full test and was very good.  He came on from the bench twice and did not fail.  In the last test he started in he was injured - he never failed.   Are you living in dream world?
Really? He played against a depleted and disrupted Aussie side. He came on with the scores level and then made a number of blunders that cost us the test. Do you want to revisit the thread were all of that was discussed, complete with video footage, the works ? I can get it for you if you like.

Gentlemen & others: perhaps the scale below  would help structure your appreciation of each others comments on this thread