The amazing absence of young player success.

Since RWC07, you would have expected at least half the team to now be populated with newbies, who had established themselves in the team. But where are the new Habanas, Monties, Jeans, F du Preezs, Victors, Schalks, Bakkies and Osses? Players who are fixtures in the team?

At best we have found JP (a while ago), Jannie, Etzebeth and Bismarck. The Beast perhaps. But only Etzebeth in the last two years. It's a famine , no question. And as we look at our thin pickings at centre, scrumhalf and  lock, traditionally positions of great strength, one has to wonder why.

One thing is for sure....our golden oldies are still way better than this new crop.

 Goosen is the best flyhalf in years, hopefully he can get more conditioned and be less injury prone. Against Australia he looked the real deal. 

Against Australia the entire team looked the real deal and the very next week against NZ they looked.............

 The backline looked the real deal because of Goosen. Pienaar also had a good game but it was Goosen that took the play to another dimension by attacking the advantage line, varying his running angles and drawing in the defence to create space for those outside him

Mozart

I am not as despondent about the issue of younger players as you are.   I must in this regard point out that most of the players mentioned by you in fact left at the end of 2011 and some of those still playing were  suffering from injuties.

In the first instance - lets look at Super 15 - we really did not too badly at all in that compettion getting three of the top 6 teams on the log.   There were as many senior players lost on that level by franchises as there were on Springbok level - so there was really a remarkable  number of younger players coming through that would get into the Springbok team sooner rather than later.    There was some serious problems on Super 15 level - that was even problematic on test level - and those were  deficiencies shown by the more senior players in teams. 

About the forwards I am not worried at all.   The Springbok forward pack had an edge on New Zealand and was the main contributors to the performance as a team as a whole in all tests played.   Because of weird selections like Greyling, Werner Kruger; Steenkamp and Van der Linde - the more promising younger props did not get any playing time on international level.   There is more than enough talent coming through.

The problem was that Meyer made some serious selection errors and did not necessarily select the best players.   Of the list mentioned by you - Jean De Villiers is the only player that really continued to play this year on both levels.   On the whole he was one of the senior players that did not perform well at all.  The other poor performers amongst the more senior players were Francois Steyn, Morne Steyn and Hougaard .

Of the players mentioned - Habana still has two to three years top rugby in him.   I am not worried at all about a replacement for Jean De Villiers - there are a number players at center that will get more opportunities on Super 15 level next year and definitely come through and perform better than the present incumbents.    I say this becuase our backline was static over the last two years and any change will be an improvement.      

Where I do believe there is a problematic situation is in the full back and scrummie positions - and we will have too wait and see what happens in 2013 Super 15.  

The amazing absence of young players is down to the pathetic selections by the coaches in charge who continue to show faith in washed up hasbeens and have records to match their pathetic selections.

Your take on young players or the lack thereof would make meaningful reading if the Boks had a 85% win record with the old farts on board.

If Meyer had had any substance, he would have invested in more of the young, given Etzebeth has lead the way. Instead the conservative, out of touch coach expected to challenge the world with the likes of Kirchner, Jean, de Jongh, Morne, Pienaar, CJ, Cilliers, Liebenberg, Steenkamp, Heinke v/d Merwe and Jeandre Kruger - what a fool the man is and he has the record to prove it.

Saffex

I must agree in broad terms with you here.   The players mentioned by Mozart played international rugby for 7 or more years and built up reputations.   Some really overstayed their welcome as well and by 2011 was nothing to write home about.

In essense - the question is how do you make a judgement about players not coming through - when they effectively was given zero chance on international level?  The younger plyers will also built up international stature and will come through in the years to come.

Even the coach admitted he made mistakes in player selection this year - and I hope he cuts it out next year.   I am not going to condemn younger players before they were given realistic opportunities to play rugby in more than just a few tests.  

What Mozart misses out on is a player like Etzebeth - at his age he is ten times the player Bakkies Botha and Mattfield were at that age.   I am going to make a clear statement and that is that Etzebeth in the longer term will be a better lock forward than either Botha or Mattfield were. 

It is easy to make sweeping statements about the golden oldies - who played for many years and then say that nothing has come through from the younger players - who had minimal opportunities to play this year on test level.   Those playing on Super 15 level were in fact better than most of the so-called golden oldies were when they started off playing on Super Series level - Etzebeth being a typical example.      

Mike for once I agree with you. The evidence shows Meyer has got it wrong. Much of what he got wrong was his investment in washed up hasbeens.

We have the best pool of young talent I have seen in years, better than I ever recall. Proof of this is three of our S15 sides fininshing in the top 5 of the log and our Baby Boks winning the Junior WC. Our S15 sides were dominated with youngsters.

Good old Moz tells us we have no lock or centre depth, shows just how out of touch he is. We have more locks and centres coming through than ever.

Locks: Etzebeth, Elstadt, Steph du Toit, Bresler, Paul Willemse, Juan Botha, E.Osthuizen, Bulbring, Roodt, JA Marais, Peet Marais, Quinn Roux, Carl Wegner

Centres: Taute, JJ.Engelbrecht, Jordaan, JP du Plessis, Pat Howard, de Allande, Serfontein, Dries Swanepoel, Frans Venter, Sadie

And I'm not saying these guys will all be Boks, but what they are are damn fine prospects

Saffex

I am delighted about the youngsters coming through - it can only lead to incumbents having to up their game to stay in contention for future selection.   If I was a more senior player - I would really wet myself thinking of the threat coming my way.

I do not necessarily agree with all the players mentioned by you - but i do think that Super 15 next year woiuld be an eye-opener for many doubting thomases. 

Sure spraying those selections, Shotgun.....there's no doubt about one or two making the cut but that's what happens when you spray them pellets.

OBTW that wouldn't be Juan De Jongh by any chance?

One certainty ugly mug, is that you dont have a clue who 90% of those players are you ignorant twat.

Given how pathetic de Jongh was on the EOYT tour chances are he wont see another test. Why on earth he was on tour is beyond me

Was De Jongh as pathetic as the player you retired...Bryan Habana?

Mike Moz has repeatedly said what a fine player Etzebeth is so where are you coming from on that.

HhahahahaDenny tha twas another youth based call from snapster!! Hilarious really. When Schalk, voted 2011 SA player of the year, was injured ou snapster could wait to give him the boot from the Bok side.

As for all these youngsters this year was for most a  year too soon.  What ou snaspete doesnt realise is that there is a big gap between under 21 and Boks!!!  Let these kids start dominating at Super 15 level and then we can talk about them as Boks. As it stands quite few young players saw time with the Boks

I agree we have some great talent coming through and some injured talent coming back so 2013 should go better. Meyer has had a good start to his career given the circumstances.  Give the man a fair chance. If Morne  had had his kicking boots on we would have won the Rugby Championship. Keep that fact in mind.

We move into 2013 second in the rankings and with increased confidence and hope.

Snapster and Mike should stop bleating so much!  

Beeno

For the first 7 tests Mozart constantly said Etzebeth was average and not really good enough - he then changed to above average and even above he said he was good in his last two tests.   That was not what I would call really enthusiastic support from the start - is it?

All stats indicate that some of our present senior players were not up to standard - I am not bleating, I am stating facts based on their actual performances.

Since that season of good will message of yours  I never mentioned our coach critically once in any message - so I am keeping up to my undertaking.

Aha the season of goodwill. I seem to have forgotten about that for a moment having to deal with misbehaving kiwis and miscreants like snapster and jallopy!

But I am not too serious on this Mike. I have my concerns but remain hopeful.

Mike one thing to recognise is that class player like can look poor in a backline asked to play in a certain way.  I am giving Meyer another year to get our backline going. I think we are going to have a very good pack and very good defence. These things are very much in place already and should be even better next year.

Can he lift the potency of our attack. Talent cannot be an excuse. So I expect a good coach to imrove this is aspect for sure. We shall see.

At the time I made the call on Habana, he was pretty damn awful, but then again you are too much of an arse to acknowledge that, nor will you acknowledge the fact that I conceded I was wrong on Habana.

But no doubt in a few months time you will be stupid enough to raise this very point again - why because you are as thick as pig pooh and have very little to rely on other than a load of fabrication - its your style.

Denise, please dont leave the site for extended periods as you do, we need your valuable input on here. This place lacks true substance without you