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The Cricket Test Series has been completed

Started by clevermike28 REPLIES501 VIEWS· 06 Jan 2015, 13:43
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Jan 2015, 13:43
#1
06 Jan 2015, 13:43#1

With South Africa winning the series 2 - 0 with rain causing the seond test not to be completed.   There is no way Australia can overtake SA in the rating and SA will end the ICC year progamme (ending 31 March 2015 in the number one ranking.   The ICC has already handed the mace to the team - together with a cheque for $500 000.   Wonder how much of that money is ending up with the players?


Although SA has a strong team - there are some defects in the team and some adjustments will be advisable.    I think that the following may be advisable:-


*    Alviro Petersen is way past his best and it i time that he be replaced.   I think the better move would be to try Stiaan van Zyl as the other opening batter - but it may be necessary ultimately to use Quinton de Kock in that position.    Whatever happens van Zyl is a must to remain in the starting line-up.


*    Serious attention should be paid to Philander - he is not taking enough wickets anymore.  I think that Marchant de Lange should be considered as a replacement for him.


We have very good back-up batters to replace any of the other players in the case of injury.   Those are David Miller and Rillee Rossouw.   


With all injured players back - the starting line-up should look like the following:-


1     Dean Elgar

2     Quinton de Kock/Stiaan van Zyl

3     Faf du Plessis

4     Hashim Amla

5     De Villiers

6     Stiaan van Zyl/Quinton de Kock

7    JP Duminy

8     Dale Steyn

9    Simon Harmer

10   Marchant de Lange

11   Morne Steyn


Back up Batters -   Rilleee Rossouw, David Miller

Bak-up bowlers  -   Philander,  Abbott.



    

BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
06 Jan 2015, 14:06
#2
06 Jan 2015, 14:06#2


1     Dean Elgar

2     Quinton de Kock/Stiaan van Zyl

3     Faf du Plessis

4     Hashim Amla

5     De Villiers

6     Stiaan van Zyl/Quinton de Kock

7    JP Duminy

8    Dale Steyn

9    Simon Harmer

10   Marchant de Lange

11   Morne Steyn


Morne Steyn - huh? - Oh, OK, but then you must also select Matfield.


On a more serious note:

Team did well, but will they do as well in the ODIs?


At least the doomsayers who said that Smith and Kallis departure will show, were proven wrong.


 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
06 Jan 2015, 14:10
#3
06 Jan 2015, 14:10#3
 where is Alberts and Frans Steyn?
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
06 Jan 2015, 14:24
#4
06 Jan 2015, 14:24#4
 
Probably one of the most boring games ever invented.

Maybe Morne can liven things up a bit by kicking for touch.

 


DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
06 Jan 2015, 14:36
#5
06 Jan 2015, 14:36#5

Oh please Mike

 

Some people are just so quick to dump a player these days.

 

Philander has played 29 matches, scored 697 runs with a highest of 74, and average of 26.80 and taken 121 wickets at a bowling average of 21.95 with fivers in 9 of those innings, against the worlds top sides, not minnows, with a best of 6/44.

 

That is not the type of player to dump because he has had a bit of a lean season 

 

I say you are little bit too hasty in throwing him to the wolves and only leaving him as a backup bowler

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
06 Jan 2015, 15:00
#6
06 Jan 2015, 15:00#6
 You beat me DA.


Yeah right. Throw out the 4th best bowler and the second best all rounder on the ICC test rankings.

Test Bowlers:

ICC Player Rankings Rank

Name

Country

Rating

1 D.W. Steyn SA 906 2 R.J. Harris AUS 851 3 H.M.R.K.B. Herath SL 842 4 V.D. Philander SA 822 5 M.G. Johnson AUS 812

All Rounders:

ICC Player Rankings Rank

Name

Country

Rating

1 Shakib Al Hasan BAN 398 2 V.D. Philander SA 372 3 R. Ashwin IND 325 4 M.G. Johnson AUS 297 5 S.C.J. Broad ENG 296

I will have a look at his figures for the last twelve months and post it as well.




CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
06 Jan 2015, 15:07
#7
06 Jan 2015, 15:07#7
 clever
i had similar thoughts about QdK up the order.
Problem is, to open the batting as well as keep wicket in tests over an extended period is really difficult. no one has been able to successfully do it over an extended period.

Id keep QdK at 7 with JP at 6 and look to open with Stiaan:

1 Elgar
2 van Zyl
3 Faf
4 Amla
5 de Villiers
6 JP
7 QdK
8 Vern
9 Harmer
10 Steyn
11 Morkel
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
06 Jan 2015, 15:21
#8
06 Jan 2015, 15:21#8
 Vernon Philander 2013 and 2014.

Span Mat           Runs HS     Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI    Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff
2013
                7    202  74   28.85      0    31   5/59   19.45    1 2 0    9.40 2014
                8    228  51* 45.60      0    16   4/29   41.62    0 3 0    3.97

Even though he has taken less wickets in 2014, his contribution with the bat has improved by some margin, from an average of 28.85 to 45.60 per match. That is some a contribution for someone that can only be described a bowling all-rounder.




DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
06 Jan 2015, 15:40
#9
06 Jan 2015, 15:40#9

I agree Ceradyne

 

It's very short sighted to want him out of the side 

ST
stu5Rookie70 posts
06 Jan 2015, 17:10
#10
06 Jan 2015, 17:10#10
 Respect to Alviro for realising his time is done and has retired from international cricket.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Jan 2015, 17:52
#11
06 Jan 2015, 17:52#11
 Maybe I am wrong about Philander - but he was not a house on fire in the Aussie ODI's either.   I think the problem is not with accuracy - but with the pace at which he is bowling.   Some pitches is very good for him to bowl on - flat pitches seems to give him problems.
Did not know that Alviro Petersen announced his retirement from International cricket - but he is already 35 years of age.  He is doing a lot of welfare work and a gentleman by all accounts - I am sure we all wish him well for the future.  
It would be interesting to see what the team looks like when the next rtest series comes around.   
Meantime the ODI squad to go to the WC will also be announced soon - so from a cric ketting perspective there are interesting times ahead.   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Jan 2015, 17:53
#12
06 Jan 2015, 17:53#12
 As the commentators pointed out Philander was bowling a perfect line and length, with great consistency. But he was getting no movement. That  made him rather toothless against a poor batting team. Yesterday he got a bit of reverse swing.....but in conditions where swing is unlikely, Philander is not a wicket taker. He remains economical and a good bat. It would be hard to drop him but  his position is less automatic these days.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
06 Jan 2015, 18:50
#13
06 Jan 2015, 18:50#13
 Did not know that Alviro Petersen announced his retirement from International cricket - but he is already 35 years of age.
One day everybody will hopefully understand that it is not always about age or rather that age is in most cases a relative concept. Thirty five in cricket is not particularly old.

Oldest Test cricketers still playing at Test level

NamelllCountryDate of birthDebutAge as at
6 January 2015Misbah-ul-HaqPakistan28 May 19748 March 200140 years, 223 daysShivnarine ChanderpaulWest Indies16 August 197417 May 199440 years, 143 daysChris RogersAustralia31 August 197716 January 200837 years, 128 daysSaeed AjmalPakistan14 October 19774 July 200937 years, 84 daysBrad HaddinAustralia23 October 197722 May 200837 years, 75 daysKumar SangakkaraSri Lanka27 October 197720 July 200037 years, 71 daysYounis KhanPakistan29 November 197726 February 200037 years, 38 days

Oldest Test cricketers still playing at Test level, by country

Note: The previous record holderSachin Tendulkar (born 24 April 1973), retired from Test cricket on 16 November 2013 at the age of 40 years, 206 days.


Omar Henry made his test debut at 40 years, 295 days
EDIT: The above is probably outdated. Kevin Pietersen is gone and the current oldest England players are Ian Bell and MatT Prior at 32.

CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
06 Jan 2015, 19:07
#14
06 Jan 2015, 19:07#14
 What Mozart said...
JI
Jake is WhiteNewbie4 posts
06 Jan 2015, 20:15
#15
06 Jan 2015, 20:15#15
 Hello

Why do you all like to pick on the coloured ou. Vern has been unlucky not to have picked up some more wickets against the black ou's.

He beat the outside edge so many times, if it took any more beatings Vern would go to jail!

Im looking forward to seeing Stiaan opening the batting now that my nephew has retired.

Bavuma? If he were white, he wouldn't make the Old Edwardians reserve league. Lucky the ou is black. My 2 year old nephew got a contract at the Lions because he is black and can hold a cricket ball. We have world class selectors! They can already see his potential.

I hope Sanga retires before he scores more than 13289 runs.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Jan 2015, 23:35
#16
06 Jan 2015, 23:35#16
 Philander must be used judiciously. If the wicket is not likely to seam he is toothless. He bowls around the 130km mark on average. On a seaming wicket he is dangerous. Why the heck pick him regardless? 
Bavuma must vamos! Let him perfom at domestic first class level first. Duminy in any event is back.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Jan 2015, 00:12
#17
07 Jan 2015, 00:12#17
 I did mention the issue of replacement of Alviro Pietersen - but it may happen that Amla opens the batting - he opens in ODI's anyway.   That may mean that De Villiers is moved up to 4 - which would not be a bad move at all.   The order then can be that Stiaan bats at 5, Duminy at 6 and De Kock at 7 - which may be the better move to make.  
   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Jan 2015, 00:22
#18
07 Jan 2015, 00:22#18
 Here we have another moron dipping in - the Zeromoron.    Most cricketers retire in their early to middle thirties - there are exceptions to the rule - but thaose are exceptional players that has been around for years.
 You mention in your list Pietersen, but he is not an international cricket player anymore - albeit for internal English pettiness reasons.
What morons do not realize that age per se is not the problem - it is in the case of cricket physical deficiencies - such as hand-eye co- ordination - that becomes a gradual and increasing problem.    The result is an increasing tendency for them to score less and less runs -  or in the case of fast bowlers their pace decreases.
In the case of Pietersen - he was a good international level player - but he definitely ws not  cricketing great - so the guy is off to England to build on his retirement fund.   Good luck to him.        
JI
Jake is WhiteNewbie4 posts
07 Jan 2015, 00:57
#19
07 Jan 2015, 00:57#19
 Why fuck up the whole batting order so Amla can open?
You will be moving 3 or 4 players around.
WHy not just move Stiaan up or find another opener?

Thank the lord you are sitting at home and not at the selectors table!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Jan 2015, 11:22
#20
07 Jan 2015, 11:22#20

Wow Mike you want to drop Philander......are you bloody crazy?

 

That is not worth debating.

 

Alviro, Robin and Bavuma must go.

 

Rossouw and Miller need to replace the two bats, Harmer has replaced Robin.......de Kock will return as will JP.

 

de Lange and Rabada need to be in the squad

 

The SA squad going forward should be:

 

1. Elgar 2. v/Zyl 3. Amla 4. AB 5. JP 6. Rossouw 7. de Kock 8. Philander 9. Harmer 10. Steyn 11. Morkel 12. Faf 13. Miller 14. de Lange 15. Rabada 16. Parnell  

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Jan 2015, 13:32
#21
07 Jan 2015, 13:32#21
 I would keep Philander in the squad but ot selecthi for non seamer friendly wickets.
Miller is very questionable. His stast are:
CompetitionODIFCLAT20IMatches474210926Runs scored9132,0352,457415Batting average32.6032.8233.6525.92
Note his first class batting averafge is only 32.82 after 42 matches. 
He is defintely not worthy of being considered for a test spot. He is 25.Snapster why pick a guy like this!!!!! His first class average is worse than Bavuma.
ODI maybe?Jake is White is right  - dont put Amla in to open
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Jan 2015, 13:32
#22
07 Jan 2015, 13:32#22
 I would keep Philander in the squad but ot selecthi for non seamer friendly wickets.
Miller is very questionable. His stats are:
CompetitionODIFCLAT20IMatches474210926Runs scored9132,0352,457415Batting average32.6032.8233.6525.92
Note his first class batting averafge is only 32.82 after 42 matches. 
He is definitely not worthy of being considered for a test spot. He is 25.Snapster why pick a guy like this!!!!! His first class average is worse than Bavuma. ODI maybe?Jake is White is right  - dont put Amla in to open he is doing great whe re he is!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Jan 2015, 14:42
#23
07 Jan 2015, 14:42#23

Beenkop stop speaking crap......Miller was only really seen as an ODI player and has little exposure in the longer format. My call is that given he has made the grade at ODI level and has a very good technique, there is no reason in the world he could not make it at test level.

 

This of course goes straight over your stupid head.......from a technical and mental point, Miller looks the part.

 

His average in the longer format would increase given the experience and confidence he now plays with. My guess is that his average is lower due to his early career.

 

As for any fool thinking Philander should not start for SA in tests, clearly indicates they know stuff all about the game  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Jan 2015, 15:11
#24
07 Jan 2015, 15:11#24
 Jake is White
I am open to suggestions as to who should open the batting.   I also think that Van Zyl could develop into an opener - but he has as far as I know only batted at 3 for the Snakes and do not have opener experience.   I do think he would be able to develop as an opener.   
The other batter that could perhaps be tried as an opener is Rillee Rossouw - he has opened the batting for the Knights and may be the answer as the other opening test batter.   If that is the decision - the rest of the order can be kept unchanged - maybe that would be one alternative. 
 1    Dean Elgar

2      Rillee Rossouw

3      Stiaan van Zyl

4      Hashim Amla

5      De Villiers

6      JP Duminy

7      Quinton de Kock

8      Vernon Philander

9      Dale Steyn

10    Simon Harmer

11   Morne Steyn 
Problem is that may not work out either - since  Faf du Plessis will have to be left out - and the selectors are unlikely to fall for that one.   Quinton de Kock is a certainty - the selectors will not want De Villiers to play as wicketkeeper anymore - so De Kock will have to feature.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Jan 2015, 15:46
#25
07 Jan 2015, 15:46#25

My test side would be:

 

1.Elgar 2. v/Zyl 3. Amla 4. AB 5. JP 6. Rossouw 7. de Kock 8. Philander 9. Steyn 10. Morkel 11. de Lange  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
07 Jan 2015, 16:02
#26
07 Jan 2015, 16:02#26
 What about a spinner, Saff? Obviously one cannot go for a hard and fast, set in stone, test XI but I think that we should have at least on specialised spinner. We have always had sub par spin bowlers or makeshift/part time spin bowlers. That is the one department which we really need to get sorted and even though I do not know a lot about Harmer, the time might be right to stick with him and keep him around.

All the other test sides always have at least one specialist spin bowler. Yes, I know, we have become no 1 and will stay there for some time without a specialist spinner, but in many matches were we battled, it was because of our lack of a proper spin attack. Hand in hand with not having really good specialist spinners, is the fact that we seem to battle against good spinners. Our guys do not have the ability against spin that the likes of Hansie Cronje, Kallis and Jonty Rhodes had. Even Graeme Smith sometimes used to find himself in a tangle against spin bowlers.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Jan 2015, 17:55
#27
07 Jan 2015, 17:55#27

JP would be my spinner, he is more than a part timer, in my opinion he is better than someone like Petersen but that's a tough call on Harmer who looks good.

 

So if we are to play Harmer then de Lange misses out.  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
07 Jan 2015, 19:32
#28
07 Jan 2015, 19:32#28
I think that you would find that, statistically, Robin Petersen is slightly ahead of Duminy. Petersen is not the best out there which is probably why he has not really had that many chances in the test side.


Fact is that apart from Peterson we have not really had specialist spinners for a long time. The last was probably Paul Harris, as far as I can remember, and he was way ahead of both Duminy and Peterson as a bowler.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Jan 2015, 22:30
#29
07 Jan 2015, 22:30#29
Yeah he would be better statistically as he is a specialist and would have bowled far more than JP. 
I just think that if we do not have a world class spinner at our disposal I'd rather see JP doing the job, freeing us up to play a de Lange or Rabada in the side.
But Harmer might just be the answer. Petersen never was


— END OF THREAD —

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