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FORUM / RUGBY /  SXV 2019 - Top South African Ball Carriers

SXV 2019 - Top South African Ball Carriers

Started by Augenöffner47 REPLIES2,166 VIEWS· 09 Jul 2019, 07:07
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AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
09 Jul 2019, 07:07
#1
09 Jul 2019, 07:07#1
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Jul 2019, 16:23
#2
11 Jul 2019, 16:23#2
Stephanie .....10 defenders beaten in 101 runs..... exceeded only by Orie and Kitshoff for sheer toothlessness on the run. But the myth that he is a good ball carrier wont die.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jul 2019, 18:33
#3
11 Jul 2019, 18:33#3

This is another BS story from RPI copied by the idiot and seconded by Mozart.  Look at the number of games played to start with.   Esterhuizen played two more games  than De Allende and he beat 1 defender more than De Allende  and made 12  more meters - ie he made the normal clueless deduction.   

The Du Toit mania is going on - but there is an obvious reason for that, namely petty hatred  by the two most clueless site members.       

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jul 2019, 18:33
#4
11 Jul 2019, 18:33#4

This is another BS story from RPI copied by the idiot and seconded by Mozart.  Look at the number of games played to start with.   Esterhuizen played two more games  than De Allende and he beat 1 defender more than De Allende  and made 12  more meters - ie he made the normal clueless deduction.   

The Du Toit mania is going on - but there is an obvious reason for that, namely petty hatred  by the two most clueless site members.       

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Jul 2019, 20:36
#5
11 Jul 2019, 20:36#5
The numbers can't lie....Stephanie is toothless.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jul 2019, 20:59
#6
11 Jul 2019, 20:59#6

And so was a lot of player you always supported for selection.   That is your impression based on prejudice and disregard of facts.   Mine is based on what actually happened on the field of play.  Du Toit is a class act .   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Jul 2019, 22:17
#7
11 Jul 2019, 22:17#7
Sure and he makes 1.7 metres a carry (and even those numbers are artificially high because of his play on the wing).......and he beats a defender every 10 carries. A class act, the class of toothless runners!
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
12 Jul 2019, 02:03
#8
12 Jul 2019, 02:03#8

Copied from RugbyPass? Doesn't the format look at least a little familiar to you? 

Here's a chart ranking these players by average carry. 



sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,234 posts
12 Jul 2019, 02:07
#9
12 Jul 2019, 02:07#9
Bosch had the highest average carry metres. His metres run is also high considering his match time might have only been 50% the whole season.
He would be good cover as a utility back in the world cup squad.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
12 Jul 2019, 02:15
#10
12 Jul 2019, 02:15#10

Agreed. Of all the options at 15, he is our most creative spark. Great vision. Can do a job at 10. Nice to see the three wings coming into form, particularly Dyantyi, who looked dead and buried earlier in the season. 

Note Duane and Dan.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Jul 2019, 03:33
#11
12 Jul 2019, 03:33#11
Thanks Augie....that's the best view. Vermeulen the most productive forward runner, bar Kwagga who plies his trade in open field and the energetic Coetzee. And no South African made more steals.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
12 Jul 2019, 05:02
#12
12 Jul 2019, 05:02#12

Correct, Duane was our biggest breakdown threat. The top 10 pilfers this season: 

  1. A Savea  13  Hurricanes
  2. D Vermeulen  8  Bulls
  3. A Creevy  7  Jaguares
  4. M Marx  7  Lions
  5. L Boshier  6  Chiefs
  6. K Smith  6  Lions
  7. S Cane  5  Chiefs
  8. M Todd  5  Crusaders
  9. L Am  4  Sharks
  10. J Coetzee  4  Stormers

I should add that Steph's metres per carry last year, for the Boks, was 1.6. So his 1.7 in this year's SXV is about what he usually produces. Last year he passed 24% of the ball he had. We can begin to see why the Stormer's phase play is so static. Ball carrying forwards who are accurate around the field, but totally lacking in dynamism and backs that lack that direct force to put them on the front foot. The Stormer's dismal attacking movement mirrored that of the Boks last year. I think we can see from the information in this thread who we should be building the team around. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Jul 2019, 10:59
#13
12 Jul 2019, 10:59#13

The apostle of RPI is using all his deficient knowledge to support BS - 8 turnovers in 15 games means circa 1 per game, plus perhaps 2 in a few games,   That is the kind of norm for success thei idiot thrives on.  No comprehensive idea about what rugby actually entails.   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Jul 2019, 14:25
#14
12 Jul 2019, 14:25#14
Agreed Augie, the stats aren't always definitive.....but in this case it's like shining a laser on a bug, everything is revealed. Du Toit gets the ball all the time, but passes and offloads rarely and poorly. Which means that the team is stuck with his ball carrying which is toothless. No acceleration, guile, strength or pace. A total nothing burger sucking the energy out of the team. And yet, incredibly the media thinks he is a great ball carrier. Stupid doesn't begin to describe it.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Jul 2019, 16:42
#15
12 Jul 2019, 16:42#15

Nothing  new from AO and Mozart.  The latter has had a six-year campaign against Du Tpit and normally does not want to see anything positive as to the contributions  to the game  by Du Toit.  His contributions is so prejudiced - his garbled versions are repetitive and boring as well as a useless lot of BS,   AO has no idea about rugby and he is a copy of Mozart.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Jul 2019, 17:03
#16
12 Jul 2019, 17:03#16
'Du Tpit'...yep that describes it perfectly....he 'Tpits' for 1.6 metres a carry while hogging the ball.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
12 Jul 2019, 17:05
#17
12 Jul 2019, 17:05#17

2018 to 2019 is 6 years? I thought we were 1 hour ahead of SA, not 5 years behind. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Jul 2019, 17:39
#18
12 Jul 2019, 17:39#18

Mozart has been carrying on about Du Toit since 2013 and the same goes for other players as well. He writes about ball carries and then forgot how his erstwhile hero Alberts made a few carries  normally about four or five per game gaining on average 1,8 meter per carry  in Super rugby.  That he defended like his life depended on it.

Fact is if one wants to know useless players way passed their sell-by date Mozart supported in the past the list is endless,   A typical example is the Amla story in the CWC    The loony hero-worshipped Amla in the recent RWC as an example and got caught out for being stupid beyond belief.   

    

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
12 Jul 2019, 18:23
#19
12 Jul 2019, 18:23#19

I don't follow cricket. Yet I have no doubt you are shown up in the cricket section as badly as you are in the rugby.

Alberts put the Boks on the front foot and soaked up defenders. Was an excellent decoy too, which afforded Morné the opportunity to use his accurate long pass to set runners free past the egde of the defense. Steph can't contribute in this way. When Steph gets the ball, the defence know it's going nowhere. When he was the distributor in the pod it was very telegraphed. The defence held for a split second and then broke upon the attackers lying underneath the pod. Hence we got no momentum and Faf had to kick. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Jul 2019, 18:36
#20
12 Jul 2019, 18:36#20

The only two imbeciles who think I have been shown up badly anywhere  are the min village idiot (AO) and his driveling supporter.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
12 Jul 2019, 18:46
#21
12 Jul 2019, 18:46#21

A s the old saying goes, if the dunce cap fits...

On another note, how do you suppose we correct José Erasmus' jogging?

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
16 Jul 2021, 19:47
#22
16 Jul 2021, 19:47#22

Ah yes, the great 2019 season of the Swan Princess 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Jul 2021, 21:29
#23
16 Jul 2021, 21:29#23

Mabe, because you stare yourself blind at some of the stats, you miss seeing the game in context.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
16 Jul 2021, 21:44
#24
16 Jul 2021, 21:44#24

Actually, got me, it's the opposite way around: I start and end with film. That puts stats in context, and corrects errors. I have challenged and refuted stats before. The blind must be those who can't tell me why they believe what they do. It's always a "gut feel", or more laughably still, the "eye test" without seeing anything. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Jul 2021, 02:07
#25
17 Jul 2021, 02:07#25

The table shows what any educated rugby fan should see….Dud Toit is a totally mediocre ball carrier. And an even worse passer/offloader…..the gum in the attacking works

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
17 Jul 2021, 08:42
#26
17 Jul 2021, 08:42#26

Best in the world, but where is the production? Wasn't even in the top 30 for steals that season, despite being lauded for his breakdown presence. Didn't rank high for tackle success. It really isn't surprising that he was ranked the 17th best flank. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jul 2021, 10:43
#27
17 Jul 2021, 10:43#27

Where yopu cannpot see it because you nhave no idea about player activities in games that is dealt with by Elite programs..     You rely on nothing at all about player activities and what they do is totally ignored or belittled by you.   

Who do you think Erasmus - a rugby genius - rate De Allende and Du Toit highly and  ignore for instance Esterhuizen?   Because he has a full analysis of what happen in games that you or your stats quote does not have.          

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
17 Jul 2021, 11:06
#28
17 Jul 2021, 11:06#28

some more context to the stats...gps telemetry, etc

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
17 Jul 2021, 12:12
#29
17 Jul 2021, 12:12#29

Rassie is a subpar analyst. Look at his substitutes to botch the Home All Black test. Miraculously, the media let him off the hook. Which faces let him down? The same players we bring to topic here time and again. Esterhuizen outperformed Damian easily. It's not even close. The footage of both player's entire 2018 test season contributions are still online for all to see. Go prove me wrong. Cute

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
17 Jul 2021, 16:06
#30
17 Jul 2021, 16:06#30

err, no.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
17 Jul 2021, 19:23
#31
17 Jul 2021, 19:23#31

Err, yes. Ende. Aus und vorbei. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Jul 2021, 01:37
#32
18 Jul 2021, 01:37#32

How I ask with tears in my eyes can a guy who averages 1.7 yards a carry and beats a tackle once every 10 runs be a  great ball carrier. Seriously can one of you Dud Toit worshipers explain that to me….the floor is your’s.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
18 Jul 2021, 01:50
#33
18 Jul 2021, 01:50#33

I have challenged them, pressing for details and all I get are insults and paraphrasings from "them" and "they" who are "experts" and "know everyhing". They don't know why they believe what they do, but sure feel strongly about this something they don't know. 

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
18 Jul 2021, 02:41
#34
18 Jul 2021, 02:41#34
Recalling that Moz often referred to PSDT as long necked with thin ankles I was struck by the parallels of a book I was reading my grandson” “Giraffes Can’t Dance”. It starts out: “Gerald was a tall giraffe whose neck was long & slim. But his knees were awfully crooked & his legs were rather thin. He was very good at standing still & munching shoots off trees. But when he tried to run around he buckled at the knees”. Lol
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Jul 2021, 05:24
#35
18 Jul 2021, 05:24#35

Brilliant JW….one might add:

And when Gerald on rare occasion was somewhat inclined to leap

The opposition could be certain the ball was their’s  to keep.

…..

That could be a sequel ‘ Giraffes Can’t Jump’

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Jul 2021, 10:48
#36
18 Jul 2021, 10:48#36

Lol...actual mirth.


Auge, I never claimed to be an expert....I merely stated that weak teams with poor. coaches doesn't win trophies  when there are a bunch of passengers in the side...and then it's not your everyday, run of the mill trophies,  it's the Rugby World Cup and the Rugby Championship...and World Rugby Player of the Year, etc...

Somewhere in all your stats, something is missing. You can't explain it all away with "poorest Wallaby side in years" and "injury ridden Welsh side". 

It doesn't work like that. Somewhere in all your complaints,  must be some room for praise. The facts show that we are world champions...we won the bloody RWC and you're complaining as if we losr to Japan!

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
18 Jul 2021, 14:22
#37
18 Jul 2021, 14:22#37
Haha, we’ll done Moz. DB, you will be pleased to know the end of the story: “Then one by one, each animal who’d been there at the dance arrived while Gerald boogied on and watched him, quite entranced. They shouted, “It’s a miracle! We must be in a dream. Gerald’s the best dancer that we’ve ever seen” Sadly, even if PSDT could dance & prance he couldn’t make the All Black’s 23??
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
18 Jul 2021, 14:52
#38
18 Jul 2021, 14:52#38

Praise? Yes. Beast, Eben, Pollard, Willie, Am, Thor, Louw et al.

Herr Draht, here's the thing. The Boks did not play great rugby at the World Cup. They were very patchy in the RC. Without Esterhuizen, Kuridrani runs riot and even the worst Wallaby side in 45 years (taken as a fact in Australia by their own rugby community) is a lot more dangerous. You want to believe that this was the best achievement, or near about, in Bok history. Really, it isn't. Every time I critique this team, we are dragged back to 2015 for comparison. It's not even close. Australia were by far the best attacking side in world rugby, Wales the best defensive side and with physicality to match us. Had Damian not flubbed the Aussie test (not at home, but in Australia), we'd still have won. New Zealand were better in 2015, and we didn't have the luck of playing them in the group stages! A lot of things went right for the 2019 Boks. It had to. Then their best matchup in the final, where Beast had a blinder. 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Jul 2021, 15:01
#39
18 Jul 2021, 15:01#39

"You want to believe that this was the best achievement, or near about, in Bok history. Really, it isn't. "

Don't put words in my mouth...I never said anything close to this. Never.

"Praise? Yes. Beast, Eben, Pollard, Willie, Am, Thor, Louw et al."

That's 7 players...TEAMS win world cups...good teams with a bit of luck...not weak teams full of passengers. 

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
18 Jul 2021, 15:15
#40
18 Jul 2021, 15:15#40

Steph, Damian, Kolisi did not improve the team. They are not world class players. They do not belong at test level, even Super rugby level is a level too high. There is no production, there is nothing they did to improve the team. That's the beginning and end of the matter. As for coaching? Josè dug deep into his bag of tricks in 2018 and was exposed. He became more and more conservative on his foundation of kicking and defence.

Not every player in a world cup winning team is world class. There's a core that needs to be world class, and that core carried the chaff. You give credit where it isn't due, you follow the media tripe that denies another man his dues and even goes so far as damage his potential earnings. I cannot and will not ever tolerate that. The mediocre will be exposed, the lies and idiocy will be exposed.

Interesting to note on tour in 2018, when Damian was subbed by Esterhuizen, Jean said, "No we should see some ball getting out into the open spaces". Is he an idiot too? He played with Damian. Not everyone in the sporting world says what they really think. Saffers are very eager to receive a pat on the head, and the opposition know this. 

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