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FORUM / RUGBY /  The 8 man Sevens Game of the nZ

The 8 man Sevens Game of the nZ

Started by clevermike16 REPLIES686 VIEWS· 10 Feb 2016, 10:37
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Feb 2016, 10:37
#1
10 Feb 2016, 10:37#1
The following from News24:-
"South African referee Craig Joubert is once again in the spotlight after failing to notice that New Zealand fielded eight players during their HSBC World Rugby Sevens Series match against Australia in Sydney at the weekend.

During the teams’ pool stage match on Saturday, it appeared as though the All Blacks Sevens side had eight players on the field as they scored a late try to level the match at 17-all.


According to Sky Sports, Joubert was the match referee and neither he, nor any of the other officials, noticed that the Kiwis fielded an extra player.


Following last Saturday’s incident in Sydney, World Rugby confirmed an investigation is underway into the lapse in officiating, but confirmed the result of the match would stand even though it was brought to their attention before Sunday's knockout stages began.

New Zealand went on to win the Sydney Sevens after scoring another stoppage-time try in the final against Australia.


As of Wednesday morning, World Rugby had given no indication of what punishment - if any - would be meted out to New Zealand.


With the match result to stand, a point deduction, fine and/or ban for coach Gordon Tietjens appears the most likely course of sanction.


Joubert copped heavy criticism during last year's Rugby World Cup when he awarded a controversial late penalty to Australia which enabled them to beat Scotland in the quarter-finals. World Rugby confirmed afterwards that Joubert had made a mistake.

Joubert also raised the ire of the Crusaders in the final of Super Rugby 2014 when he awarded the Waratahs an injury-time penalty which gave the Sydneysiders victory. Again, Joubert was forced to own up to the penalty being incorrect."


I gain the impression that Joubert is an excellent referee - with a weakness to give favourable decisions to home teams.  he copped some serious criticism in the WC final in 2011.   That was followed by his performance last year in the Super 15 final.  Although not a home game the decisionmaking in the Scotland game last year was also questionable.  


However, to expect that officials should be able to identify an eighth player in Sevens games is rubbish.   The officials watch the game and do not constantly count players.   In the previous case it happened in Las Vegas - there was a break in play and the referee and officials then found the extra NZ player on the field of play.   The extra player was then sent packing.


Insofar as the penalty for the offence is concerned - I think the team should lose 50% of the points they earned in the Tournament - and since  it is not the first time it happened - I think a ban for Tietjens  of at least six months - or for the rest of the  tournaments for the current year should be implemented.    There is no way that he did not know that there was an extra player on the field of ply - as was the case in Las Vegas.     

BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
10 Feb 2016, 10:59
#2
10 Feb 2016, 10:59#2
 .....not so clevermike if anyone saw how SA ref Rasta ushered substitute players on and off in Sydney there can be no error...it;'s those officiating that are responsible the game is played by the rules isn't it?...that way we won't get so many  headlines about incompetent yarpy refs..
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Feb 2016, 11:06
#3
10 Feb 2016, 11:06#3
 Brycy
With respect - one has always to be on the look out for NZ shenanigans and crooking when rugby is involved.  I would not be proud of Tietjens if I were you - he tried it before and it did not work and now was exposed in another game.  How many other close matches did he not sneak on an extra player when NZ was in trouble and where the crooking was not noticed?  
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
10 Feb 2016, 11:21
#4
10 Feb 2016, 11:21#4

 ...notso clevermike, it's easy to deflect responsibility away from the officials adjudicating the match...

..but if the match officials ,( and there is three of them) aren't capable of the basics of the game then you have to question their competence refereeing at this level...

... you only have to look at the track record of the referee in question...

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
10 Feb 2016, 11:22
#5
10 Feb 2016, 11:22#5
 Brycy, the ABs are clearly numero uno ............ but on performances over the last ten years, SA refs are, imo., far better than your lot .

*All times CAT (GMT+2) World Rugby needs to show leadership



At a time when rugby is fighting a number of other codes for the entertainment dollar and preparing itself for a long-awaited return to the Olympics, World Rugby needs to step up and display the sort of leadership that at the moment is rather inconspicuous.

The lack of response from World Rugby to the past fortnight of Sevens tournaments is concerning, especially as their behaviour seems to give credence to their critics that the playing fields are not equal for all teams.

Two Sevens tournaments have gone by, both won by the All Blacks, and both shrouded in controversy.

First of all it needs to be said that Gordon Tietjens is a fine coach and has an abundance of talent in his team that certainly don’t need these controversies to take the shine off their performances.

But the way things have gone in the past few weeks has certainly raised more than a few eyebrows across the globe and created the impression that there is a different set of rules for the Kiwis.

Of course it could be purely coincidental, and there is no need to delve into conspiracy theories here, but it is more the way that World Rugby have reacted than what actually transpired that is the cause for concern.

Matt O’Brien’s performance in the final of the Wellington Sevens must rank as one of the poorest in Sevens history, but instead of action World Rugby went into overdrive on the defensive.

When an article appeared which stated that O’Brien had apologised to Bok coach Neil Powell, most of those across the globe saw it for what it was – a referee admitting he made mistakes. Show over, let’s move on.

But the next day World Rugby did their best to rubbish the story, despite the fact that the interview is on tape, saying Powell was misquoted.

What is concerning is not that they defended O’Brien, but the fact that the only thing that forced them into action was an article saying he admitted a mistake.

While World Rugby were quick to hang Craig Joubert out to dry for an error in the World Cup semifinal – an error that Joubert is not allowed to comment on, nor defend himself – they let O’Brien’s display slide.

You would think it is pretty obvious that with Sevens referee’s boss Paddy O’Brien being Matt’s dad, and having grown up a Kiwi, the conflict of interest and potential resulting fall-out should be avoided at all costs.

While my sources tell me O’Brien senior has little to do with the selection if Matt is involved (he literally leaves the room when Tappe Henning and Vinny Munro make the call), in the modern age with all the threats of sport betting and influencing results, there should be a game plan to handle such situations.

But all this wasn’t as serious as this weekend’s clash, where – and Australia’s Fox Sports video shows it clearly – New Zealand fielded eight players in the final pool match on day one.

All eight were involved in the final movement that led to the score-levelling try, but the result was allowed to stand and the Kiwis went on to win the competition.

The fact that no action was taken was bizarre in itself, and after the outcry World Rugby were forced to admit they were “investigating” the incident but that no comment would be given.

Whether this was a sideline blunder by officials or on purpose still needs to be determined, but it is clear New Zealand took advantage of the extra man and forced the draw. Australia’s defensive pattern may have been stretched normally, but with an extra man it is almost impossible to defend.

By letting the result stand, and only investigating it after the conclusion of the tournament, World Rugby have set a rather dangerous precedent - teams have the option to infringe now knowing that any investigation would only be handled after the conclusion of the tournament.

There is also a real danger that if World Rugby lets this slide, and takes no concrete action, it makes a mockery of the set of laws that are there to prevent teams having an unfair advantage.

The Olympics loom large and the very real prospect of officials influencing the result remains a massive concern for the rugby fraternity. Having fought so hard to join the Olympic family, the worst thing that can happen to Sevens is that another shocker determines who emerges as the Olympic champion.

Rugby as a worldwide sport needs World Rugby to show leadership here, to take bold steps and to be open, honest and accountable. It needs World Rugby to ensure that the playing field is level for all teams.

Rugby fans understand that mistakes are made. When they are consistently denied or repeated, it sours things.

The #NZ8s issue is a serious one, as is O’Brien’s performance. Both favoured the one team that gets more 50-50 calls their way than anyone else.

It is time that the world's governing body leads by example.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Feb 2016, 11:26
#6
10 Feb 2016, 11:26#6
I'm curious
At what point does the result get reversed or at the very least, be adjusted
All these blatant human mistakes, which of course will always happen in any sport to a certain degree
But I still have to ask, what needs to happen, and be deemed so serious, that the actual outcome of the game is called into question
It just seems like anything can happen these days , but the result will still stand
Ludicrous 
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Feb 2016, 11:28
#7
10 Feb 2016, 11:28#7
Having said that, the ref is obviously at fault here..... but
Why aren't New Zealand being penalized for sending on the additional player without first checking how many were currently on the field to begin with? 
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
10 Feb 2016, 11:31
#8
10 Feb 2016, 11:31#8

 ....the fact no action has been taken comes down to the fact that the referee in question who is equally responsible would have to be removed...simple as that..it wou'd've been career ending for Joubert so they've chosen to sweep it all under the carpet instead...



DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Feb 2016, 11:37
#9
10 Feb 2016, 11:37#9
At what point though, does the actual result of the game get looked at
At the moment, almost anything can happen, and it only gets looked at after the game, and the result is never changed, irrespective of how bad the "complaint / issue" / transgression" was during the game 
That is what makes this ludicrous
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
10 Feb 2016, 11:38
#10
10 Feb 2016, 11:38#10
 C'mon you can't blame the ref ......... there are officials on the sideline orchestrating the comings & goings of the subs . Imagine the ref at em crucial moments attempting a head count as well . Get real, & enjoy your good fortune .
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Feb 2016, 11:50
#11
10 Feb 2016, 11:50#11
We can say that Blob, but the world won't
I agree 100% with you
That's why I asked the question already, why were the New Zealand team not pulled apart for this? 
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Feb 2016, 11:54
#12
10 Feb 2016, 11:54#12
For the record
I fully agree with the article that the All Blacks get away with murder
It is so blatantly obvious
And no, this is not just against South Africa, but all teams they play against
Richie McCaw has almost had free reign through most of his career, but blondy haired Schalk who is so much more noticable on the field constantly got sanctioned
Ja well

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
10 Feb 2016, 12:02
#13
10 Feb 2016, 12:02#13
 DA, the 1924 ABs were called the 'Invincibles' .......... today's lot can be named the 'Untouchables'
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,276 posts
10 Feb 2016, 13:10
#14
10 Feb 2016, 13:10#14
The 7's World Series tournament needs to be rebranded. 
The 7's World and 8 New Zealand cheats Series. 
New Zealand can allways produce the 8th cheat when needed. (As 2 proven incidents have shown,  but who knows how many have happened )
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Feb 2016, 13:28
#15
10 Feb 2016, 13:28#15
 SB
I agree with you - one tournament case could be regarded as a mistake - two by the same team and management cannot be called a mistake as well.
They cheated in both cases.   How many other Sevens games took place when the same scam was perpetrated but not discovered is anybody's guess.   
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Feb 2016, 13:57
#16
10 Feb 2016, 13:57#16
Lol @ Blob
So true
It's so obvious its scary what they get away with  
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,276 posts
10 Feb 2016, 14:02
#17
10 Feb 2016, 14:02#17
There was also that incident in the XV-man format when New Zealand was playing the Boks- with a bench that was different to the named day squad. New Zealand was trying to bring a player to the pitch as a tactical substitution.
  (This could have been any of the 30 man touring squad- depending on what was needed). We let them get away with it given how good sportsman we are. New Zealand packed 30 player uniforms in the team bus to cover any eventuality. One of them changed into a blazer and tie, while the other switched to match day strip...................
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