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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Raainag stepping issue metric

The Raainag stepping issue metric

Started by Mozart18 REPLIES305 VIEWS· 09 Dec 2014, 17:12
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Dec 2014, 17:12
#1
09 Dec 2014, 17:12#1

So as usual I was accused of bs when I pointed out the problem Raainag has with the pass....far too many steps. Nope all we have to do is select a sprinter at scrummie and all will be well. Unfortunately it wont, because for every time Raainach runs in space he probably passes 50 times....badly.

 

The facts are neatly captured in this 365 piece:

 

 


"One of the ways for a scrumhalf to speed up his passing is by doing so immediately from the ground. When you see a scrumhalf running sideways before throwing the ball at his backs, you know he is destroying future possibilities for he has cannibalised the backs' space. Running sideways may be to bring pressure on himself but it also brings pressure onto those outside of him who now have to catch, deal with pressure and consider their further options.

There were two significant Tests - England vs Australia at Twickenham and Wales vs South Africa in Cardiff. We looked at passes and how many steps the scrumhalf made before passing. (We have not counted steps to avoid a hindrance.)

South Africa's pass-step rate was enormous. It was 43 passes which took 74 steps.
The other three teams' scrumhalves made 153 passes with 64 steps, despite the appearance of Nick White for Australia in the second half who is a stepper.


Despite White the scrumhalves for Wales, Australia and England made a smaller aggregate of steps in over three times as many passes.

It may just be that the South African backs problem is really a scrumhalf problem.

It's not that Cobus Reinach cannot pass straight off the ground. He did so in the match, but it is clearly not a priority, perhaps because it is not a priority for the coaches.

Look at November's scrumhalves and see where you would place Cobus Reinach and Francois Hougaard.

Argentina: Tomás Cubelli, Martín Landajo

Australia: Nick Phipps, Will Genia, Nic White

England: Ben Youngs, Danny Care, Richard Wigglesworth

France: Sébastien Tillous-Borde, Rory Kockott

Ireland: Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan

Italy: Eduardo Gori

New Zealand: Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara, Augustine Pulu

Samoa: Kahn Fortuali'i

Scotland: Greig Laidlaw, Chris Cusiter

Wales: Rhys Webb, Mike Phillips

Then think of South African scrumhalves after World War II and see where you would fit Reinach and Hougaard into that tradition.

Fonnie du Toit, Hansie Oelofse, Popeye Strydom, Tommy Gentles, Dick Lockyear, Piet Uys, Dawie de Villiers, Nelie Smith, Joggie Viljoen, Paul Bayvel, Divan Serfontein, Garth Wright, Joost van der Westhuizen, Bolla Conradie, Enrico Januarie, Fourie du Preez. (This is not a complete list.)

Done thoughtfully, not vindictively or parochially, it could be an interesting exercise.

* When Danie Craven was 20 and had not yet played provincial rugby, he was chosen to as a Springbok to tour under the captaincy of the great flyhalf, Bennie Osler. Before the first time they played together, Craven waited for Osler to talk to him, to give him instructions. Eventually he mustered courage enough to talk to the great man.

Craven said to his captain: "Excuse me, Mr Osler, what are your calls."

Osler, puzzled, said: "What calls?"

Craven: "To tell me when you are going left and right and so on."

Osler: "You just pass the ball in front of me and never above my waist."

In a match if the scrumhalf passed the ball to him above his waist, Osler would shout 'Bliksem!' That is why Craven called his much-loved dog Bliksem."

By Paul Dobson
 

 

 

 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Dec 2014, 18:01
#2
09 Dec 2014, 18:01#2

My son plays 10 and he hates it when the reserve 9 comes on as he takes steps before he passes. Not sure why some 9's do it.......its poor coaching really. Simply instruct the 9 not to take the steps......but obviously Meyer has no issue with Reinach taking steps

 

Its obvious that every step takes seconds away from the 10  

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,290 posts
09 Dec 2014, 18:13
#3
09 Dec 2014, 18:13#3
I doubt any coach would tell their scrumhalf to take steps before passing. 
Only scrummies that are not natural passers of the ball will take steps.
The step that is acceptable, is a step backwards w hen the rucks are messy to give some space to make a clearing pass.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,290 posts
09 Dec 2014, 18:13
#4
09 Dec 2014, 18:13#4
I doubt any coach would tell their scrumhalf to take steps before passing. 
Only scrummies that are not natural passers of the ball will take steps.
The step that is acceptable, is a step backwards w hen the rucks are messy to give some space to make a clearing pass.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Dec 2014, 18:36
#5
09 Dec 2014, 18:36#5
Rubbish.....as a coach, I have seen players who run before passing adapt and pass from the base.......running does nothing for a pass.....its about what a player is comfortable with.......its like a different batting technique......you will often find that more attacking minded 9's tend to take a step or two.  
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
09 Dec 2014, 18:55
#6
09 Dec 2014, 18:55#6
What happened to the old dive pass? It was a staple of scrumhalf play when I was still in school. We were also taught that the touching and pass of the ball behind a scrum or ruck was one smooth movement. Dallying with the ball was not tolerated unless you were breaking. Otherwise you just got that thing into the flyhalf's hands as quickly as you could. That's your scrumhalf's job.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Dec 2014, 19:04
#7
09 Dec 2014, 19:04#7

By hitting the deck, it takes the player out of play for seconds, all seconds count.

 

Its like in the old days players were coached to drop when in contact, that has long changed.  

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,290 posts
09 Dec 2014, 19:08
#8
09 Dec 2014, 19:08#8
If a scrumhalf is going to run then they have no choice but to take a step, otherwise they will remain in the same place.
Another reason that a scrumhalf would step would be that they have not yet decided what option they are going to take, or they are waiting for a runner to get into position.
If a scrumhalf knows they are going to pass, why step?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Dec 2014, 19:53
#9
09 Dec 2014, 19:53#9

Its a habit.....very often Raainach and Hougaard haven't decided what they are going to do and take a few steps to clear their minds. In the meantime your backs have 4+ less metres of space(the gap is being closed from both sides) before the defensive wall hits them. 

 

Stepping and passing to anybody except a forward is a crime

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Dec 2014, 20:22
#10
09 Dec 2014, 20:22#10
 Mozart
What about F ourie du Preez - he often taes steps as well - only slower ones I may add.   Same can be said about Pienaar as well.   Why only criticize Reinach for that - while it happened all the time in the casse of other players as well?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Dec 2014, 20:47
#11
09 Dec 2014, 20:47#11

Raainach is way worse than any international scrummie out there....that's why OOM. Are you getting it old toppie?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Dec 2014, 00:21
#12
10 Dec 2014, 00:21#12
 Then I assume Du Preez is not an international scrummie enymore.   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Dec 2014, 00:31
#13
10 Dec 2014, 00:31#13
Assume what you like Oom, you usually do.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Dec 2014, 00:49
#14
10 Dec 2014, 00:49#14
Fact is quite a few 9s take steps before passing.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
10 Dec 2014, 07:23
#15
10 Dec 2014, 07:23#15

Kevin Luiters doesn't step, Will Genia steps all the time, Aaron SMith does as well on occasion, Phipps steps.


Unless Mozart wants to suggest others drift and Reinach steps.  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Dec 2014, 07:31
#16
10 Dec 2014, 07:31#16
Look Biltong, I don't have to suggest anything, Paul Dobson did the hard work.... our scrummies take almost two steps per pass, whereas the opposition need less than half a step per pass. 
We have two technically challenged scrummies. If you are looking for reasons our backs seem to have no space, start right there.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Dec 2014, 09:04
#17
10 Dec 2014, 09:04#17
 "It's not that Cobus Reinach cannot pass straight off the ground. He did so in the match, but it is clearly not a priority, perhaps because it is not a priority for the coaches".Problem here is said to be the coach not the scummie.
How much did this effect the games in South Africa? But I agree the ball must go out to the backline as quickly as possible.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Dec 2014, 10:15
#18
10 Dec 2014, 10:15#18
 Basically I think thatthe problem lies with our coaches - not the players.   In cases near their tryline - Reinach in particular pass the ball quickly and accurately to the flyhalf or full back for a relieving kick.   
I am going to go further and refer to Meyer and Du Preez  in particular and the Bulls type of play.   In the case of the Bulls the ball mostly goes back to the forwards in years gone past.  For that to happen the Scrummie - and in particular Du Preez had to run a few steps to bring the forwards in line to receve the balls passed to them.
Now take the case in the Wales test.   Reinach pased the ball 50 times - only 20 of which went to the flyhalf.  There was a few passes to other backline players - but the vast majority of the other 30 passes went to the forwards - in which he had to take a few steps to make it possible.    This is basiclly old-style Bulls play - rarely used by other teams in Super 15.   
The question seems to be - did Reinach play accorrding to instructions in that case?  I am sure he did.   Please note that this is in essence the Bulls playing style - it has been such over thepast decade and the main exponent havebeen Fourie du Preez - so where did Reinach pick upthatone deficiency he should cut out of his game?  
   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Dec 2014, 10:15
#19
10 Dec 2014, 10:15#19
 Duplication
— END OF THREAD —

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