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FORUM / RUGBY /  'The rising importance of Frans Steyn'

'The rising importance of Frans Steyn'

Started by Mozart46 REPLIES749 VIEWS· 20 Aug 2019, 02:48
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Aug 2019, 02:48
#1
20 Aug 2019, 02:48#1
The favourite source of many of the Stephanistas, Rob Houwing opines: Comment: Rob Houwing, Sport24 chief writer Cape Town - A glance at his game time over the course of the 2019 Test season so far does relatively little to back up the argument with any force. But it seems increasingly apparent that Frans Steyn - a sometimes controversial, much-debated figure in SA rugby’s recent past - will be a vital component of the broad Springbok plans for the looming World Cup. I know I will consider it a bombshell (my jaw will rapidly drop, whether enforced by explosives or not) if the seasoned figure, who appears to be suitably on-side with Rassie Erasmus’s immediate goals for the national side, is omitted from the Bok tournament party of 31 to be revealed next Monday. Steyn’s going to go ... isn’t he? The reason I am so confident he will be on the plane to Japan isn’t so much about his value to the “first XV”, at least as things stand: he may still not yet be deemed part of that equation, especially with Damian de Allende the reasonably solid top-pick incumbent of the inside centre berth, which is still also Steyn’s most ideal station. But it has everything to do with the re-emerging desirability of the 32-year-old as a versatile backline factor, especially in a group touring a long way from home turf and not necessarily able to summon emergency replacements with any great haste. Those with slightly more cynical thoughts around the much-travelled but agreeably streetwise customer may point to the limited Bok activity so far in the year that Steyn has had … and all off the splinters. It began with 28 minutes as a second-half replacement for Andre Esterhuizen against Australia in Johannesburg, another 25 (on for De Allende) against New Zealand in Wellington, 15 (De Allende again pulled off) against Argentina at Salta, and finally 25 (for Esterhuizen) in the follow-up against the Pumas on Saturday. So the big unit hasn’t even had a full half of action yet. But he could also be described as some sort of mounting talisman as a Bok reserve, considering that his last seven Test appearances in that capacity have seen the Boks unbeaten (six wins and a draw); the sequence includes three caps in the 3-0 home disposal of France in 2017, when Allister Coetzee was still head coach. It just seems as if all that experience – nobody else in the Bok ranks at RWC 2019 will boast as much in time-passage terms, considering that Steyn is lone survivor as a 2007 Webb Ellis Cup winner – meaningfully helps the Springboks to nail down matches in their favour at the vital business end of them. I still suspect there is a chance, in Japan, that he will force his way into the starting mix; he is just too good a rugby player not to push forcefully for that status again, especially if his Test-level conditioning, already improving through lengthy exposure to the Bok camp of late, continues its gradual upward trajectory. But events at Loftus at the weekend may well have conspired, in many respects, to only underline Steyn’s role as a utility presence extraordinaire for South Africa in Japan. In short, he may be now even more assuring cover for three Bok berths: in midfield (where, at a push, he can even be used at 13), at fullback and flyhalf. That is because the latter two positions have an increased likelihood of being reasonably economically-staffed from a depth point of view at the tournament, whilst Andre Esterhuizen is at risk of not travelling as immediate understudy to De Allende at No 12. The Sharks player was commendably rugged against the Pumas in the messy 24-18 weekend victory engineered by a largely second-string Bok line-up, but again more subtle elements were largely absent from his game and Steyn, I fancy, is now the rosier prospect to cover that base behind De Allende. Meanwhile, Warrick Gelant’s up-and-down sort of showing in the last line of defence in Pretoria also raises the possibility that he won’t earn a RWC ticket as back-up to Willie le Roux, instead leaving cover there in the shape of Cheslin Kolbe (albeit superb in a wing capacity of late) … and Steyn. The last-named player has made 14 starts - among his total of 60 caps - for the country before at No 15, and often with aplomb, even if the most recent was at the now distant 2011 World Cup against Wales in Wellington, and lack of pace these days for the berth would be an issue. On the plus side, however, his safety and sheer physical presence under a high ball are beyond dispute, and don’t forget that penchant for monster relief-kicks or banging over the odd penalty from 55 or even 60 metres out, sometimes clearing the crossbar with plenty to spare. Then there’s the flyhalf cover to consider as well, though: the Boks are expected to take along only two specialists in that massive, tactical string-pulling area of play, Handre Pollard and Elton Jantjies, even if both are in reassuringly sprightly form. But if one of them suddenly went down for any length of time, there’s an immediate problem over quantity of back-up. Once again, Steyn would seem the best temporary figure to plug a hole as he has operated there before for the Boks, either as starter or substitute. Still want Frans Steyn NOT to make the squad cut, anyone? And this from another favourite source Nick Mallett: "I took a look and apart from S'bu Nkosi, Jesse Kriel, Elton Jantjies, Coetzee - who was good for the very short time he was on the field - and maybe Frans Steyn when he came on, I didn't think anyone else really put their hand up. "Both locks (RG Snyman and Lood de Jager) were quiet, but it was one of those games where there wasn’t any continuity and they’re both good with continuity so I think they'll go to the World Cup." ..... It seems all the favourite fake news sources and the great rugby brain Eraser Head all favour the inclusion of Frans Steyn.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Aug 2019, 03:03
#2
20 Aug 2019, 03:03#2

If J-Raz is adamant that Andre stays at home, and intends to start Damian as our first choice 12, we better hope Frans is on the bench. At least Am looks set to get ahead of Kriel, even if it's because of his skin colour. J-Raz making life difficult for himself. 

Lügnerin habitually ignores any source which conflicts with his own "facts". It is only deemed credible if it bends the knee before his fanciful tall tales. Such as Jean. He was stupid when he said Pollard replacing Damian at 12 will see the Boks get the ball to circulate through the backs better. When Jean made an erroneous call on midfield defence, it was irrefutable proof that Andre was a failure. The wriggly wee wirm squirming out of danger. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Aug 2019, 05:25
#3
20 Aug 2019, 05:25#3
My guess is Eraser will play the Tractor and Am against the ABs....if it works great. If it doesn't he has some cover to select the pairing he really prefers, Tractor and Kriel, for the matches we have to win. Bialystock and Bloom so far have a 7win/8 loss record, but stunningly Eraser and many on here are dead sure this is our best option.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 06:54
#4
20 Aug 2019, 06:54#4

As a combibation?   How was the figures under Erasmus - you cannot held them accountab le since Meyer had no game plan for backline players and Coetzee no idea about coaching?  

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
20 Aug 2019, 07:38
#5
20 Aug 2019, 07:38#5

Have to say I was more convinced before the last Argentina game. The ease with which the Argie 12 broke past Steyn given a little space to do so doesn't bode well.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 07:46
#6
20 Aug 2019, 07:46#6

Pakie

Steyn never was a good defender anyway -  easily out-paced,  I do not think that Steyn would add value to the squad at all,   Wish  Erasmus saw the light and call up Willemse to the squad instead,  

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 Aug 2019, 09:52
#7
20 Aug 2019, 09:52#7

Steyn would be a solid bench option, but I don't see him  starting against a top team unless there are injuries. 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Aug 2019, 10:09
#8
20 Aug 2019, 10:09#8

So what did i tell you. Allende is the best inside center and there are doubts about Steyn. Beeno gets it 100 % correct!

Apparently Steyn conditioning is improving, well it has to for him to be selected. Pakie is right to be concerned.





AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Aug 2019, 10:24
#9
20 Aug 2019, 10:24#9

Damian is not our best 12. Not even close. We are being short-changed. I'd rather have Frans at 12 than a Damian whose best performance was to scrap in a lackluster test. It's absolutely stunning that Rassie is let off the hook so easily. Even more so that Damian has survived so long. Andrè backs the Rassie game plan, he also has better skills, better vision, better positioning, better temperament and reads play well. There is virtually nothing Damian does that Andre doesn't do better. Once upon a time I'd have said Damian was better at winning a turnover or penalty at the breakdown, but this hasn't been a common occurrence for some time. In any case, Andre is the better cleaner and counter rucker. That big boot is another weapon in his arsenal.

The most remarkable aspect of Damian's game is the fact that he has no feel for what is going on around him. The shape and flow of the opposition, where the pressure is stemming from or the movement of his teammates. At this level of the game, with such experience, it's something of a miracle. He should have developed something over time. Andrè, his junior is the player who has developed all of these attributes. He is the more instinctive and proactive thinker. 

If there is something I abore more than all other things, it's mediocrity being rewarded. This is the very essence of South African culture. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 10:35
#10
20 Aug 2019, 10:35#10

Still more Idiot Speak - why don't you just take time and learn something about the game of rugby before you spout garbage on site?   LMAO  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 10:35
#11
20 Aug 2019, 10:35#11

Still more Idiot Speak - why don't you just take time and learn something about the game of rugby before you spout garbage on site?   LMAO 

Sure you would prefer Steyn at 12  in respect of whom -

*  a top coach said clearly - he is no center at all;

*  was he worst center playing in Super Rugby for 2014 and 2015 and whose contract was terminated by SARU being unplayable on test level; and

*  Montpellier 'decided to contract better players in Goosen and Serfontein to play at 10 and 12, us him sometimes at full back and then refused to renew his contract with them because of his incompetence.

Great record and coming from you total BS like Morne being on par with Carter, Mohoje with  McCaw and Kirchner better than Folau. 

Idiocy supreme - so shut up or start writing sensible contributions and not I diot Speak ones,  

.  

  

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Aug 2019, 10:44
#12
20 Aug 2019, 10:44#12

Like the art of the nose ball off a lineout? 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 10:55
#13
20 Aug 2019, 10:55#13

At least I am not a total idiot like you.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Aug 2019, 11:15
#14
20 Aug 2019, 11:15#14

"Great record and coming from you total BS like Morne being on par with Carter, Mohoje with  McCaw and Kirchner better than Folau."

Go quote me on those. In fact, I challenge you to find any post where I compare Morné and Carter aside from volume of kicks. Now, is this just another case of the resident Pinocchio lying or does he actually have something? The clock is ticking. Run wee wirm... 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 11:45
#15
20 Aug 2019, 11:45#15

Listen those were all from posts you made under another of your previous user names    You betrayed your user name by referring to Folau as useless in the past year,   

And there are evidence of support for exposing your total idiocy by other members as well iro Kirchner and  Folau, as well as Mohoje and  McCaw and Morne Steyn and Carter, ,   Happy Liars D ay to you.  LMAO  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 11:45
#16
20 Aug 2019, 11:45#16

Duplicate

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Aug 2019, 11:58
#17
20 Aug 2019, 11:58#17

Another lie to your name. I said Folau was useless last year? Go find these quotes. 

  1. Morné is better than Carter
  2. Kirchner is better than Folau post 2013 RC
  3. Mohoje is a better player than McCaw
There go and find these quotes. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 12:10
#18
20 Aug 2019, 12:10#18

2 Renewal in 2018 when you repeated the junk.   We will leave finding your quotes to CC and Rooinek,  So guilty as charged coming up.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 12:10
#19
20 Aug 2019, 12:10#19

Duplication

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 12:10
#20
20 Aug 2019, 12:10#20

Duplication

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Aug 2019, 12:38
#21
20 Aug 2019, 12:38#21

Produce. You brought it up. You stated it was easily found. Now show me what you've got. Skulking away now? 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 12:48
#22
20 Aug 2019, 12:48#22

I am not going to waste time on finding previous idiotic posts.  I stan y my meory of the Folau  idiocy and the further comments on Mohoje and Dear Morne,  They confoired what you wrote and I stated above,    

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Aug 2019, 12:55
#23
20 Aug 2019, 12:55#23

Turbo reverse. How predictable. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 13:18
#24
20 Aug 2019, 13:18#24

The truth hurts - eh Moron!!!  LMAO

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 13:18
#25
20 Aug 2019, 13:18#25

The truth hurts - eh Moron!!!  LMAO

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Aug 2019, 13:31
#26
20 Aug 2019, 13:31#26

What truth? You brought nothing to the table. Exposed again. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 14:04
#27
20 Aug 2019, 14:04#27

I told you the truth and you are as per normal attacking the truth.   He even lies about jhat I wrote above -  I said on par and he said better, What an idiot we have here,   Fact is that si what he stated in the past - so caught out again.LMAO

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Aug 2019, 14:12
#28
20 Aug 2019, 14:12#28

On par or better, I said none of those. Now produce the quotes. We all know it's another lie from the creation of Geppetto's guilt-ridden hands. Oh the sleepless nights he suffers. Dr Auge has him heavily medicated, the poor fellow can't live with himself. I can't say I blame him. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 15:55
#29
20 Aug 2019, 15:55#29

No it was not a lie or lies,   You really said somethin about the 6 players mentioned and neither Dave, nor CC. nor Rooinek, nor myself missed out on your postings,   They were there,    When I told you in 2018 about the similarity in comments that you under another user name made in 2013 you quickly enough came up with the 2013  posting.  Then the BS follows when I pointed out that the Springboks must be careful about kicking high balls against Folau the same BS followed as as the case in 2013.    

The other two postings I also remember - but was actually mentioned by Rooinek and CC     

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 15:55
#30
20 Aug 2019, 15:55#30

No it was not a lie or lies,   You really said somethin about the 6 players mentioned and neither Dave, nor CC. nor Rooinek, no myself missed out on your postings,   They were there,    When I told you in 2018 about the similarity in comments that you under another user name made in 2013 you quickly enough came up with the 2013  posting.  Then the BS follows when I pointed out that the Springboks must be careful about kicking high balls against Folau the same BS followed as as the case in 2013.    

The other two postings I also remember - but was actually brought mentioned by Rooinek and CC     

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Aug 2019, 15:58
#31
20 Aug 2019, 15:58#31

Feeble. So when all is said and done, you just elaborated on the truth, until you had another lie. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 16:12
#32
20 Aug 2019, 16:12#32

What other lie BSter?   I keepa way from lies - yo u specialize in same.       

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 Aug 2019, 17:21
#33
20 Aug 2019, 17:21#33

"*  Montpellier 'decided to contract better players in Goosen and Serfontein to play at 10 and 12, us him sometimes at full back and then refused to renew his contract with them because of his incompetence.  "

Bullshit. It was Frans Steyn's decision no to extend his contract. 

Steyn set for homecoming in 2020

"The 31-year-old has been plying his trade in France since 2016, having established himself as an integral member of the Montpellier side over the past few seasons. It’s Steyn’s second stint in France, with the World Cup winner also previously featuring for Racing between 2009 and 2012.

Although Steyn is still playing at the top of his game, SARugbymag.co.za has learned that he has recently purchased a property in Bloemfontein, with the aim of returning to the Free State along with his family once his current contract with Montpellier concludes at the end of June 2020.

Steyn was schooled at the revered rugby school Grey College, and although he represented Free State at junior level, he joined the Sharks as a 19-year-old, where he quickly became one of the most highly-regarded young players in South African rugby.

.

.

.

"However, it’s understood that he always harboured hopes of one day returning to Bloemfontein, and to perhaps even finishing his career in a Cheetahs jersey. Having already purchased a home in Bloemfontein, Steyn and his wife will also have the opportunity for their three young daughters to be schooled in South Africa.  "

.

.

"Although it is believed that there are no advanced negotiations taking place at this early stage, it’s understood that the powers that be at the Cheetahs are aware of Steyn’s impending return to Bloemfontein.  "

Montpellier. Frans Steyn, une dernière année et puis s’en va ? (Montpellier. Frans Steyn, one last year and then leave?)

Translated text:

"Three-quarters of Montpellier, Frans Steyn, could leave the Herault at the end of his contract in June 2020. It seems very likely that he returned to the country, South Africa. "

"The adventure of Frans Steyn (56 caps) in Herault could stop soon. The three-quarters versatile has a contract with the Montpellier club until June 2020, but everything seems to indicate that he will not sign an extension.  "

.

.

"Steyn is reported to have recently acquired a property on the Bloemfontein side, and the goal would be to reside there with her family. The player would not have the idea of living away from his family, including three girls. Between Montpellier and Bloemfontein, we must make a choice and it should be on the side of South Africa. "

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Aug 2019, 17:49
#34
20 Aug 2019, 17:49#34
We all have players we like and players we dislike. Thinking posters support their arguments with specific examples and statistics. Often there is a lot to learn by a frame by frame analysis of specific incidents......Pakie's help in this regard is very valuable. Emotional unthinking posters deny the evidence right in front of their eyes for sweeping unsupported claims....which don't contribute to anything but bickering.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 18:45
#35
20 Aug 2019, 18:45#35

Now here we have another newspaper reports,  However, the situation is very different in fact,  The contracted Serfontein  two years ago - there was anything bar to find a decent center to replace Steyn,   Then started to buy out the Goosen contract because their first choice flyhalf flopped and Steyn was at best a liability rather than an asset.  

So what happened to Steyn before it became known that he is leaving,   He never played at flyhalf or center again other than when a number of injuries needed real change.  When he did play he played at full back.

Since negotiations started on replacements started more than a year before the Steyn contract would end.  A logical question is why would the above have happened if their was any ontention of a contract extension for Steyn.

Diplomatically a nice departure message in the media is called for - it is a face saver for the affected contracted player or coach and could spare the contractor claims for dismissal.  Reminds me of the Meyer shenanigans in 2015, namely resig n when it became clear there is no change of contract renewal.        

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 18:49
#36
20 Aug 2019, 18:49#36

Nice try - just use comprehensive and comparable stats  and not selected stats.   The one who cannot identify quality players based on actual performance is in fact not me     

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 18:49
#37
20 Aug 2019, 18:49#37

Nice try - just use comprehensive and comparable stats  and not selected stats.   The one who cannot identify quality players based on actual performance is in fact not me     

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Aug 2019, 18:52
#38
20 Aug 2019, 18:52#38
Frans showed in that last game why he is not a starter for Montpellier and why he should be nowhere near the Bok side A hasbeen for past 5 years
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Aug 2019, 18:59
#39
20 Aug 2019, 18:59#39

Frans showed more in his brief moments than Damian has in his entire test career. That isn't even an exaggeration. If you disagree, go through his entire 2018 test season and find these "class act" contributions! 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Aug 2019, 19:11
#40
20 Aug 2019, 19:11#40

No Dave according to Mozart, AO and  Pakie he was brilliant in the game on Satirday.  At least  they think so - the thinking rugby supporters actually knows otherwise.  

I thought Steyn was brilliant initially -  but by 2012 already he was not the player he used to be and it became clear that he was not a test player anymore.   Early promise and early deterioration as well.   Why that happened - we can guess based in his serious overweight problem when he came back from France - but the exact reasons can be left with the player himself. 

AO refer to his brief moments - bit forgets about the charge down kicks, missed tackles and largely unsuccessful carries,  That he preferred not to see - so he did not see it,       .         

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