JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
15 Mar 2015, 12:35#2
Good summary of stormers problems but as said the Chiefs played very well and smart in the second half.
15 Mar 2015, 20:51#3
What Coetzee failed to mention was that the fat and unfit Stormers ran out of puff about 3 mins into the 2nd half! The 2 starting props had to be replaced early in the 2nd half; what a joke. It's all very well being tough in the 1st half but someone should have reminded the Light Zephyrs that there's 2 lots of 40 mins and not just 1.Can't see them progressing much further unless they can last past the 1st half.
sharkbok
Captain23,285 posts
sharkbokCaptain23,285 posts
15 Mar 2015, 21:21#4
"if there's one lesson that we learned today, it's that against a quality side like the Chiefs you need to keep playing with ball in hand". (exactly).
You can't make a plan against that, Coetzee stated.
The backline players and the coaches are just stupid, making the same mistakes over and over and never learning.Their is no point beating them in the set piece, and then making poor kicks.
Anyone can see that aimless kicking to the All Blacks and their SuperXV teams is the worst possible strategy- especially when kicking from within our 22 area.
This gives them space where they can use their long passing skills to get one of their outside backs to run onto with pace- which becomes like front foot ball.
New Zealand teams can win the game with only 35% possession so it is about what possession they are given.
The Chiefs have proven that their weakest area is the set piece and their ball carrying as forwards. The game plan should make sure that their is lots of scrums, line-outs and mauls. When outside the 22, their should be lots of pick and carry to take on their forwards -whom are more geared to be mobile fetchers.
1. Any kick from within the 22 must go out. It does not even need to go really far- as on really long kicks they will take a quick line-out to avoid the set piece. Jaco Taute learned this when he played for the Boks giving away a try when all he had to do was make sure he made touch.
It is just averages- our line-outs and scrums are typically going to win more than they lose. Our forwards are going to dominate most of the collisions, so keeping the ball in hand is going to result in errors by the opposition. They should get more than they concede.
2. Never kick from first phase from anywhere on the pitch. It is too easy to defend against. If their is no options just pass to the forwards to carry the ball up.
3. Outside of our own 22 hold onto the ball and carry it up amongst the forwards. Even if their mistakes luke is a knock on's that is fine, especially when it is obvious that our scrum has the upperhand. If the opponents scrum is getting demolished, then keep having scrum after scrum until they are exhausted. It does not matter if it their feed or ours.
It is drilled into SA teams to not make mistakes in their own half because we have lots of quality goal kickers who will turn these mistakes into 3 points.South African teams only want to hold onto the ball when in the opposition half. So their opponents just take quick lineouts or counter of kicks that do not reach touch to make sure the game is played in the SA half. Our teams then resort to territory kicking often from 1st phase or when their back 3 will have it covered, which the opposition counter attack on.If our teams cant play more than 50% of the game in the opposition half we are stuffed because all we have is aimless kicking to get out of our own half.
15 Mar 2015, 21:43#5
Well those two fat props for the Stormers completely obliterated the two Chiefs fatties, so horses for courses I guess.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Mar 2015, 08:47#6
Snapster and I outlined te problem and this nutter still has no clue whatsoever.The smallest backline in the competition were out muscled just as I feared would happen. These little guys he so favours will not hold a chiefs backline. Its so glaring obvious that the mind boggles at the stupidity.
He also subbed a front row that was completely dominating far too early.
The only slack I will cut him was the bad misfortune of not having Kebble (Slack only granted if Kebble is injured - as he is far better than Vermark), Etzebeth, Elstadt and Rhodes. The abscence of these 4 meant the forward domination did not last for 80 minutes. All 4 are guys who could play for the Boks - collectively very significant to be fair to Alsitair.However this flirting with micro sized backlines has backfired before and one wonders if the lesson will ever be learnt. Thankfully Alistair is leaving but can we make something of this season. Possibly if all those forwards are fit - but I doubt that Coetzee will fix the backline.
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
16 Mar 2015, 09:01#7
Stormers missed a lot of tackle 25; Chiefs only missed 7.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Mar 2015, 09:34#8
moolaa
Props are normally replaced at round about minute 60 and that is exactly what happened in the case of Kitshoff and Koch. Your following comments is consequently not realistic and gives a totally wrong illustration of what happened:-
"What Coetzee failed to mention was that the fat and unfit Stormers ran out of puff about 3 mins into the 2nd half! The 2 starting props had to be replaced early in the 2nd half; what a joke."
Halfway through the second half does not mean the same as "early in the second half as stated by you. The Chiefs scrum was in chaos up to minute 59 and Maru was subbed at minute 42 - that is early in the second half. So I am afraid the joke is on you. Incidentally Tameifuna was on until minute 60 and never ever showed anything other than weakness in scrumming. All the Chiefs props are in fact hopelessly inadequate.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Mar 2015, 09:46#9
Exactly JW and very telling was the lack of stopping power of the microlights.
Also Elstadt and Rhodes are assassins come tackling time and add a lot of grunt up front as both can also play lock and NOT in the wee matfiled mould!!!! Carr and Kolisi are not remotely in their class.
Any backline would love to run against the wee Stormers backs.
One feels sorry for Cheslin. Insrtead of being a world beater at scrummie he is getting hammered at fullback.
De Jongh refuses to learn how to pass the ball and is still after all thereyears going t oground again and again. The offloading skilss aprt from Allende are poor. its nothing that cant be fixed but one doubts whterh the boneheads coaching the side have any clue. Quick hands can often beat an opposing defender.
A warning to the Stormers suits. You had Mallet and Rassie walk out on you. If you get in a decent coach allow them to get on with the job and no interference from folk as ignorant as you lot. You are getting a bad reputation and the walking oit of a third coach woudl really be bad. Thanks
So here we are the best rugby region in the world being ruined by hatters at the top.To think these oaks let pollard go. The mind boggles.Also given the size of Cape Town and the richness of the Western Province its a disgrace the bulle, in that dorp Pretoria, with nothing like the economic might of the Western Cape actually have a significantly bigger budget. Our problems as always are at the top. Clown are running the show.
Lastly I have no complaint re the efforts of the small Stormers backs. They get 100% for effort and courage but you dont put in a bantamweight with a heavyweight and that was the mismatch contrived by the clueless coach.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Mar 2015, 09:48#10
Beeno
What I cannot understand was why Coetzee brought in Coleman as flyhalf - he was the one who botched relieving kicks from inside the Stormers 22 time and time again - allowing the Chiefs backline players to operate in space. Coleman is a Vodacom Cup level player - not even a CC level player.
Then there was the other three midgets - De Jongh, Leyds and Kolbe as well. Leyds could perhaps be used as full back, Kolbe could possibly become a scrummie - but he has missed tackles or got bumped off too easily by bigger and more physical players this past week . De Jongh has been a joke in the Stormers side for years. He has the attacking ability of a powder puff and can carry the ball well if put into space by other players - if not put into space he becomes a liability for handing over possession, being tackled back thus putting the Stormers under pressure and also giving away penalties. No real thrust at all - just physically-deficient.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Mar 2015, 11:02#12
Dont be too sure JW. If we had a hard tackling backline we would have won.
You only won becasue of a Stormers backline built up of microlights.
Jake knew this. When he won the RWC in 2007 he had the following backline:
Percy Montgomery, JP Pietersen, Jaque Fourie, Frans Steyn, Bryan Habana, Butch James, Fourie du Preez,
Not a player under 90 kg and JP, Jaque, Frans all 100 kg plus with Butch close to 100 kg etc.
We have had this nutter completely ignoring Howard for exammple 100 kg. He also shunned van der heever who was close to 100 kg. In Kotze and Huw Jones he has bigger players. Taute is 100 kg but i am not sure he is fit.
The trouble is there are too manny small guys only Allende and Van Wyk are of a reasonable size. The rest are too small and colectively it spells disaster.
The other factor is forard domiannce. One ca get away witha lot if the apck is domiant as we saw in the first half. However the absence of the 4 players mentioned really didnt help. I think that their presecence also would have tipped the balance.Some thinks were betbond Coetzee's control - injuries but there were bad seelctions where after all ths itime he should knw better. Its a bit like the years it took him to real ise defence only cant work.
16 Mar 2015, 11:41#13
Actually Mike, the joke is on the Stormers and their fans, not me! Fat and unfit like I said. The Mighty Chiefs easily outlasted them and as a consequence the Zephyrs missed heaps of tackles as JW has testified.What happened to de Allende in the 2nd half? Disappeared off the radar like his teammates as he couldn't hack the pace. I just hope he gets in the Bok team for the RWC!!
