I would make the following changes to the team to face the Scots:
15) Taute - He is a fullback not a centre
14) JP
13) De Jongh - Give him a chance
12) JDV
11) Rhule - Give this boy a chance
10) Lambie
9) Hougaard
8) Vermeulen
7) Alberts
6) Louw
5) Flip
4) Etzebeth
3) Jannie
2) Strauss
1) Heinke vd Merwe - Let Beast rest and Heinke is one of the best scrummages in world rugby.
16) CJ
17) Cilliers
18) Brits
19) Kruger
20) Coetzee
21) Pienaar
22) Jantjies
23) Mvovo
Wait BB if you want to be give a fair chance you cannot pick Lambie again. Heyneke said in this tour he is looking at the extra flyhalf to take him into the future. He already knows Goosen is the main Candidate, He is looking at the "extra" flyhlaf. Therefore in order for him to be fair towards the players and in his judgement he has to pick on of the other Flyhlafs for Scotland with at least the other one given opportunity in the second half. Therfore Lambie should not even be on the bench for the scots. Then he can make his pick and play the best one against england etc. If he does not do that he is not keeping to his word to look at his long term prospects.
Lambie is now the incumbent. He is the 1st choice with Goosen injured. So this tour is about proving that he is the 2nd choice(backup/bench flyhalf) to Goosen. Earl Jantkies is the current 4th choice until someone better replaces him. He is not really being considered as the potential flyhalf. Morne Steyn is on the bench because he was the 1st choice for a few years, and if he regains his top form is a decent option of the bench. Super Rugby and Curry Cup has proved this, and it is just about Lambie recreating this at test level.
That is what you believe yes. However that was not the message that Heyneke sent out at the beginning of the series. He needs to stick with what he said at the beginning of the series otherwise his players will lose belief in him. He Said he will give everyone a fair chance to prove themselves, that includes Jantjies and Steyn. He has to do that.
@ek do you really think the players has any belief in him at the moment ???? looking at the how the players respond to this over coaching style ext.....
lambie needs time to grow in the jumper chopping and changing now will only create doubt and wont allow lambie that stabilty that he needs. he has a lot less game time that the rest so a change now will be in my view just plain stupid. taute shoule really have a go at 15 while de jongh should get a start. i do agree that rhule or mvovo should get a start in place of hougaard as well. he has a bit of soul searching to do in view
the scots must really be licking there lips after the boks stutterd against the woefully under strength irish team
The facts are simple on the evidence before us Lambie has the edge and should continue against Scotland. Maybe put Jantjes on the bench.
I quite like the look of your side Bokbe. One thing definitely - do not play Rhule in the wet!! He was hopeless agains the queens in the rain. That lock combo deserves a shot although Juandre did reasonably well against Ireland and had a good work rate. However Flip is the sort of lock we need against England and Meyer must play Flip against Scotland.
Another possibility is playing Marcell at 8 and moving Vermulen to 7 if you want to play a more running game
I think the Scots pack gave the wee abs a torrid time and so we will have a forward battle on our hands. It would be nice to have a backline that functions to help put them away.
The wee abs won though the backline and their abilty to pass the ball quickly and let the ball do the work. They used blockers in the backline to help them score as well. Unfortunatley the scots backs defence was also weak on the day and undid all the good work of their forwards.
Heineke was up to his old tricks scrumming upwards etc and got pinged - fortunately with no damage done. Hope he can do it. CJ was okay in the scrums but needs to up his workrate. Unfortunately he is not fit enough to do that - how silly for a professional sportsman to not ensure that he keeps himself fully fit.
Muncher, It's about integrity and doing what you said you will. Whatever the public says or Claims we have no idea how much belief the players have in the coach. But if he does not do what he priomised he is damaging that belief. Any Decent leader/or parent for that matter will tell you the same thing.
Ek- Playing 3 different flyhalfs in 3 consecutive games is unlikely, and I doubt that Meyer ever intended his comments to be a statement of that.
Meyer said that he wanted to establish a 2nd choice to Goosen, not give 3 flyhalfs an equal chance to prove that.
The very choice of selecting Lambie to start is an indication that Lambie has the inside lane to prove that.
Only injury or lack of form will open up the chance.
The fact that Earl Jantjies was dropped from the squad shows that he is not seriously being considered and is only a player that will get game time following injuries to the top 2 or 3 flyhalfs
OK fair yes Lambie should have the inside lane given the indications. However this does not take away from the fact that the guy has to do what he set out to do.
If he does, he will get criticism, If he doesn't he will get criticism. Damn I don't want to be in his position.
I have increasingly a sympathy for our coaches. In the past we have seen many a Bok test win disappear thanks to bent dwon under refs. Then we have also an inferior player manager system. Nobody takes into account very seriously the disruption injuries make.
That said we have to be smarter to reclaim our natural position as number 1. We need above everything brain power. We need guys like Dr Brendon Venter (We have loubscher instead !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and the rugby genuis Rassie Erasmus. Mallet also impresses me as a mature deeply insightfull coach. We need to revamp how our elite players are managed.
Now what stops all ths you have to ask. Political interference and the failure at the TOP at SARFU. I would call a national indaba. I would also constitue a review by a consulting firm as to what is wrong with our rugby system as benchmarked against best practice.
And here we will for once be able to thank our dear kiwi friends (Great bunch of blokes actually - sincerely ment) for providing us with some tips. Nothing is rocket science of course - kiwi bird brains couldnt give us rocker science stuff BUT because they are winning and have been number 1 for so much of the time - it would need to be explained by SARFU why they are not implementing best practice.
When I hear of game plans and how much we kick and dont kick it gets frustrating. Those things do matter of course but we HAVE BIG FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES AT PLAY THAT UNLESS RESOLVED MEAN WE CANNOT POSSIBLY HOPE TO ACHIEVE OUR POTENTIAL APART FROM SOME SPELLS AT THE TOP. I THINK WE COULD DOMINATE THE WORLD RUBGY RANKINGS MUCH AS NZ HAVE DONE SINCE ISOLATION BUT WILL NOT UNLESS WE CHANGE THEY WAY WE OPERATE. DO WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO PLAY SECOND FIDDLE. I FEAR THE MONEY BOYS AT THE TOP COULDNT CARELESS. WHO WILL LEAD US OUT OF THIS MESS?
Under Meyer and given the talent pool we have we can still have some good years commencing 2013 but its consistency we need. Being consistently the best side. Under the current regime there WILL NOT be that consistency.
Rant over.
i agree beeno and best practices dictates structures playing personal and a science minded approach. a system where a player is developed and build as a rounded player in the long run will yield much better results and the mere fact that our game pattern looks like a playbook out of the middle ages. the school boy style errors that i see and poor attention to detail is things that should have been coached into players before they even reach the top level. that being said meyer has not crowned himself in glory and there i say if things dont change very quickly in terms of game pattern and approach he will more than likely find himself in the unemployment line.
SARU top managment need to mandate to all the coaches of how and the type of rugby they want to play....that system should be duplicated across the board. attacking/skills coaches should be implemented and train the players. why is this not a happening ???? as beeno said its not rocket science to get the personal in place. the level or rugby IQ our there is amazing but the first step is to understand the problem and to employ a person to combat it....the major issues wont fix themselves while they sit around there bars and fling insults at the TV.
meyer and co are out of sync with how modern rugby is meant to be played and i feel we need to make big calls now to stop this rot before we go to 2015 and waste a whole generations worth of talent due to inferior game tactics and poor playing pattern
Sharkbok
Status: Bok regular
Posts: 824 RE: Team changes for Scots
November 12, 2012, 08:51:30
Ek- Playing 3 different flyhalfs in 3 consecutive games is unlikely, and I doubt that Meyer ever intended his comments to be a statement of that.
Meyer said that he wanted to establish a 2nd choice to Goosen...............................
When, and where?
BokB$k
In seence you have the best available team there. In essence you want Taute moved to full back to replace Kirchner - who was poor on Saturday - wise move that one.
But then - who is to replace Taute? De Jongh was and remains one of the worst choices made by Meyer when he picked the squad. De Jongh was extremely poor in Super 15 from an attacking perspective - read his stats and that will confirm it - sound defender, bit a real liability in all other facets of the game. However, the inclusion of De Jongh is to my mind a foregone conslusion - but the end result will be zero minus.
I would not play Rhule - but rather Mvovo on the wing instead of Hougaard. The latter failed on the wing again. He played on the wing three times and he failed three times.
To replace Pienaar - the best-performing player on Saturday - with Hougaard, who failed his year repeatedly as a scrummie - would be a disaster. There is something amiss in Hougaard that makes him change his way very difficult. If there was one player that went to minus zero in the Springbok environment it is Hougaard. Mind you - Hougaard was very poor as a replacement scrummie during the CC semi - so his inclusion in the team as a scrummie would be seriously problematic.
Insofar as your forwards are concerned - I tyhink you are correct in selection. Pity about Van der Linde on the bench though - Meyer has only himself to blame for that conundrum. My bench would be as foillows in respect of backline replacements:-
21 - Vermaak
22 - Morne Steyn
23 - Rhule
There is a very real possibility that we can lose this game - especially after the torrid display agains the Irish.
Mike the Scots are not to be underestimated. They have a good pack and we have a dysfuntional backline so we need the forwards to fire for 80 minutes not 40 and hope our backline play improves. I suspect you will find them playing better in this second test. Looking forward to seeing the team selection.
Windpomp are you questioning that Meyyer wanted to have two flyhalves or what. Ou windpomp loves to sound all mysterious and the one in the know! Hahahahhahaha nice to hear from the coot after all this time!
i would have to agree the scots are not a bad outfit at all. its pretty much the same team that knocked over the wallies. its pretty much a 10 man boks team vs a 15 man scotland team. they will punish any mistakes so if we dont repeat the first half of the irish game we should take it by 6 or so. due to our forwards obsessed playing pattern the fat boys up front need to be on it for 80= minutes
do not take scotland likely
@mike, I hear what you syaing, and yeah maybe i am harsh on Pienaar. as for Mvovo, he can't defend, and he is never comfortable under the high ball (remember the game against the aussies).
BokbeF$k
Sure - but Mvovo seemed to show some improvement on the issue of high balls in the CC. In any event - to my mind it is a toss-up between Rhile and Mvovo. Mvovo made a serious flop in the Australia game - Rhule th same in the Under 20 WC. Hope in ft that both can improve.
Beeno
The props are indeed problematic. Meyer should have picked the best available props for the bench. Of the three left would pick the following two if Jannie cannot play:-
* Cilliers and Van der Merwe
* Bench - Malherbe
The situation is that Van der Linde is the only other option - but he is obviously unfit and was useless on Saturday. There seems to be no way forward without a further call-up. I actually suspect it would happen if Jannie cannot play.
