The pecking order for Bok number 6

I thought I woul dclear up the current confusion on this issue.

In pole position is Schalk Burger 2011 player of the the year - playing at 6!  Anybody with another opinion is wrong. The only question is will he recover completely from injury.

In second spot is Coetzee

Third is Louw.

Fourth is Deon Fourie who has been outstanding demonstrating strength over the ball unmatched by Brussouw. (Completely outplaying Kolisi every time)

Fifth is Brussouw

6th Daniels?

Possibly at 7 is the 101 kg babe in arms (21) Kolisi.

There could be some dispute where Louw fits in etc but otherwise this has to be the correct order.

Why anyone should think Kolisi at 21 and having faded as the season progressed should be a Bok is mind boggling. Its like ou snapster arguing that Du Toit is ready!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only young forward worthy of a Bok spot in my opinion is the 22 year old Elstadt. At 118 kg, mobile and able to cover 7 and lock he is the ideal bench player. He has also had 2 full years of super 15. He has a nice agressive attitude and get through a lot of work.

 At the moment schalk cannot be Nr 1, No one has seen him play in 6  months. Brussouw is not on Form Kolisi is way better. Flouw is playing across the water(agreed he might be in form) Deon fourie? (yes good player but not a flank) Daniels maybe.... 

Bullshit Kolisi is good enough .

Beeno

I may be entirely wrong about the issue of Burger returning to play international rugby and stated in the past that it is highly unlikely.   However, there can be no argument about him as a player from a performance perspective.   He was always a top class loosie and that would remain so if he is physically able to continue playing.   In essence I would under present circumstances not use him as a 6, but as a 7 - I think the brilliant Marcell Coetzee would continue to be the top no 6.

I do believe that Kolisi could ultimately develop further - but he is not at this stage international material.   He grabbed the opportunity to play for the Stormers the past season and must be given credit for that.   However, in the final few games of Super 15 - he was less effective than previously - hence my comments about future development.

Personally I also like Elstadt as a potential future Springbok loosie - but he needs further time to develop.   I think by 2014 he would probably be our top selection for the number 7 position.

Where I differ from you drastically is on the issue of Du Toit.   He really is special, but I think that he needs further opportunity to develop.  I believe that by August next year he would be selected to play on the bench and ultimately he would replace Bekker as the number 5 lock.   He is speedy enough to play as loosie as well.

You may notice I said nothing about Brussow.   To be quite frank - he is a good player - but to my mind not good enough to play on international level.   He initially was very good and build his reputation as a fetcher - but the fetcher issue has become a problem as the result of the new rules and even McCaw and Pocock recently had to contend with an increasing penalty count against them.   In general Brussow's performances dropped back comparative to the rest of the SA loosies.   In any event there are too many younger loosies coming through the system and they are putting him as a smaller built player at a serious disadvantage.     

Funny this:

"In second spot is Coetzee................."

"Why anyone should think Kolisi at 21........................."

Coetzee DOB: 8 May 1991

Kolisi DOB: 16 June 1991

Ceradyne
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 486 RE: The pecking order for Bok number 6
August 14, 2012, 09:50:48

Funny this:

"In second spot is Coetzee................."

"Why anyone should think Kolisi at 21........................."

Coetzee DOB: 8 May 1991

Kolisi DOB: 16 June 1991

and there really is not much to pick between the two of them, Coetzee maybe pipping it at this stage.

 Dear God. Please help Beeno understand rugby. He constantly talks kak and if it were up to him, the pecking order for Bok number 6 would be in order 1 downwards...Schalk, Vermuelen, Elstadt, Kolisi, Deon Fourie, Jebb Sinclair, Nizaam Carr, Tyrone Holmes, Alistair Coetzee and then maybe some Sharks or Bulls players.... Marcell is Better than anything the Stormers are running at the moment. Hell, Deysel is better than Elstadt too!!!

boklogic

Come now - there is at present NO BULLS loosie I would put anywhere above number 10 as a loosie.   The Potgieters are nowhere near good enough.   Of the younger bunch there are a number of loosies coming through and they are the future potential selections.

boklogic

Come now - there is at present NO BULLS loosie I would put anywhere above number 10 as a loosie.   The Potgieters are nowhere near good enough.   Of the younger bunch there are a number of loosies coming through and they are the future potential selections.

deon fourie better than brussow ?????? good lord beeno how rubbish is your rugby knowledge. burger the first choice number 6 ???? he has shown little to no ball fetching skills since 2004. he is not even sured his place in the stormers setup let alone the national side.

brussow destroyed the british lions on his own and you think a part time hooker player 8th is better than him ????? wow delusion running deep again hey old beeno

i reckon you and the cokeranger aka mister keohane must be really gereat mates. your post is rife of stormers fanboyism. lets be objective. the best players at the moment are not stormers players.

Ek I made it clear tha tthis assessment wasbased on us having a fit and on form Schalk to select. My other two loosies are Alberts and Vermuelen (Needless to say - fit and on form).

 Beeno's rugby knowledge really is thin. A province promoter at best. He lives in the past man. Always making reference to winning the conference, Schalk being Bok player of the year 2011 and Vermuelen being so great. Get over it..This is 2012 now. No one cares what Schalk did last year. We care about the now and years to come. Before I heard of Beeno, I thought there could be no right or wrong answer in a forum. Everyone sees things differently and has different opinions but its safe to say Beeno is just dillusional and plain down wrong. No one ever agrees with him. Im still trying to figure out if he understands the game.

He talks about all these heavy weight players and how the AB's cant match a 940kg pack...Guys like McCaw, Read, Kaino, Retallick, Franks brothers, Woodcock are not small guys..Dreaming man..Brains over braun anyday...

Mike I also rate Du Toit highly and have said as much - but not now. Lets be consistent here. Elstadt has played two seasons at Super 15 level. Next year is his third. Du Toit is  yet to play a season at super 15 level.  I think Du Toit comes on stream 2014 earliest?

I do not want to get into the Brussow topic again - but I read the above discussions and came to the conclusion that something serious is amiss here.   Brussow burst onto th scene three years ago and in accordance with the rules at the time was a very good "fetcher"   Those rules have changed and fetching is nowadays a very dangerous exercise - mostly leading to penalties.   This applies equally to the well-known fetchers of the world - McCaw and Pocok.   to try and win the ball in a maul situation - and then give away a convertable penalty is wrong - and that happens far too frequesntly to the fetchers.  

Meyer is aware of that problem - and he has pointedly ignored Brussow in dealing with his selections.   I do not think that would change and I do not think that Brussow - having given away five convertable penalties in his last 3 Super 15 games - can count on selection under the changed circumstances.

Now back to other components of loosie play.   Brussow is a smallish built guy - but obviously very strong and he can defend well.   However, he is not athletic and cannot contribute anything in line out play.   When he gets the ball in open play he can be dangerous - such as was the case iwhen he scored his lrecent try in Super 15 - he is a strong runner.   But that try was the exception to the rule - he is not a ball-carrier per se.

In repect of all-round loosie play Brussow out of 10 points is most likely 5 or 5.5 out of 10.   That does not make him good enough to compete for selection - sorry to say.

As to Daniel - he has the same built as Brussow - with about double the speed.   He is very athletic and contribute to line out play as well.   Not the type of player that could be used as a fetcher - but as pointed out fetching has a bad name at present.  He has other elements of his game where he is definitely superior to Brussow.   When a game opens up and there is looser play - Daniel pops up regularly and score tries in the process.   Ask the Bulls about that one.

I believe Meyer rates Daniel higher than brussow and is not at all surprised by that.

windpomp must you confuse the issue here. Coetzee is mature beyond his years. Kolisi is not in his class at the moment and probably will not be.

As for illogical bok it seems he is working up to a nervous breakdown. Hahahahahhahahaha

No my list looks very sound. Deon Fourie has played better than Brussouw - no sane person can deny that. Deon looks to have found his niche as a loose forward. Great pace and very strong. Drives the ball up effectively as well. Gets a lot of turn over ball etc. Class act if you like small lose forwards.

muncher I would love to have seen brussouw on the field on his own against the Lions. I know who would have been destroyed. As it was the lions had by some margin the better of the test series even if the scorebaord didnt reflect that.  We won the first half of the first test and we on the backfoot for all the rest. How we won the second test was a miracle really - the Lions were held up over our line about 4 times and dominated at forward completely. Luckies tseries win I have ever seen. Together with a WC win where a over the hill England side was the ONLY side we met ever to have beaten us and the myth of that generation of boks being a great side was established.  Extremely lucky series win against Lions and a hyped world cup win. Such also contributed to the legend of wee victoria - 107 kg!!!

Hahhahahahaha sorry oaks but one has to retain a sense of reality.

Beeno seeing things clearly as always.

lucky to win against the lions ????? are you serious ????

mate with all due respect i dont know what your on about. i dont know what games you watched but the boks fired on all departments. even more pulled a rabbit out of the hat. the boks played well and deserved the win.

the midweek game that the cheetahs had against the lions was another display of how brussow played

muncher the second test win against the British Lions was perhaps the luckiest win I have ever seen. I meran ever.

Seldom have a sid ebeen so domiant and yet still have lost. I do not count our loss against oz in the recent WC as  we were crooked out of that completely by the worst ref display ever seen at international level.

The first test against the Lions was a game of two halves. In the first half our scrum was  rampant due to illegal scrumming techniques. Ou lardy looked like a world beater on the tighthead. Second half our scrum was getting shunted around as one would expect with a hooker at tighthead. Lions dominated in the second half and for the rest of the series. How we won that second test was a marvel of luck.

....and it still doesnt stop...2731 posts later and still no idea or clue about rugby...I am just thankful that I didnt get to read all 2731 posts from Beeno because I would actually be dumber for it.  Yet again someone totally disagreeing with him and for good cause.