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FORUM / RUGBY /  The fluyhalf performance situation

The fluyhalf performance situation

Started by clevermike32 REPLIES485 VIEWS· 30 Nov 2014, 09:26
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2014, 09:26
#1
30 Nov 2014, 09:26#1

Mozart onbviously thinks that our flyhalfs are not up to standard and as per normal losing the plot completely - punting for the return of Morne Steyn.   Now lets look at the performance of the three flyhalfs yesterday in the games they were involved in:-


Lambie0/069/6/52413022/00/000/0


Pollard0/000/2/2000023/00/000/0


Goosen0/0910/18/85902317/20/000/0


Steyn0/001/5/1200010/00/000/0


Lambie made an excellent line break and found that he did not have the support of any Springbok players to pass the ball to.  Neither of the centers - nor the wings were in sight and he was forced to kick the ball and even then the follow-up of the kick was pathetic - virtualy non-existent.   That was the best show in the game by any backline player.   


Pollard played for 24 minuts and did not produce anything of note.   During most of the time he was on the field of play he had Hougaard at scrummie and the latter was a real disaster - so one cannot really assess his performance.


Goosen - playing for Racing Metro against Castres - statistically had a very good game.  He has been in good form for his Club - irrspective of whether he played at flyhalf or full back.   Yesterday he was at flyhalf.


Stade Francais is playing today and it would be interesting to see whether Morne  Steyn makes an appearance for them.   My guess is that he may be on their bench - so lets wait and see what Mozart's favourite produuces.


The highlighted part is what i wrote on Sunday.  Morne in fatc was on the Stade Francais Bench and made an appearance for them as from minute 70.    I also got his stats.   In the ten minutes he played - he handled the ball 7 times - passing it 5 times - kicking once and made 1 ball carry himself.   Somehow in that time he managed to lose ball possession once - probably an aimless kick directly into touch - a normal fault by him.   Morne was totally ineffective - that was patently clear from the stats.   


 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2014, 17:13
#2
30 Nov 2014, 17:13#2
 Stade Francais played Brive - one of the weaker teams in Top 14 - yesterday and as expected Morne Steyn  Morne Steyn was on the bench and got only 10 minutes playing time.  Stade Francais scored all their points before Steyn came on - so without the stats there is no indication whether Steyn was any good during that 10 minutes.   I will add his stats to the above when they are available tomorrow.  
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
30 Nov 2014, 21:39
#3
30 Nov 2014, 21:39#3
 "Lambie made an excellent line break and found that he did not have the support of any Springbok players to pass the ball to."

Nonsense. He had four support runners to his left and there were only two Welsh defenders ahead of them. His break was excellent, but the decision to kick was stupid.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
30 Nov 2014, 21:46
#4
30 Nov 2014, 21:46#4

 "Nonsense. He had four support runners to his left "


NO, no, no, there was one support runner to his left, it s as clear as daylight, the support runner could have communicated  as Lambie did loo k around, but because of the angle the support runner came at Lambie would have had to look back 45 degrees to spot him.


By the time the kick Landed there were 4 South Africans that almost got to Halfpenny.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2014, 06:03
#5
01 Dec 2014, 06:03#5
 BB
When I looked at th Lambie incident again the support runner that was nearest to Lambie was in fact Reinach.  When the ball landed Reinach had caught up with Lambie - but the next player was Serfontein - about at an angle about 3 meters aw\ay and behind them - I may have missed the fourth runner.   There was no obvious runner to pass the ball to - that was my point I was trying to make - therefore the kick was basically the only way out.   The question at the time was where was the oher players outside of Lambie when he was basically forced to kick.
The trooth fairy
Blablabla.  H would have had eyes behind his head to see those 4 support runners - as BB clearly stated when he was basically foced to kick the ball.   Reinach was nearest to him and he was not in sight at the angle he was running.   The fthree other players were not even in sight ewhen he kicked the ball.   So it was not stupid - only you would claim otherwise.   Stupid.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Dec 2014, 07:13
#6
01 Dec 2014, 07:13#6
Lambie ducked under two forwards who were charging forwards...and then the Red sea opened as it were. I couldn't see an obvious pass he could have made, but the kick was heavy handed.  More to the point his tactical kicking and passing were inept. The kickoff into touch is something of a Lambie trademark. As is the kick over the dead line. The pass to Le Roux's feet was clumsy as was the chip down Davies throat. And the dropped ball in his bread basket was embarrassing.

Now am I being churlish? Maybe a bit, but every one of those incidents cost the team...and cumulatively in a close game they were match losing. Which is why he was subbed early ....he wasn't getting the job done.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
01 Dec 2014, 08:31
#7
01 Dec 2014, 08:31#7
Lambie is either an impact player or a fullback. He can't control a game from start to finish as a flyhalf. If the penny hasn't dropped for some people after this tour, it never will.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
01 Dec 2014, 08:39
#8
01 Dec 2014, 08:39#8
 If that kick by Lambie had been followed up at pace by a wing it may well have caused problems. My only complaint with Lambie was he kicked too much ball away and lost possession.Cant be certain but was the support player well to the left Vermuelen?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2014, 08:43
#9
01 Dec 2014, 08:43#9
 Mozart
I assume you want Morne  Steyn back at flyhlf - look and see what he producd this past weeked and tell me whether that was any good.   
Incidentlly what is meant by a kick being heavy handed?   So lets get back to the return kick of Halfpenny - it was gathered and then passed to Matfield - who made a poor pass to Vermeulen and then buggered up completely - giving away a penalty.   So Lmbi i blamed for a heavy-hnded kick - whatever that may be - followed up by a series of play in which Matfield made a serious bugger-up - leadig to a penalty ffor  Wales - which of course  is never mentioned.    
I would ten times more have Lambie at flyhalf than  Morne Steyn - and that is a fact.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
01 Dec 2014, 08:49
#10
01 Dec 2014, 08:49#10
 
Funny how in the previous match his little chip over the top that lead to a try was highly thought of.

Words like "genius" and "brilliance" were used ... today he's useless and should play off the bench or at full back.

What a crock of shyte. 

Lambie should have been left to settle at 10 right from the start. Instead he's played at 15 and then as 15 cover off the bench and then at 10 ... then get's dropped altogether ... only to be brought back into the mix.




BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
01 Dec 2014, 08:51
#11
01 Dec 2014, 08:51#11

Lambie had a mixed performance is the best way to describe it, he threw a few poor passes to Willie which had to check his run, had those passes come off we wol have had Willie into space.


BUt so you can blame every player for something done poorly or making the wrong decision.


Matfield tried a pick and drive in our 22 and made a royal hash of it, then conceded a penalty.


Coenie hit a ruck from the side blatantly and conceded a penalty.


etc.

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
01 Dec 2014, 09:40
#12
01 Dec 2014, 09:40#12
It was a well executed chip kick in a pre-planned play. That doesn't mean you have a flyhalf who can control a test match. It's pretty clear to anyone who wants to pay attention why he hasn't been given a permanent 10 spot in all the years he has been playing: he can't run the ship.

I'm not making this judgement on this test series alone, all players have off days, sometimes a few in a row. This is a culmination of all my years of watching Lambie. It never changes. First the hype, then the excuses when he doesn't meet expectations. "Oooh but he has been stuffed around, bla bla bla." He is not a test flyhalf. Get over it.
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
01 Dec 2014, 10:00
#13
01 Dec 2014, 10:00#13
" but because of the angle the support runner came at Lambie would have had to look back 45 degrees to spot him."

"H would have had eyes behind his head to see those 4 support runners"

"The fthree other players were not even in sight ewhen he kicked the ball."

You thick planks! Have you ever played rugby?
1. You have to turn your head to look for support
2. You have peripheral vision
3. Support runners run into the ball at more speed when aligned deeper (so it is usually better if they are not seen, but HEARD
4. If you can see a support runner when you look ahead, they are either too flat, or ahead of you
5. Communication: Support runners SHOULD call continuously, so that the ball carrier is aware of their position at all times
6. You play towards your support
7. When you make a break and is in the open space, with a defender some distance ahead, you slow down for your support

He had the time to slow down. He had the time to turn his head. The ball could have gone to one of a number of players and he even would have had the time to select which one based on the one defender between the four support runners.

The kick was stupid and rushed. He was in a panic and did not do the basics one would expect from a club level back-line player.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
01 Dec 2014, 10:07
#14
01 Dec 2014, 10:07#14

The troof, or should I say The deluded.


How far back would you like a player to look when he is running at full tilt?


Reinach should have communicated.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2014, 10:49
#15
01 Dec 2014, 10:49#15
 Has the poor Trroth Fairy lost the plot again in that case?
"You have peripheral vision"
Would that apply if a player is running about 7 meters behind you cathing up as hapeened i this case? Another absolutely stupid comment was expected from the Trooth Fairy. 
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
01 Dec 2014, 11:26
#16
01 Dec 2014, 11:26#16
 Uhm, For Mr. Stoopid...

And if you add the peripheral vision to the turning of the head and add the turning of the eyes to look for support... (which you are apparently unable to do)....


For biltongbek

"Reinach should have communicated. "


Did I not say that?

"5. Communication: Support runners SHOULD call continuously, so that the ball carrier is aware of their position at all times"

The fact is that unless you are aiming to run straight trough and score, you first need to look for support... If you are running at full tilt and find yourself in the open, but with a defender or defenders some distance ahead. Step 1 is to slow down and look for support. It is basic primary school stuff... I was in fact VERY kind when I said "club level".
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
01 Dec 2014, 12:07
#17
01 Dec 2014, 12:07#17
 The kick was an obvious bad error of judgement, even if he had taken the tackle with the support to the left he would have done much better.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
01 Dec 2014, 12:21
#18
01 Dec 2014, 12:21#18
 I agree the kick was poor, I don't agree on he should have seen the support runner.
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
01 Dec 2014, 12:38
#19
01 Dec 2014, 12:38#19
I think our flyhalve stocks are actually looking really good. Still a bit behind NZ but then compare to the rest of the world we are pretty much ahead. 
I think in Lambie, Pollard and Goosen we have some really good young talent that can serve us well. 
Lambie proofed his worth against England where played the entire game. You can't just blame Lambie for poor form. The welsh stood up to the flat balls from the flyhalf and employed a rush defence. Lambie couldn't have passed as the receivers were to stationary, had he passed, we could have conceded a try through intercept. 
I agree that his tactical kicking wasn't on song. Especially when you kick straight to the full back and not going for space or getting chasers on the ball.
Ireland and Wales proved that the boks are prone to tactical kicking. Wales did really well to drop the ball in the corner by putting pressure and allowing for the boks to RUN the ball out. I think we did it right once. 
Then you have Irelands Connor Murray who is an great exponent for just lobbing the ball over a ruck into the corner and allowing for a winger to run onto it. Habana got complete caught out of position. 
I think its the boks tactics and the fact that we have thrown away our tactical kicking game. 
We really need to find the right balance. Previously we didn't want to play with the ball and just gave away possession and when we do try play with ball in hand we get carried away. 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
01 Dec 2014, 13:06
#20
01 Dec 2014, 13:06#20
 
Lambie isn't the one that cost us the match.

We were pathetic across the board.

From scrum penalties against Coenie to turning ball over at will ... shoddy handling, bad decision making and not having telepathic abilities to see and hear where the supposed support is.

Lambie is the best 10 for the world cup and having a green inexperienced Pollard on the bench is great.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2014, 13:12
#21
01 Dec 2014, 13:12#21
 The Trooth Fairy is really stupid - slow down in the run and  look for support also allows the defence to catch up.  If Lambie dared to do that - he would be criticized by the same Fairy for being stupid.   He did what he thouught best under the circumstances - but if you listen to this Morne  Steyn groupie - you have to be as deluded as the Fairy is to understand the reasoning in this case.  Loony bin stuff. 
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
01 Dec 2014, 13:29
#22
01 Dec 2014, 13:29#22
 Good post Kingkorn, I agree with your thoughts
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
01 Dec 2014, 16:07
#23
01 Dec 2014, 16:07#23
Thanks biltongbek. Are guys are to process trained and don't always think on the field. 
One of NZ key tactics is to try keep the ball away from the line-out. I witness this at Ellis park this year when we had a really good clearance, but notice Kieran Read hair up he field to get back into position to catch the ball. The kiwis work rate was phenomenal. 
Are guys just wants to walk up to the line-out because oom Victor want's his moment in the air. 
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
01 Dec 2014, 16:07
#24
01 Dec 2014, 16:07#24
Thanks biltongbek. Are guys are to process trained and don't always think on the field. 
One of NZ key tactics is to try keep the ball away from the line-out. I witness this at Ellis park this year when we had a really good clearance, but notice Kieran Read hair up he field to get back into position to catch the ball. The kiwis work rate was phenomenal. 
Are guys just wants to walk up to the line-out because oom Victor want's his moment in the air. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Dec 2014, 17:06
#25
01 Dec 2014, 17:06#25
Lambie made at least five crucial mistakes I documented above....all effectively 25 metre mistakes.  Twenty five metres  because thats what possession is worth...a rolling kick into touch trades possession for 25 metres. There were more, but let's take those. That adds up to 125 metres to Wales in a match where they gained in total  235 metres.  A partial list of Lambie mistakes adds up to more than half the metres Wales gained ball in hand.
He was a disaster for our cause.

I hope Lambie does play a full S15 at flyhalf, because in the S15 you can't hide. A few chip kicks won't cut it. By the end of that tournament, as in 2013, the inadequacies will be readily apparent. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2014, 20:03
#26
01 Dec 2014, 20:03#26
 Mozart
Balls in huge quantity here.   I on the other hand hope thjat Morne Steyn - your hero gets a few startoing games for Stade Francais.
And then who would yoiu want the Sharks to play at 10?   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Dec 2014, 21:48
#27
01 Dec 2014, 21:48#27
Actually on reflection I understated it. That horrible under thrown pass from Lambie to Willie had him trapped by two Welsh players and a penalty resulted....so it was 30 metres plus change of possession.....worth about 55 metres.

And if you want to see a replica of that pass, look at Lambie to Peterson  against Italy , which cost 7 points. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2014, 21:57
#28
01 Dec 2014, 21:57#28
 Mozart
As per normal you misses half of what happens on the field of play - that pass In the Italian test of Lambie -  similar to one made by Le Roux - was intended for Matfield who opted out - not going forward to catch it.   That is the problem with Matfield moonlighting in the backline - he disrupt totally the flow of the game.  
 Willie in fact shouted at Matfield - one could clearly see that in the video - when he repeated the Lambie pass cop out.      
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
01 Dec 2014, 22:00
#29
01 Dec 2014, 22:00#29
He often gets players into trouble with poor passing. He did it against England too, when he set Serfontein up with a slow floating pass that had him mauled backwards just outside the English 22. Lambie's distribution skills are lacking. I bemoan Goosen's inadequacies but at least he can shoot a quick pass off both hands. Everything Lambie does is at a snail's pace. Well, that's five years and counting in that weary quest for Lambie's breakout game. So far this year, his best contribution was against Australia, where he ran into open space with three feeble Aussie defenders looking like poor Playstation 1 A.I. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Dec 2014, 18:40
#30
22 Dec 2014, 18:40#30
So OOm the whole string...point out where I blamed Lambie for not passing.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Dec 2014, 19:02
#31
22 Dec 2014, 19:02#31
 BS Bertie at it again.And he is supported by letallbemrons.    If there are flyhalfs whose distributions skills are atrpocious - look no futrther than Morne and Francois Steyn.  
There was virtually no space av ailable when Lambie got a top timed pass from Reinch to score the try against the Aussies - the story about space is BS in extreme.   Incidentally Lambie scored  the last try in the Super 15 game on 15 February 2014 - where th circumstances were basically the same.   
I love the terminology - if Lambie broke through tackles - it is because the defenders make weak tackles - that says it all.   

  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Dec 2014, 19:06
#32
22 Dec 2014, 19:06#32
I repeat where did I blame Lambie for not passing?  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Dec 2014, 07:02
#33
23 Dec 2014, 07:02#33
 What is being said "about where did I blame Lambie for not passing"?   Go back to your first comments after the test and then tell us all the truth.   The above was selected two days afterwards - in an thread dealing only peripherally with that test.  So quote your comments on the thread specifically dealing with the Wales test and you will find your answer there.
 
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