South African Rugby

I am not a fan of South African rugby.

The Apartheid era ensured that.

1995 was another when - Lets be honest - South Africa were not the best side in that world cup and should never have won it - That result sowed alot of people.

There have been many more.

And then taking off to the Northern Hemisphere - South Africans say that they were forced to - That was rubbish - The threatened it for several years and in the end the Southern Hemisphere sides waived them good by.

The moaned and groaned about the travel and the continued loses.

Now what happens when they continue to lose in the Northern Hemisphere - They will soon find playing in the European winter a very hard grind.

Where will they go when they find that they are not doing well in Europe as that will happen eventually.

South African Rugby have really made some bad decisions over the years - And this could be a big one.

South Africa has a population of 60 million - The team from across the ditch has 5 million people - Very one sided there - However - I am hoping that NZ does us all a favour in the weekend and beat the Springboks and beat them well.

NZ screwed up last weekend trying to play an open game - Lets hope they step up this week.

If rugby as a sport is going to grow - The South African way is not the way to grow it - In fact people are being turned of the game.    

I can see you are very pained that SA could be leaving you guys to suffer huge finacial losses etc.

But Queen you have only yourselves to blame. Unfair refs, inequitable financial sharing etc.

You may not realize it but population size doesn't mean too much when the vast majority of South Africans don't play rugby. Ditto in Oz you big fake. Wherea bouts in South Africa do you live?

Yeah, winning World Cups is the highest accolade in World rugby but it can be deceiving.

Winning a final by a drop kick or a penalty, ie Joel Stransky and Jonny Wilkinson makes a team the best in world can be an anomaly.

On the otherhand there is no other way as in all sport it's the result that counts, ie NZ won WC in NZ by a mere 1 point against France. If Trinh Duc had converted an easy shot for goal at an early stage in the game, it would have made France World Champions. The strange thing France lost a pool game against Tonga earlier on. France would have claimed to be best in the world.

That would be untrue. To be honest too as much as it appears disloyal, the 1995 AB's were the best in world, in fact Fitzy's team was probably the best ever besides Willie John's Lions side in 1974.

On the otherhand as much as I found apartheid distateful I always found bringing politics into sport unfair to sportsman. I once shared a table at a business conference with Wynand Claasen and what he related to the tour in NZ, flour bombs, sleeping under stadiums and screaming hooligans unacceptable.

Typical comment looking for causes in all places except where they are.

Instead of looking at SA rugby to determine whether SA rugby call for such observations, the causes are rooted elsewhere, most of the times, in the group a poster is suspected to belong to.

Usual stuff.

It is NZ and Australian English to be exact.

I do live in Brisbane and I am all female.

Wynand Claasen would not know much.

The New Zealanders were protesting about - All the aparteid beliefs - He was representing Racism - They did not want the South Africans in NZ.

It is a bit rich to be in NZ and critise the fact that they were protesting what the Springboks represented.

Once again  - South Africans with blinkers on - The Kiwis did not want the shit head South Africans there and hence the riots - The simple truth was - The South Africans were not welcome - Wynand Claasen was not wanted in NZ.

There are many New Zealanders who absolutely loath South Africa concerning not allowing  non white All Blacks to play in South Africa and what follows that is distaste for the NZ Rugby Union  for even considering touring South Africa with sides that as we found out later were not true All Black teams.

What that Wynand Claasen has to say is not really respected at all - GO AND TELL HIM THAT.  

And Beeno - All teams have their share of referee calls go against them - None more so than that stink forward pass by the French in the 2007 Quarter final - But it happened and teams have to get on with it.

South Africans seem to think that it only happens to them and that is absolute rubbish.

We wait with patience to see the massive mistakes that South African rugby have made concerning going up north - I say again -What are you going to when that does not work out - You are running and hiding and when the Europe venture fails where are you going to go?

Australia and NZ didn't want you - So lets me totally practical - When the stink hits up north  The South Africans will pack up their toys and go running and hiding again.    

They moaned whinged for 10 years - Blaming the travel and the refs - Well we got the same treatment in South Africa with very poor refs - The real problem was - They could not handle the losses - We see that most of teams up North got hidings on the weekend again - They are just not good enough - The South African Super teams have had that many changes over the years because - Essentially they have not been successful - Chopping and changing occurs when there is failure.     

The 1995 team wasn't very well known in terms of talent. In hindsight, it was absolutely loaded! 

Du Randt, Swart, Wiese, Kruger, Andrews, Joost, Stransky, Mulder, Small, Joubert, Venter...most of those names are legends of the game. The depth was extremely good. 

So, your opening statement is incorrect. The Boks were equal to or better than New Zealand in almost every position. 

Miss Queen you are clearly living in the past

Quite rich to write when posters on this board keep living in the past, they can not face present times and keep bemoaning about a supposed lost past glory.

we don’t live in that era anymore!! And politics has got no place in sport and also not on ruckers forum

People who suffer under the apartheid are still alive. Makes no sense to declare an era dead in this case.

Of course, politics have a place in sports. Claiming otherwise on a rugby forum dedicated to SA rugby is ludicrous.

If politics have no place in sports, then SA rugby would not exist in the first place.

And if politics were not involved, then the obvious decision of terminating SA rugby would have been taken already.

That is politics that keep that walking corpse known as SA rugby alive.

‘These idiots have not taking responsibility for the passed ( sic) at all’….the irony.

Actually I was responding to Queensland’s attack on stuff way above her pay grade.

No worries.

Meaning it’s just a misunderstanding…I’m relaxed about it.

Not hate at all.

It was never my problem.

Perhaps you need to actually go and ask the Non Whites - Who had to bare the hatred and the stinking Apartheid - Their thoughts would be quite different to yours.

it is easy to bury the passed when you lot were the ones causing the putrid stench - hence why I called it - similar to Nazi activity.

The quota's now are just a reverse of that - What goes around comes around.

The problem here is - You just don't like to be reminded of it.

"

.comparing Apartheid to Nazis is ignorance of the highest order.

Indeed. Germany has taken responsibility for their past actions and do not live in the denial of it.

Nazi criminals have been chased down and sentenced to death penalty sometimes.

It does not compare to SA.

It was white South Africans who ended Apartheid and gave over power into the hands of people who outnumbered them 10 to 1..

They got their hands forced and got a nice deal in the doing among other things: no charges pressed against them.

Which is much different from nazi Germany.

People, who are alive now, are walking free when they confessed for example, going to black shanty towns, claimed to have job offers, pressed people in a bus, stopped the bus in the middle of nowhere, locked the doors, set the bus on fire, leaving everyone in the bus burning to death.

Second class citizens when they are allowed to walk free, impunished. Usually, impunity is anything but a sign of being treated as a second class citizen.This kind of impunity is the sign of deeply anchored priviledges.

How pointless this effort of turning tables is. Delusion runs deep.

How about your convict family Queensland….shall we go into that? 

Quennie don't bother yourself on political issues that took place in RSA.

If you are so concerned read what is really taking place in Africa as a whole, perhaps you approve of that way of life!

Better still go on a camping trip to Africa.

Rather concern yourself about the crime, corruption and destruction of the country and how only the "Connected Blacks" are blundering the spoils.

Many blacks are worse off under the ANC.

No work, food or health care and stealing to survive.

No political party in RSA was/is perfect but none were as corrupt as the present regime.

By the way your roast in the oven is burning.

The ANC burned much more black people than the Apartheid regime...war is ugly. ..condemnation of the ANC does not mean Apartheid is condoned...but you seem to think two wrongs make a right...I've got news for you, wrong is always wrong...even if you think it's for the right reason...and your hate is wrong...the thing about a secular view...it's like a magnet to the moral compass...and yours are clearly compromised. 

LOL,

Some of the comments about me on here - discriminating that I am a female are a laugh.

Like for example:

By the way your roast in the oven is burning.

Well you need to get off your backside - take the burnt roast out of the oven and enjoy your own cooking.

A bit last century  God help the poor women in South Africa if they have to put up with these so called men (Get with it - You are years behind). 

Your knowledge of women is about as good as your knowledge of rugby - ZILCH.

While Quennie is trying to save the roast she might want to consider this….one of many examples:

Queensland[edit]

• 1918 Bentinck Island: Part of the Wellesley Islands group, which includes Mornington Island, Bentinck Island was home to the Kaiadilt clan of just over 100 people. In 1911, a man by the name of McKenzie (other names unknown) was given a government lease for nearby Sweers Island that also covered the eastern portion of the much larger Bentinck Island. Arriving on Bentinck with an Aboriginal woman plus a flock of sheep, he built a hut near the Kurumbali estuary. Although the Kaiadilt avoided contact and refrained from approaching McKenzie's property he is alleged to have often explored the island, shooting any males he found while raping the women. In 1918, McKenzie organised a hunt with an unknown number of settlers from the mainland and, beginning from the northern tip of the island, herded the Indigenous inhabitants to the beach on its southern shore. The majority of the Kaiadilt fled into the sea where those that were not shot from the shore drowned. Those that tried to escape along the beach were hunted down and shot, with the exception of a small number who reached nearby mangroves where the settlers' horses could not follow. Several young women were raped on the beach, then held prisoner in McKenzie's hut for three days before being released. As the Kaiadilt remained isolated throughout much of the 20th century, the massacre remained unknown to the authorities until researchers recorded accounts given by survivors in the 1980s.[192]

…..

Perhaps you might want to focus on your own disgraceful history.

I think you can save your own roast.

My husband cooks his own so you can to - LOL

You presumed I am Australian - Wrong.

Their problems are not my problems.

Nor are South Africa’s but that didn’t stop you.

The one's pointing fingers and shouting loudest, are normally the ones perpetrating the same sins when the shoe is on the other foot.

It never fails. Even when prepared, the worship for nothingness is still taken as a hit.

Nothing at all.

Starting with:

The ones pointing fingers and shouting loudest are usually the ones perpetrating the same sins etc

But this is incomplete.

It must be added that when they are not, they wish they could be perpetrating the same sins.

At this stage, it is complete.

People pointing fingers are usually the worst perpetrators and when they are not, as it may happen, they simply wish they could be the ones.

Emptiness, nothingness. Those people have nothing to offer. Because at this stage, this is not even wishful thinking.

The ANC burned much more black people than the Apartheid regime...war is ugly...condemnation of the ANC does not mean Apartheid is condoned...but you seem to think two wrongs make a right...I've got news for you, wrong is always wrong...

The cult for emptiness.

The ANC. What that is, the same government that failed to take one decision showing governance: the termination of SA rugby.

They burned blacks. So what. The question should about the number of white people they burnt using similar tactics. And how many of them got a free pass for it.

War. What war that is. The act was performed during peace times.

Two wrongs not making one right. Gross. The climax of emptiness.

One wrong: burning people in the bus

Another wrong: not prosecuting people behind the act on the behalf of a supposed reconciliation.

Adding one to the other does not result with making one right for the perpetrator. His life is a torment and the worst thing that could have been from the two wrongs.

Who must believe that stuff. There is nothing. It is all written in the same thread yet denial as usual.

There is no point claiming that adding two wrongs does not make one right when SA is a living example of the opposite.

That is because of people like that that Christianity has devolved into that ideology that beckons to criminals the most: having faith in Jesus is enough to open the doors of the heavens.

SA people want to get things advance: they start petitioning the ANC government for them to take the decision that must be: termination of SA rugby.

"One wrong: burning people in the bus

Another wrong: not prosecuting people behind the act on the behalf of a supposed reconciliation."

Who burned the people on the bus? Where's the evidence? It's wrong and horrible to burn people and it's wrong not to prosecute such offenders ...both sides...Winnie propagated burning "impimpi"(informers) on live TV...your simplistic and naive opinion of what happened in my country is so sad...and your understanding of the Christian faith even more so....you are a hater...of the same ilk as the perpetrators during Apartheid and Nazi Germany...good luck, some day karma will catch up to you, as to us all...we're just waiting for tbe hammer to fall.

The Boks have only won one tour of Australia and New Zealand ,yep....1937.

They were called the "the Invincibles" Yep,Craven,Nel,Turner and yes Bastard....Ebbo Bastard the flanker. Nel the captain got back to the hotel at 1am the night before the final game after attending a black-tie  function.
Those days one had a choice of line-out or scrum if the ball crossed the touchline and the Boks chose the latter fooling the ABs who had been practising line-outs all week.
Three World Cups and none of  the teams have repeated this feat.

Crusaders are the only Super Rugby team to my knowledge who have won over 50% of their games in SA and Aus.56% and 57%.

Well done South Africa - LOL  in may ways.

At Moonrover, yes indeed Oom Flip's side was indeed historical. Old Collegians are very aware of his accolades.

Ebbo Bastard who was a flank in that side had a tragic ending.

My late mother told me the story.

Her family farmed in the Southern Drakensberg and districts stretching up to East Griqualand, Kokstad, Cedarville Districts.

Ebbo Bastard farmed in Cedarville and he had an adulterous affair with an adjourning farmers wife. She left him and married Bastard. One night at a social event in Kokstad she taunted her ex-husband, Peter Young. As Bastard was climbing into his car he took a shotgun and shot Bastard in the chest at point blank. He was later tried for murder but because of extenuating circumstances received a light sentence. Peter Young never recovered from this and lost his farm and ended up driving taxi's in Maritzburg.

Ebbo's son Billy was a senior when I first started at College as a new boy. He had changed his surname to O'Hagin. Billy became a journalist and a successful businessman manufacturing sausages. 

A very, very tragic story.

 Philip Nel, the greatest Springbok ever

Forum » Rugby » Philip Nel, the greatest Springbok ever

Sebastienchabal

Senior player

3164 posts

Nov 08, 2013, 11:07

Some will undoubtedly disagree with this but if rugby players are to remembered forever...Oom Flip certainly won't be forgotten if by South Africans at least not by New Zealanders. If assessment depend on achievements, Philip has them all.

I thought of him the other day. Driving through the little farming village of Greytown and turning off to the left on the road that leads to Dundee, I was on my way to go fly-fishing for trout on the farm that was once Philip Nel's. The fishing club I belong to leases dams and rivers from farmers in KZN midlands and berg. This farm has 2 dam's stocked with trout, Philip Nel's Dam and Dad's Dam so named after him.

My interest in him might stem from the fact that he went to my old school way back in the early 1900's but justifiably there is far more than that. He led the only Springbok side that had a clean sweep of NZ and Australia...what an achievement.

Philip J. Nel

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Memorial tablet at 'Menneheim' near Greytown

Philip Jacobus Nel (17 June 1902, in Kranskop district of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa – 11 February 1984, in Greytown) was a former South African Springbok captain.

The son of Piet Nel and Kitty Maritz, he was educated at Maritzburg College, matriculating as Head Prefect and captain of the rugby First XV in 1921. Nel enjoyed the rare distinction of earning a Natal (open) rugby cap while still at school. He made his debut for the Springboks against the 1928 All Blacks, and captained the side in 1933 (against the Wallabies) and on the all-conquering tour of Australia and New Zealand in 1937. Known affectionately as "The Greatest Springboks", Nel's 1937 team remains the only Springbok team ever to have won a test series in New Zealand.

Nel saw action in World War II, serving as a major in the Umvoti Mounted Rifles.

Married to Jose Havemann, they produced a family of 4 children. Affectionately known as "oom Flip", he farmed at 'Vetspruit' and died at his home in Greytown on 11 February 1984, after a long illness.

 1

. your simplistic and naive opinion of what happened in my country is so sad...

Yet evidences of the example are asked. During the transition to end the apartheid, it was agreed that people could confess actions in exchange for impunity, all of this to be archived and public (As a side note, while somehow these days, people might complain about so called autodafes of books when it is non sense as today burning books have no chances to make the writings in books disappear, too many copies of them, including digital ones, they are much less vocal about the massive destruction of archives, that were documents with no other copies. That was an autodafe and one going against the mandatory duty by governments to keep their actions on book in order to be held accountable)

That is from where the example comes from, from the papers produced during this process.

Winnie propagated burning "impimpi"(informers) on live TV..

So dealing with traitors is set on the same level as rounding people on the promise of a job, locking them up in a bus and set the bus on fire. Great.

...you are a hater...of the same ilk as the perpetrators during Apartheid and Nazi Germany...

Again that sidetracking about hate.

Newsflash: most people in Nazi Germany were not driven by hate. They were driven by other things. On the other hand, their actions collected much hate as it must be.

Newsflash: hating on a nazi because of their actions does not make anyone a nazi. It is a mere human response natural to human beings as nazi actions are hatable.

Apartheid was about dehumanization, just as Nazi Germany was. And no surprise, the demand for dehumanization is made. It must be impossible to hate on Apartheid actions and their perpetrators. They must be immune to hate, even though if their actions commanded hate.

The project still is alive. Dehumanization of human beings must occur to satisfy the hubris of people.

In all cases, hating on dehumanizing acts never makes a person a lesser human being. On the very contrary, it is an expression of the human condition.