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Super Sub Steyn being primed for the British and Irish Lions

Started by Chippo50 REPLIES1,164 VIEWS· 14 Apr 2020, 13:58
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CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
14 Apr 2020, 13:58
#1
14 Apr 2020, 13:58#1

The groundwork is now in place: Frans Steyn is increasingly likely to be a Springbok “supersub”, or perhaps even a bit more than that, when they lock horns with the British and Irish Lions in 2021.


This follows the weekend confirmation - it had been less than a secret for a while - that he has put pen to paper in a two-year deal with the Cheetahs, beginning on 1 July.

On the slightly negative side, the much-travelled figure will be 34 by the time the blue-chip three-Test series comes around ... an advanced rugby age, though very far from unprecedented, either.

Counter-balancing that drawback, however, will be the fact that Steyn, by then, should have seen plenty of service back on the generally hard, fast surfaces of South Africa after several years in the chillier (and arguably less conditioning-conscious) rugby climes of France either with Racing Metro or, more recently, Montpellier.

That will be important as the hefty utility back, who stands 1.91m and tips the scales at well over 110kg, has not always been renowned for very finest of body shape in his decorated career.

But being based in Bloemfontein will also mean that Steyn gets to play much of the time at demanding high altitude; the city has an elevation of around 1,400m which is not far off the 1,750m of, for example, Johannesburg.

That is a relevant consideration, as the World Cup-holding Boks will tackle the Lions in those conditions twice over the three epic clashes, hoping to bust the tourists’ lungs, as it were, at FNB Stadium (first Test) and Ellis Park (last).

The single-minded but also popular-among-teammates player would bring gigantic experience to the Bok squad against the Lions, and in the interim period at international level, with his 67-cap career stretching back to late 2006.

He is also set, it seems, to earn the rare honour of a repeat series against those prestigious foes, as he played a significant part in the 2-1 SA triumph on the last occasion, against Paul O’Connell’s red-jerseyed outfit, in 2009.

Steyn was the fullback in the decisive first two Tests at Kings Park and Loftus, and then played a role as midfielder off the bench in the dead-rubber final meeting at Ellis Park, where then-coach Peter de Villiers fielded an “experimental” starting XV to preserve some of his premier troops for the additional demands of the Tri-Nations not long afterwards - which the Boks duly also won.

He was a valued member of Rassie Erasmus’s now famous group of “bomb squad” reserves when the Webb Ellis Cup was clinched in Japan late last year, and his suitability to feasibly play anywhere between flyhalf, either centre berth or the last line of defence meant the mastermind was able to feel comfortable enough whenever he opted for a six-two split between forwards and backs.

Steyn’s ability to play virtually anywhere in the back division will keep him fairly central, you would think, in ongoing Bok plans under new head coach Jacques Nienaber but with Erasmus hovering nearby as director of rugby.

There is also the knowledge that the man from Aliwal North can bang you over a pressure penalty from well within your own half to tilt a tense game at the death: bear in mind that namesake Morne Steyn did so from around 50 metres to seal the 2009 Lions series in the dramatic second Test in Pretoria.

Frans Steyn will join a very different Cheetahs set-up, of course, to the one he would have been part of had he stayed in Bloemfontein back in 2005, instead of shifting straight from school as a still-teenager to the Sharks, who he first debuted for at Currie Cup level in 2006.

The only thing the Free State outfit of then and now will have in common, as Steyn joins the fold, is being Currie Cup holders: they won it both in 2005 and 2006 (the latter shared with Blue Bulls) as well as the most recent tournament of 2019.

But the Cheetahs had also joined the then-Super 14 in 2006, Steyn’s first year in Durban, following the abandonment of the Cats franchise - a less than ideal alliance between the Gauteng-based Lions and Free State - whereas they are now part of the northern hemisphere’s PRO14 competition.

Popular Bloemfontein rugby personnel of the mid-2000s had included Os du Randt, Ollie le Roux, CJ van der Linde, Meyer Bosman, Willem de Waal and Kabamba Floors.

While he left the central city before being capped at first-class level there, he had represented the Free State Craven Week side, and been part of the first team at prestigious Grey College at the same time as the likes of Deon Stegmann, Heinrich Brussow and Hercu Liebenberg, younger brother of Bok hooker Tiaan.

So the Free State culture is already pretty well ingrained in Frans Steyn …

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
14 Apr 2020, 14:14
#2
14 Apr 2020, 14:14#2
He'll be good to have in the squad, I hope he doesn't break down in the time between. Will he become the first player to play against two Lions tours? Or, hopefully, win two Lions tours.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2020, 14:45
#3
14 Apr 2020, 14:45#3

That would be a Meyer type selection - picking an unplayable player will be case if Steyn is selected,   Remember Steyn is NO center - he started in the WC 2019 at enter against the two weakest teams in the pool.   In important games he was used sparingly as bench player at fukl back.   

So what would be his role against the UK&I Lions?   There will be no "soft" games against the Lions and it would really be stupid to use a slow and normally overweight player in that situation.     

CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
14 Apr 2020, 15:09
#4
14 Apr 2020, 15:09#4

what do you mean Mike?

Frans Steyn is one of our all time greats!

Im sure you're confusing him with Morne.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2020, 15:44
#5
14 Apr 2020, 15:44#5

LOL - but his rating as a great is hugely over-rated.   He was an extremely promising youngster and was a very good player initially,   However by 2011 playing for Racing he was fairy useless because of chronic overweight,   When he came back to SA he was a 118 kg mess,

He played 5 tests in 2012 - making an unholy m ess of most of them,  Since then he was in the Springbok bench under Coetzee.  After that  he was the bench cover in major tests in the WC, but sparsely used and played in 2 as starting center against the weakest teams in the 2019 WC, 

He was seriously deficient at center and one of the best coaches in World Rugby at present said in 2013 that he was NO center.

Does not sound like a Springbok GREAT to me at all,   LOL       

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2020, 15:44
#6
14 Apr 2020, 15:44#6

Duplcation

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2020, 15:44
#7
14 Apr 2020, 15:44#7

Dupli cation

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
14 Apr 2020, 15:49
#8
14 Apr 2020, 15:49#8
By the time the Lions get here Frans will be in an old age home failing which he will have played enough games for the Cheetahs to have confirmed to Rassie and co just how past it and useless he is these days There is no ways Frans will be in the match 23 against the Lions as he will have long been sorely exposed playing domestic rugby by then The guy can’t move anymore, speed and agility is long a thing of the past for the once great player
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
14 Apr 2020, 16:11
#9
14 Apr 2020, 16:11#9

Well, it's unlikely that Jose will select the mighty Andre, so we need at least one inside centre in the squad. Frans did save Dud1's blushes in the World Cup final, as the latter found the lights of the biggest stage in world rugby too bright. Jose is well known to be rather conservative in his approach. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
14 Apr 2020, 16:45
#10
14 Apr 2020, 16:45#10
Frans was fucking useless in the WC de Allende was huge in the final as he was all WC, he won us the semi with his power try Of course Rassie will pick the best 12 in the game when we resume - de Allende will be one of the first names on the sheet along with PSDT
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
14 Apr 2020, 17:17
#11
14 Apr 2020, 17:17#11

Dud1 was a liability. Couldn't read play, couldn't link up, couldn't tackle. Had England a better platform we'd have lost that hake and Dud1 would have been even more exposed. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2020, 17:27
#12
14 Apr 2020, 17:27#12

Idiot Speak is the forte of AO.   Keep it up - it really is funny.   LMAO 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Apr 2020, 17:29
#13
14 Apr 2020, 17:29#13

No doubt Frans will be given a free hand to choose his own bomb squad, although he might be needed on the wing in the starting 15. Some may think he has lost too much  pace....but Frans’ mind is faster than May’s feet. IAS!

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
14 Apr 2020, 17:35
#14
14 Apr 2020, 17:35#14
Listening to rugby players on podcasts you realise that listed weights are total shite, they're outdated by broadcasters and fans really have no idea. Also I don't think there was anything released to the public that said Frans returned from France at 118kg. 
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
14 Apr 2020, 17:43
#15
14 Apr 2020, 17:43#15

Listed weights differ between sources. The only weigh ins I take seriously are those registered by their respective teams. Those are seldom disclosed. Frans hadn't weighed over a 110kg for many years now. Even Mermoz, who weighed heavier than Fans at his peak weight in 2009, is under 10 0kg now. Some casuals are slower on the uptake than others. That means Lügnerin is just a tick slower than Saffy. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2020, 18:43
#16
14 Apr 2020, 18:43#16

Shezza

The 118 kilo story came from Plumtree in early 2013 and was widely published in the media at the time.  Before Steyn played in the five tests in 2012 he played two games for the Sharks and Plumtree knew exactly what Steyn's main problem was from the day he set foot in SA from France,   France was grossly overweight when he played for the Springboks and that remained his problem ever since,   Maybe Erasmus got his weight a bit down - something Plumtree tried and failed and ignored by White and Gold, 

The following is an extract from the media story on Steyn:-

"Plumtree acknowledged that it is taking Steyn longer than envisaged to get back into Super Rugby after his time in French Top 14. “He has some work to do,” Plumtree said. “It was only two months ago that he was 118kg"

Taking onto account his height his ideal playing weight should have been 105 to 107 kgs - anything above 110 would be considered as overweight,           

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Apr 2020, 19:18
#17
14 Apr 2020, 19:18#17

When was that comment made?

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
14 Apr 2020, 19:20
#18
14 Apr 2020, 19:20#18

Plumtree? The failure of the Sharks. He took the best team in SA and turned them into flubs in mere months! Plumtree was hopeless. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2020, 22:36
#19
14 Apr 2020, 22:36#19

Sure - the coach who Smit later said he made a huge mistake by forcing him to leave.  Now an Assistant coach of the AB's and they now more about rugby than morons like you would ever know,   A better coach than White,  Meyer and Coetzee combined could  ever be, LOL - Idiocy is extremely funny, LMAO    

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
14 Apr 2020, 22:49
#20
14 Apr 2020, 22:49#20
Aug speaking through his arse again If de Allende was that crap then why did he make the WC side of the tournament and have Greenwood saying you stop de Allende you stop the Boks You are profoundly stupid and I mean that sincerely Frans Steyn did not do a single thing of note in the entire WC, and was sorely exposed against the Argies prior to the WC Utterly useless these days - the man could not smell the Montpellier starting side for good reason. Old and slow these days, a has been of note
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Apr 2020, 23:24
#21
14 Apr 2020, 23:24#21

Greenwood said that because he was a centre, he saw the WC through a centre’s eyes. The stats show Dud was stopped without beating a tackle most of the time. He was 7th in clean breaks among the Boks.....but first in runs made.

Not even a blunt instrument

CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
14 Apr 2020, 23:43
#22
14 Apr 2020, 23:43#22

Plumtree never said that.

Its all shit fake news.

I mean honestly. How gullible and dumb are some of you.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2020, 00:03
#23
15 Apr 2020, 00:03#23
Oh what utter crap Moz, de Allende was huge with ball in hand - he carried defenders at will like he always does. You don’t get it at all. He was not there to beat defenders which hardly happens anyway unless by chance a centre finds himself in open play DA is freakishly strong - his direct route through the Ford channel forced Eddie into an early change. DA takes contact and rides defenders creating forward momentum and drawing defenders in. You don’t stop him alone, he needs to be gang tackled to be contained All you see is stats saying no defenders beaten - so short sighted Greenwood says that because he knows what DA is doing and what momentum he gives the Boks. You stop DA you stop the Boks - it’s so true. DA in traffic, Vermeulen on the charge, with Faf and PSDT harassing defensively were the cornerstones of our victory and campaign
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Apr 2020, 00:43
#24
15 Apr 2020, 00:43#24
Eddie made a huge mistake playing Ford ....a Farrell/ Tuilagi 10/12 axis would have  blotted out the Tractor. No hands, no step, no acceleration....poor defensive judgement, that’s our Dud.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
15 Apr 2020, 00:49
#25
15 Apr 2020, 00:49#25
Can't fault De Allende's defence in the RWC, it's the area he performed well in finally. 
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
15 Apr 2020, 05:41
#26
15 Apr 2020, 05:41#26

Damian was below average in every World Cup game. In fact, before the final, where the scrum took England out of the game, the Boks were absolutely horrendous ball in hand in general. This team can't break good teams down, not unless they are physically oppressive, but even against the minnows, there were very long stretches where the Boks looked toothless. Putting the ball in the hands of dead-end below standard player's hands was the problem. Damian is technically the worst 12 I have ever seen. None of the flaws we saw in 2012 onwards into 2015 into the Coetzee years and under Rassie have ever been corrected. His best season for attack was under Coetzee in 2017. It's not even close, even Meyer got more out of him in 2015 (but he has to adapt familiar plays and patterns from the Stormers to do it. Meyer remains the only coach that took familiar material to a player he was going to work around to give them a greater chance to succeed, essentially only asking them to do what they were successful in doing for their own unions. This didn't work so he started using him in the seams as a blunt runner, this defined how he was to be used for the remainder of his career). 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2020, 08:30
#27
15 Apr 2020, 08:30#27

The press issue came from a discussion by Plumtree with the press on the changes to the Sharks team  held on 19 March 2013.  The excerpt I quoted was from a far more lenient than the rest published in other media reports  stemming from  the same briefing - which included  comment that Fat Fransie was NO center and he (Plumtree)  did not know what to use him for.   Anyway after that briefing Steyn was put on the bench and only was in the starting line-up once at center in 2013 because of injury to Jordaan - in which game Fatso suffered a combustion injury to his leg.  

Nothing could be done with Steyn - his gross overweight remained a problem in 2014 and 2015,  He then lost his contract with SARU and was contracted by Montpellier when White became their coach in 2016.   While White coached Montpellier Steyn was used consistently at center and flyhalf - after White left Montpellier the new coach moved him the fullback - where he played since then,   Since 2012  Steyn was never in the starting line-up for the Springboks team other than  in two games in 2019  against the two weakest teams in the pool stages of the WC.  

                       

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2020, 08:34
#28
15 Apr 2020, 08:34#28

Keep it up AO and Mozart - your idiocy remains highly entertaining, LMAO.    By the way the combination of Farrell and Tuilagi did not function better in the WC final after the change was  made with Farrell and Tuilagi brought in as 10 and 12 with Slade - another "class act" identified by Mozart brought in at 13.  Really funny - the changed team backline could not prevent the two great tries by the Springboks and was part of the defensive problem in those two cases.            

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2020, 10:35
#29
15 Apr 2020, 10:35#29
Bullshit DA has great hands, definitely has a step and is easily the best 12 in the game right now. You don’t become the best 12 in the game being a crap player. Schalk Brits said he is the most gifted player he has played with, but sticks to the game plan. About sums DA up - vital to our cause The best 12 in the game
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
15 Apr 2020, 13:48
#30
15 Apr 2020, 13:48#30

Damian has a step? I'm literally laughing! I can't believe what I am hearing. This might be on the level of Lambie!! Such errant mythery is afoot. As for the great hands? No, just no. He ranks with Lood and Steph as some of the worst handlers and passers in the squad! Hilarious. But then, you once punted Lood as having great and quick hands after the Welsh test of 2015, right after his hands of stone botched two key try scoring opportunities! Even now, you miss those. Now, I have posted Damian's entire 2018 season, go find me that elusive step.

Damian is the least talented Bok 12 I have ever seen. Can't read play at all, never learns from experience, has poor skills, can't tackle, has poor positional sense, has no sense for running lines and spacial awareness. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2020, 15:26
#31
15 Apr 2020, 15:26#31
Listen here you fucking pathetic lying twat but more than anything this link shows how rugby ignorant you are, you waste of fucking space. One only needs to look at the second bit of footage below to see the impressive DA stepping to his hearts content you useless idiot. Not to mention the outside break, numerous stepping occasions and great offloads but according to you he is crap and can’t STEP!! You are a liar and more than anything - a pathetic ignoramus You have yet again been exposed https://youtu.be/dqQRd751BIc
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
15 Apr 2020, 16:34
#32
15 Apr 2020, 16:34#32

Damian's little hop before contact is not a step. It's also a total waste of time. I half feel sorry for you, even more knowing that you probably say these things in real life! 

PS - "exposed again"... ! You make me laugh Saffy. I expose his entire test career and you tell me I have been exposed!


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2020, 18:27
#33
15 Apr 2020, 18:27#33
You are a pathetic liar who has been exposed with evidence of a perfect step by a player you assert can’t step - now fuck off you bore me I can’t be asked responding to liars who know fuck all about the game
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
15 Apr 2020, 18:34
#34
15 Apr 2020, 18:34#34

Getting a little hot under the bonnet aren't we? How can I be angry, I think it's adorable when a kitten swats this way and that with it's little paddy wackers. Do go on. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2020, 19:37
#35
15 Apr 2020, 19:37#35
Pathetic liar
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Apr 2020, 20:47
#36
15 Apr 2020, 20:47#36

Admit it Dave....a hop is not a step....a step is what Kolbe does.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2020, 20:48
#37
15 Apr 2020, 20:48#37
Bullshit it’s a step - a perfect step that beats defenders If you can’t see a step that is just pathetic bias
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2020, 20:57
#38
15 Apr 2020, 20:57#38
Not to mention all the other examples of stepping in that footage on at least 5 occasions You lot are seriously pathetic Video evidence of DA stepping but even that is not good enough to overcome your pathetic and childish bias DA can step and that’s a FACT
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2020, 21:17
#39
15 Apr 2020, 21:17#39

The step issue should never have been raised by AO since he ignore facts.  The most embarrassing for him was that TWICE stepping by De Allende when he caused Fat Fransie to end up with his bum on the grass when going in to tackle De Allende.  Don't feel anything but sympathy for the poor chap, but tempered by the fact that he brought on himself that ididocy,      

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2020, 21:34
#40
15 Apr 2020, 21:34#40
It’s not a step it’s a hop, I kid you not!!! I give up - as I said before, what’s the point of debating rugby when you provide video evidence of a player stepping but......... It’s a waste of fucking time despite having plenty of time on ones hands
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