Starting From Scratch?

Now, the new caps selected by Rassie, and a breakdown of starting and bench caps. Why? To ascertain who was able to break into the first team. 

What does the above hope to mean dimness?   A poor effort to prove what?

An exact effort to show the players Rassie inherited. You and Herr Albie assert Rassie rebuilt the entire team from nothing; I said he rearranged a few pieces and settled on a more conservative game. You rejected both points; You have been debunked on both points. 

Here we see Rassie has a core of experienced players as his go-to players. The spine of the team. Of those he has brought in, only three wings, a lock and a centre really cracked the starting 15. You say Snyman and André were failures, so if you are right, that limits Rassie's successes to 3 wings. Nkosi and Dyantyi being patchy in several areas.

So where was the big rebuild? He was fortunate to have such a glut of usable pieces available to him. He benefitted from the Meyer and Coetzee era. 

So what have you proved poepies?   Ho many of the games players played from the bench and how many of the players were experienced professionals.   How many was in fact usable and used by Erasmus in more than two tests?   How many did he start and how many was from the bench.

Some figures were wrong as well - Meyer never used a Lions player in tests so how come Whiteley was one mentioned?   

No BSter - your reasoning is as per normal twisted and total BS.   Do the normally required proper evaluation  and then come up with what actually happened in test selection.    

Poepol is trying to tell us that Rassie would not have been able to put a side together had it not been for the cowardly Meyer ... and the brain dead Coetzee.

He is trying to tell us that these two failures brought in players through their wisdom and insight ... lol ... and that Rassie would have overlooked them other wise. 

Just as an example ... Meyer brought Mohoje in at 7 ... who by the way is apparently a vastly superior player to McCaw ... and Coetzee followed his lead by continuing with him, as well as introducing Cassiem to the Bok 8 jersey.  How's that for insight??

Same thing happened with Kirschner ... who by the way is a vastly superior full back to Israel Folau ... lol ... !!

What he doesn't say is that Rassie tested them both earlier this year and found them wanting. It wasn't long before he agreed with many of us that they were both useless quotas ... not worthy of another look and so he dumped them.

I think that that is when it dawned on him why his predecessors had failed so badly ... but being the gentleman that he is, he thought it best to give these useless players another shot. 

Same can be said about most of the player his two predecessors introduced to test match rugby. He gave them a shot and then discarded them like one does a used condom.

He has hung on to a few losers though ... but they weren't always that way ... as age has a way of reducing any and all to shadows of themselves. Right Mozart?

Thankfully ... he never stooped to the level of trying out chumps like Rudi Paige (which I see Poepies never listed) ... can't say I blame him.

Yes ... indeed ... Rassie tested all the player that his predecessors favoured so much ... discarding most of them ... seeing them for what the are ... useless

Eben was always going to be a Bok ... so was Marx and Du Toit ... Lood and Pollard ... Mostert and Whiteley. Rassie didn't need anyone to make that decision for him. In fact, he's had a tough time getting rid of the bad influences these two coaches brought about on these players.

We all saw how poorly Pollrd performed under them ... look what happened to Lood under their guiding hand. They fell part.

So yes ... Rassie had to start from scratch ... not only with making better selections ...but by working on these severely damaged players mentality ... their attitude and self belief ... as well as introduce a much needed game plan to them ... something that these players hadn't seen under these useless coaches.

 A job well done, Rassie. You have overcome much in your first season. You have built a a squad from scratch, with a new belief, a new attitude, a new brotherhood.

A few more tweaks and we're good to go.

Look forward to the coming year.

BB

I think your comments bout the loosies and center pairing are 100% correct - but there is a problem in both as well:-

*   Mozart and AO are at all out attack against Du Toit and was both in favour of Louw and Vermeulen, going so far as to have Kolisi moved to 7.    Reading carefully what they wrote under various threads the two want to get rid of Du Toit desperately as a loosie and as a lock as well.   What they want is apparently  Louw at 6, Kolisi at 7 and Vermeulen at 8.   I do not think any logical member would believe that would be the answer to the loosie problem.   I would rather see all three out of contention - but would rather see Kolisi at 6 if he has to be in the team - since there are only two other  options are Kriel and Labuschagne.   On he 7 side there are more options inasmuch as players lie Du Toit, the Du Preez twins, Van Dyk and Ackerman are available.

*   As to the centers I do not know.   The refrain of AO and his avid supporters  is that the answer is Esterhuizen, but he also have deficiencies and so has their other hero Am.   In the main those deficiencies centers around defense and even attacking play.  It I clear the center situation should be revised and a number of players were mentioned - amongst others Serfontein, Venter and even Sage and Visser.  I am sure that Erasmus knows there is a problem and that he will dealt with the issue based on scientific findings and not the BS so regularly spouted on this site by some of our members.

There is another issue and that relates to the locks.   Snyman started like a house on fire and slipped back to a state where his performances slipped down to a substandard level.   Etzbeth also became questionable performance-wise.   Mostert is good in line-outs - but with serious deficiencies as well.   So the other problem is at lock where we thought for a while there is not a deficiency  - but the situation is far from what it should be.   I think the Etzebeth issue must be sorted out asap and then we have alternatives like De Jager and Schickerling as well.  Solvable - but needing attention.        

How many times Herr Albie must Dr Auge have you sent for rectum reattachmet? I know this is all very exciting for you, but you must keep calm and do listen carefully before you orchestrate another embarrassing exit. 

Lügnerin. When one lies, that is the beginning of a very sad tale for the liar. How many times must you go down that road? Here, have a hanky...

AO

You are known o distort facts and make general statements without any substance and want people to believe you when you made them.  Under this thread there are statements made by you and also by your co-member Mozart - which dealt with real issues and the comments of you and Mozart that would only worsen the situation and not solve it,

To make statements as to lying is not the issue - when anybody counter your BS the member is classified by you as a lia r.  So get real for a change and stop distorting things further than you are really doing at present. 

Prove the statements of members you claimed to be lies are not correct  and is used as distortions - in which event it would allow you to continue carrying on with your standard campaigns.  

BSting Ceradunce

I did admit it happened that they were less than 5 points below the AB's in 2012 and 2013 and apologized  - but they were more than 5 points below the AB's in both 2014 and 2015.  

I admit when I am wrong - I do not persist with BS like Mozart and AO do when they get caught out.

Mozart

BS as expected

Mapimpi was great before he was injured. Dyantyi looked out of sorts against the NH teams. Nkosi was physically dominated too often and very poor making defensive reads. Kolbe is the best of the new wings. Overall, I'll give Rassie a pass for them, because they do have potential and are the best available. 

Snyman was a good call. So too André. 

Now, is the gameplan creating opportunities for our wings? No. Snyman is starter quality and André was cast aside for one of the worst centres I have ever seen. 

André changed the dynamic of the Bok game. We could pressure from 12. Seeing as we are a defensive kicking team, this is no triviality. A strong midfield press will back-up those kicks. A strong and aggressive defence from 10 and 12 discourages opponents from attacking the seam, and can corral the attack back inside where our forwards can feast on them , especially if we have a 13 who can marshal the edge. If they go wide, they will have to rush the pass and this forces errors. Our wings are a vulnerability on defence, so I'd work on the centres to conceal that vulnerability. 

Damian and Kriel cannot provide these things. Mapoe and Am were the best at 13 on defence. Am averaged 0.8 missed tackles; Kriel averaged 1.6. Am averaged 6.6 tackles; Kriel 4.9. 

Really good topic Aug, 

I agree that Rassie did not inherit a new team and too build from scratch. It is more his arrogance to think that he can take Quotas and get them to win international matches by deploying a very basic game plan orientated around a big forward pack and hope that the quota speedsters can live off scraps and score enough tries for wins. This has clearly back fired. 

I mentioned this previously that most of the players in his starting line up has been around professional rugby for the last 5 years minimum. It is not just about the number of caps but how may seasons have they been involved in bok rugby. 

Unfortunately there are very few quotas I would select on merit. For me the following are squad players and not necessary starters but will do us proud if they were to start

Beast (Never let us down)

Bongi 

Kolbe

Am - need to work on his defence

Nkosi

Mapimpi

Dyanti

Willemse

Papier

If needed but should not be in the top 30. The following should also get a chance

Jantjies (3rd Choice 10, nobody else)

Mapoe seems to play 

The following should not come near a bok a jumper

Kolisi - just hangs around the fringes and only wants to attack

Nyakane - We have a lot of first class props

Nxche - should move to hooker, weak scrummager but general play good

Noche - Worst of the bunch, offers nothing and can't take physical contact

Mahoje

Orrie - dirty player and was the reason Schekeling broke his neck. 

What is important is how weeded out the rubbish that Coetzee used and he resurrected the career of players Coetzee did not use.   That list is as long as anything the AO idiot comes up with,

The other aspect is that Coetzee and even Meyer sued BS at times and Rassie has already starting to weed out tho se BS as well.

He weeded out the rubbish? He has Kolisi, Damian, Kriel, Lood, Jantjies and plans to take Brits to the WC. 

Of course, he built the team around Kitshoff, Marx, Steph, Mostert, Pollard, Malherbe, Faf, Whiteley, Kolisi, Damian, Kriel et al. Players Coetzee and/or Meyer used extensively. The entire core of the team. You were, once again, wrong. 

You call the center combination of de Allende and Kriel ONCE over a period of two years use extensively.  Pollard never played for Coetzee.   He did nit use Le Roux for more than a year,

You yousel claimed Malherbe played under Coetzee 5 tests over two ears is NOT extensive usage.

I said he is busy rooting out the rubbish - Paige, Mohoje, Cassiem for example and the ship is going to sail for Louw as well.  Bo th coaches used Morne Steyn extensively - Erasmus would not touch him with a bargepole..

Oh my, now it only counts if they held hands? 

Damian played 13 tests for Meyer and 15 for Coetzee. A rather significant number of tests. A 28 test veteran by the time Rassie became coach.

Kriel played 11 tests for Meyer and 18 for Coetzee. Again, a significant number. A 29 test veteran.

Both had experience multiple RCs, EOYTs and even a World Cup. Of course, that doesn't mean a thing to Old Mike.

Pollard played 6 tests for Coetzee last year. Wrong again.

You claim Mohoje was rubbish, I gathered the team stats for the years 2016 and 2017 and he actually had very good tackle stats. You should revisit that. The others are hard to judge, such was the extent of the musical chair nature of Coetzee's reign and his sloppy defensive structures. 

Malherbe being used 5 times isn't extensive, but Steyn being used 6 times by Coetzee is? Shifting the goal posts, eh? Interestingly, just 4 tests is enough for an entire EOYT. That's weeks in the Bok setup. It's also enough for 2/3 of a RC. This is significant exposure to test rugby. 

Willie was a 41 test veteran by the time Rassie became coach. He had experienced 4 Rugby Championships, 3 EOYTs, 1 World Cup and 3 Spring Tours. All of this is irrelevant, apparently. Rassie clearly started with a novice. 

When all is said and done, you were wrong. You slandered any who dared disagree, but now Egg Zeus is hurling your order upon your weary face just like every other day. 

Oh the Unteromlett comes undone again.