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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Kolbe ‘red’

The Kolbe ‘red’

Started by Mozart14 REPLIES1,296 VIEWS· 01 Aug 2021, 16:41
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Aug 2021, 16:41
#1
01 Aug 2021, 16:41#1

This was Nigel Owen’s take:


You start at red and then you work down on mitigating circumstances," said Owens.

"The only circumstances are whether Biggar and Curry have shielded Murray and affected Kolbe's line of sight?

"But they do not do that and there is no mitigation here - Kolbe has enough time to change what he is doing. The onus is on Kolbe to be aware of the man in the air."

While Owens believes it should have been a red card, the fact that Murray stuck out his arm to prevent himself from landing on his neck, probably saved the Springbok flyer.

…….

My own reaction as I saw it happen was ‘it’s a red card’. We have seen that time and again with the clear rule that you have to be aware of the man in the air.


My strong suspicion is the Erasmus rant saved Cheslin….O’Keeffe clearly was looking to avoid controversy and the video ref was looking to return to the fold.


…..


But having said that a red would have been a terrible outcome. I despise the 14 vs 15 contests and this  rule is one of many dubious rules in rugby, it asks too much of the player. Unless it’s a deliberate taking out of the player, a clash of players both going for the ball should not be a red. 


With a red the best team would not have won the day…and the whole contest and the series would have been compromised. The fault is in the rule.


I should also add Itoje and Curry behaved like thugs after  the incident, ganging up and threatening Kolbe. The ugly face of English rugby we see again and again.


CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
01 Aug 2021, 16:47
#2
01 Aug 2021, 16:47#2
Moz When you dig our heels in, you don’t sop hey. That was not a red. He was looking directly at the ball. Though had the lions landed badly, no doubt the red would have changed it to a red card.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Aug 2021, 16:49
#3
01 Aug 2021, 16:49#3

I’m quoting the most experienced ref in the game…if that’s digging my heels in, guilty as charged.

Read what I wrote again.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
01 Aug 2021, 16:57
#4
01 Aug 2021, 16:57#4

My gut says red too...unfortunately...

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
01 Aug 2021, 17:03
#5
01 Aug 2021, 17:03#5

I'm still of the opinion that a red card should only ever be issued for deliberate foul play. But of course that's my opinion and Owens as a ref would know how the law applies. Not sure though how in the heat of the moment a player is supposed to both watch the ball in the air and be aware of the players converging on the ball and what they're doing - the guy had been airborne for a split second when he and Kolbe collided - I don't think Kolbe could have pulled out of that collision even if he had seen the other guy jumping. Wonder if Owens has been in a situation like that.

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
01 Aug 2021, 17:09
#6
01 Aug 2021, 17:09#6

I guess my point is: getting a red for a player jumping towards you when fielding a kick while you are also advancing towards the ball and his contact with you upends him in the air...that's harsh and almost 100% beyond your control. No human being can arrest their momentum that fast.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Aug 2021, 17:12
#7
01 Aug 2021, 17:12#7
-/
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Aug 2021, 17:13
#8
01 Aug 2021, 17:13#8

‘We got a killer offer on an incredible wine: the award-winning North Coast Red from E. Gordon Kolbe. That means we can offer it to you at an unbelievable price.




Definitely a ‘red’…..hahaha. I agree with your foul play point Pakie….but I also believe another sub should be allowed on, to keep a 15 to 15 man contest.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
01 Aug 2021, 18:19
#9
01 Aug 2021, 18:19#9

Looking firstly at the ball or not, Kolbe knew there was a player in front of him and knew he was taking him out of the air. It's that simple. It was needlessly reckless. He was lucky not to be red carded. He should have been red carded. I argued the same thing in 2009 when Giteau took Du Preez out. Honesty didn't prevail then either. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Aug 2021, 18:29
#10
01 Aug 2021, 18:29#10
It should never be a red given Kolbe never took his eyes off the ball. But the letter of the law requires a red It’s fucking ridiculous
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Aug 2021, 19:02
#11
01 Aug 2021, 19:02#11
Another Dave rant …..always angry and never uncertain.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
01 Aug 2021, 20:15
#12
01 Aug 2021, 20:15#12

Is it really about whether you take your eyes off the ball?

If that the case then it seems really dumb because it means you can pretty much always run someone's feet out from under them while they're in the air and as long as you're watching the ball then it doesn't matter if you cause them to come down on their neck. 

I can play some pretty intricate songs on my guitar without looking down once. Just saying.

I also thought red immediately and was surprised it w as yellow.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Aug 2021, 23:21
#13
01 Aug 2021, 23:21#13
I’m not ranting I’m just agreeing with Pakie - reds should only be awarded for intentional foul play but unfortunately the letter of the law says otherwise which is rubbish
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,233 posts
01 Aug 2021, 23:29
#14
01 Aug 2021, 23:29#14
The referee said that Kolbe lost the battle of space in the air, meaning the other player had secured the ball before Kolbe made contact. If Kolbe had made contact with the ball first, it would not have been any card. 


A certain yellow, and fortunate not to be red. 
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
01 Aug 2021, 23:37
#15
01 Aug 2021, 23:37#15

There was also no way for Kolbe to extract himself or avoid contact once the player had secured the ball because by then they were a foot apart. Players should be aware yes, but players also cannot bend the laws of physics.

— END OF THREAD —

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