BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Dec 2014, 12:06#2
Mike if Frans hasnt shown he is the athlete of old he will not succeed as a centre. Great pity for sure but that is the reality.Will JP be available?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Dec 2014, 12:36#3
Beeno
JP only from about April and then he could also end up on the bench - he lost too much speed to be selected at wing.
Sure it is a pity about Steyn - problem is he is now problemtic from the physical perspective - but the main problem is going to be his style of play - which the past year killed the Sharks back-line. That more than anything else can be hisdownfall.
09 Dec 2014, 16:52#4
Marais worries me. His play deteriorated this year.........and Jake got the blame.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Dec 2014, 20:52#6
Lambie, Sithole, JP, Esterhuizen, Mvovo, Frans, Reinach.......would be their best bet. As it pretty much was last year, with the highest win rate coming with Frans at 10.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Dec 2014, 00:18#7
The fact that Frasie was closly linked to the option given to White to resign or be fired indicates what te Shark supporters thought of Fransie at 10 or12. He was a flop in either position and caused the total malfunctioning of the Sharks backline.
Unless there is a 100% improvement in his performances next year - soemthing extremely doubtful - he is toickets in the next Super 15 season.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Dec 2014, 00:53#8
Wrong JP is not a 13 and Frans is not a 10.
Their best backline would be:
15. SP 14. JP 13. Esterhuizen 12. Frans 11. Sithole 10. Lambie 9. Reinach with Wright, Swiel and Fisher on the bench.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Dec 2014, 00:58#9
Wrong Lambie is not a 10.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Dec 2014, 01:05#10
Wrong
Fransie is not a 10 - neither is he a 12 - confurmed by Plumtree.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Dec 2014, 01:05#11
Rubbish he is a world class 10, he proved that years ago and once again against England.
Frans does not have the nous for 10 and his hand to foot is too slow
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Dec 2014, 01:15#12
The Sharks best record...the best pool record of S15 2014..... was when Fran's was at 10 for the Sharks. This hand to foot thing is just a theory based on a few charge downs. What about the Raainach/ Lambie charge downs up north?
Lambie started reasonably against the Poms, but his lucky chip aside, he was pretty ordinary. Since then he has been worse than ordinary. He will never survive a full S15 at 10. He is simply not physical enough and confident enough of what he should be doing at 10 to survive.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Dec 2014, 01:21#13
Moz your prejudice against Lambie sees you telling us that he was ordinary against England when we all know it was quite the opposite. Same can be said of his game against Wales where statistically he was better than Biggar with ball in hand.
Biggar s forwards provided a far better platform, as Wales won the battles on the ground.
Frans is a great 12 but a very average 10.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Dec 2014, 01:37#14
I like Lambie, but as a fullback in the Halfpenny idiom. I don't see him as a flyhalf, and definitely not a RWC winning flyhalf.
Dave my model for us at the RWC is power. We don't have the great attacking players at this time. Lambie is simply too easily dominated for this model. Perhaps if I believed that Lambie, Step and de Allende were going to cut defences apart, it would be worth playing a small flyhalf. I don't believe that....so I can't imagine him being part of the solution.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Dec 2014, 01:51#15
Moz I would not select Lambie to start as the man for the job is Pollard. Serfontein and de Allende would stand a chance at creating havoc if they actually played together and were empowered to express themselves in an expansive environment. Individually at their best they are better than the majority of centres out there but our model of play is wrong.
Our centres are not encouraged to be creative, they play it structured like utility forwards. We see no angled runs, decoys or slight of hand......its not the Meyer way.
Am all for the power model and we have the ammunition to employ that with the likes of Beast, du Toit, Kitshoff, Nkanyane, Coenie, Marcel v/d Merwe, Etzebeth, Willemse, Lood, PSDT, Coetzee, Vermeulen, Jacques du Plessis, Arno Botha, Elstadt in the forwards.
In the backs there is plenty of power in JP, de Allende, Frans, Serfontein, Esterhuizen, Kobus v/Wyk and Pollard
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Dec 2014, 03:05#16
You had me going there Dave and then you mentioned Lomp
AGAgPleezDeddy
Club Pro900 posts
AGAgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
10 Dec 2014, 06:30#17
Anyone that's been paying attention to european rugby, how's Swiel been getting on at the Quins?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Dec 2014, 08:28#18
APD
Swiel came on from the bench in the Harlequins Rugby Champions Cup Game at minute 12 - in other words he played virtually 85% of the game.
He was only a passing and kicking player at flyhalf. He convertd two kicks at goal and also a try.
His defense was seriously questionable - almost as bad as Fransie's was at flyhalf for the Sharks.
A very average prformanc by Swiel taken in the full context - but it should eb remembered he played in a team in a completely new enviorment and it would be intereststing to see what happens this week.
AGAgPleezDeddy
Club Pro900 posts
AGAgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
10 Dec 2014, 14:57#19
Cheers for the information, Mike. I really hope he can start to pick up his form, because he's a seriously talented player.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Dec 2014, 15:08#20
Um Mike I watched that game and never saw him miss a single tackle.....your take sounds about as accurate as your take on Frans
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Dec 2014, 15:14#21
Dave
I looked at his stats on ESPN and those are whatthey had:-
Swiel0/084/9/0000022/60/000/0
According tothm he made 2 tackles and missed 6. It could be amn error though - so what is the real situation?
Dave - Steyn tackle record at flyhalf was terrible - he missed more tackles than he made.
10 Dec 2014, 17:09#22
I wasnt that impressed with Swiel in the few games he played for the Sharks so far........seems to avoid contact. Seeing as he is highly thought of I will wait and see what happens next year although I doubt he will get to play much Super rugby.
So Mike, choose the starting forwards now.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Dec 2014, 18:28#23
That is definitely an error Mike, I watched the game and he never missed a single tackle
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Dec 2014, 10:11#24
I have a problem with the forwards - because of certain problems in the Sharks squad and the obvious decline in performances of the older players.
However, lets try and get there:-
8 Mthembu, 7 Oosthuizen, 6 Coetzee, 5 Du Toit, 4 Botha, 3 Du Plessis, 2 Bismarck, 1 Beast.
I would definitely have Lewies on the bench or play him at 5 and move Du Toit to 4. On the issue of the bench loosie I am unsure - but it should not be Alberts - he really is no loosie and has way too many limitations in ball skills and breakdown play. My prop bench players would be Chadwick and Du Toit. The Sharks seriously need a good enough Toighthead - I am afraid.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Dec 2014, 14:21#26
Iam not crazy Dave - Read the rest of what I wrote about the locks. I would like for the longer term to see D u Toit at 5 - especially in view of a pairing with Etzebeth in the Springbok team.
Incidentally your backline is a prtoblem - thee is no way that Tyler is a better player than Jordaan.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Dec 2014, 15:20#28
You guys have been pairing Steph with Etzebeth for years....hell by the time he gets over his latest injury he might even be mature enough for me to consider. But a fter Victor goes Willemse/Etzebeth is the power pairing.
11 Dec 2014, 17:12#30
We talking purely about the Sharks here. Their back up front row of Chadwick/ Cooper/ Adriaanse amd sometimes Du Toit actually improved our scrums on a number of occasions when they replaced the first choice front row.
Locks will be PSDT and Lewies with back up from Botha and Wentzel. Oosthuizen can play lock and flank.
Also add to the loosies mentioned above Alberts, Renaldo Bothma, Kanko and hopefully Daniel.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Dec 2014, 17:56#31
Thomas du Toit is a real talent......he will be kicking Beast out of the starting side soon
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Dec 2014, 19:03#32
Vic should have never been - he is a huge weakener of the Tight 5 - causing us to play a Tight 4 in tests.
11 Dec 2014, 19:26#33
It will be Beasts last season for the Sharks.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
11 Dec 2014, 20:45#34
Stu beast may not be the only sharkie having his last season for the sharks in 2015.I am expecting a post RWC exodus.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Dec 2014, 00:19#35
Beeno
The Sharks does not really have high demand players left in their squad. Two of their major under=performers (Francois Steyn and JP) are already gone and should help the team by remaining in Japan.
The others likely to go are Jannie, Bismarck and Beast. By next year all three would be ovcer the age of 30 and in the downward slide performance area. Jannie may go [ppracticing as a meficial practituioner or go abroad.
DEDezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
16 Dec 2014, 14:22#36
Saffex, Lambie was humiliate at 10 on tour. He is a 15, he established himself as a 15 long ago.
Agree on that lock pairing Mozart. I was not impressed with what I saw of PSDT so far. Very little productivity for such hype.
DBDbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DBDbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Dec 2014, 14:30#37
To be fair, PSDT is a pipe dream. He has had way too little game time to even be in contention at this stage. We will have to see what he does when he gets back. Same with Arno Botha.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Dec 2014, 14:43#38
Lambie humiliated on tour.......what utter rubbish......he was great against England for a start
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Dec 2014, 14:48#39
I would play Du Toit a head of the weak Matfield even if he is 60% ready to play. And Lambie will be th Sharks flyhalf - with Swiel as back-up.
DBDbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DBDbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Dec 2014, 14:55#40
Eben, Willemse with Pollard at 10 with Morne as backup and Lambie covering 10, 12 and 15 from the bench.
