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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Stormers post Rassie

The Stormers post Rassie

Started by Beeno111 REPLIES401 VIEWS· 01 Aug 2012, 12:06
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
01 Aug 2012, 12:06
#1
01 Aug 2012, 12:06#1

By Gavin Rich - with expert commentary by Beeno - the one who knows!

The sun rose over Cape Town on Sunday, as I had predicted it would in a newspaper column the day before. So at least I got one thing right!

Not that the results of the two semifinals were completely unexpected. The Crusaders were always going to miss Kieran Read, and as I reminded newspaper readers in that same column, which was an attempt to suggest ways for Stormers fans to deal with depression if the unthinkable was to happen, the Sharks did come to Newlands with six starting Springbok forwards in their pack (Ryan Kankowski must surely wear the No 8 in The Castle Championship).(Noted By Beeno)

On that basis, if the Stormers/Sharks game had been played on neutral territory or on a level playing field, the Sharks would always have started as favourites (debatable). The travel factor made them underdogs, but with the personnel they had at their disposal, they always stood a chance of winning – which was why I suggested in that column that Stormers fans keep a copy of U2’s “It’s a beautiful day” on hand for a commiserating Sunday drive into the Karoo.

I don’t know if there was a mass migration of sad Stormers supporters to Laingsburg on Sunday for I was never going to join them. When they went into the June break for international rugby on top of their conference I started to believe it was possible on the basis that Schalk Burger and Duane Vermeulen were supposed to be returning, but in reality the Stormers season ended where at the start of the year I thought it would. (Gavin great minds think alike. I was always wotrried that come the crunch these two key world class players would be missed)

Indeed, you could say they went further than I thought they would, for when I wrote my pre-season prediction column the Sharks were my SA conference winners. If you look at the disparity in their representation in Heyneke Meyer’s Springbok team in comparison with the Bulls and the Sharks, then the Stormers were over achievers in 2012, and not the failures some would make them out to be (Gavin only the lunatic fringe think they are failures. If topping the log and winning the SA Conference represents failure then how about the other sides. Great season in my book).

The Stormers’ success this year was built around the systems put in place by former director of rugby Rassie Erasmus and carried on by Allister Coetzee and the other coaches. It was because Erasmus was not going to be there that at the beginning of the competition my outlook for the Stormers was not a positive one. (gavin exactly my thoughts which I expressed a number o ftimes- that was a body blow)

By winning the conference and topping the overall log they emphatically proved me wrong, but in the aftermath of the semifinal defeat I am not sure my initial misgivings were misplaced. When Erasmus left he took away the coaching X-factor that may be needed in order for the Stormers to make the subtle adjustments necessary for them to rediscover the balance they had to their game in 2010 but which has been lacking since then.

This time last year the discourse following the Crusaders defeat was the same as it is now – the Stormers were being criticised for being overly defensive. A top of the log finish justified Coetzee’s approach, but I am not sure he was right when he said after the Sharks game that his team improved this year.

Maybe in terms just of wins and losses they did, and 14 wins in 16 starts was a phenomenal performance. But in neither 2011 nor 2012 did the Stormers look as complete as a team as they did at the start of their current winning cycle in 2010.

Had they not lost unexpectedly to the Sharks in Durban in a league game near the end of the competition, the Stormers would have finished top of the log that season and might well then have won the trophy. Among the big wins they scored was a 50 pointer against the Chiefs in Hamilton and a 42-14 massacre of the Crusaders in Cape Town.(Gavin thanks for reminding us of those great results)

That Stormers team had the same defence coach they do now and much of their success was built around their defensive system. Yet they were also able to hurt opponents with their attacking game, and did so regularly.

Throwing the baby out with the bath water and trying to reinvent their game would be a dangerous thing for the Stormers to do now. Given that they don’t have as many Springboks and don’t have as large or as expensive a squad as the other two top SA franchises (smaller budget Gavin thanks to the looting of the professional arm), it might only ensure that next year the Stormers get to avoid the misery of a semifinal defeat for the wrong reason, being that they don’t make the playoffs at all.

What the Stormers need to do is rediscover whatever it was that gave them the right balance in 2010. If Erasmus was still present I would have greater faith in their ability to do that, so it is going to be interesting to see how Allister Coetzee is going to respond to the challenge of being effectively both the coach and the director of rugby.

This period, when an analysis of approach and ways to improve it and a stock take of personnel might be necessary (until Malherbe and Kitshoff mature there will be question marks over the scrumming before really big games)  (Scrum was okay this season and will be better next season - second half agains sharks was fine as even ou snapster admtted)), was always going to be the big test for the Stormers post-Erasmus. The way it is dealt with will determine whether I am being overly pessimistic when I suggest that the best chance of the Stormers winning the Super Rugby trophy may now have passed

A chance was missed but Gavin I do agree there are problems. The looting of the professioanl arm to benefit the clubs  is one and then the coaching staff is another. Good coaches will not stay here as we have seen with Mallet and Rassie. Until they decide to go professional we will underachieve.

Given that we have a large number of young forwards who will be better next year and should have Vermuelen and Schalk back it may not be as gloomy as you are suggesting. One will have to wait to see what the squad looks like and see if anyhing at all has been learnt by the coaches.

LU
lunaticClub Pro305 posts
01 Aug 2012, 12:47
#2
01 Aug 2012, 12:47#2

 Stormers were no failures nor over achievers, they were simply a bunch of good players with second-rate management and coaching staff.  Strategically they were managed really badly.  Why, in a semi final would you change the scrummy (one of the top 3 in the country) and replace him with a kid?  And that while the 10 is not having a good game by anyone's standard.  Kitshoff is good, but he is still a kid in rugby terms and can only get better.  But the inept management may soon lose him to another franchise as has become the norm in WP rugby!

BO
BonganiPClub Pro229 posts
01 Aug 2012, 13:59
#3
01 Aug 2012, 13:59#3

When did Mallett coach the Stormers?

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
01 Aug 2012, 14:25
#4
01 Aug 2012, 14:25#4

 Mallet was the director of rugby for wp for about 5 years which rassie took over from him. Rassie said that it would be better if left because of certain friction that he had with some board room members. 

I have been saying this for many years, there are simply to many big egos in the WP board room that doesn't understand rugby and should never be involved in the first place. 

Coetzee is there because he is steady, but it would also be good to point out that in the currie cup coetzee was really bad and only once rassie stepped in the wp start playing better. A lot of it is to do with Rassie in getting the right players, Nienabaars defensive coaching and proudfoots forward coaching. In terms of management and strategy Coetzee has been really poor and lackend any imagination or skills that he can pass on to player from being a backline coach.

WP need a coach with the skills of Brendan Venter or Eddie Jones that can make ordinary backline players great backline players. That is why I feel its time for Fleck to pack his bags and for Coetzee to move on. After 5 years in the job and still no trophies? Especially with the players he had last year in the currie cup only for most of them to leave becasue of poor management.

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
01 Aug 2012, 14:33
#5
01 Aug 2012, 14:33#5

i will said this before nothing wrong witht he players missing beeno...the sharks was without lambie franna steyn and a lot of other players too so jumping on the bandwagon of maybe excuses. AC is inept. just like the theo wakefields of the world. that being said they will jungle jive to keep there job so until they racist element in cape town is removed in there management they will continue to employ people that are on standard and will be just another team. brendan venter is a great defence coach yes but is still stuck in 1980 naas botha playing style mode in regards to how the game is being played. carel du plessis would be a better option. a backline coach as the head coach will just bring that general attacking style of play back that the stormers need. mallet is a good coach but has way to much verbal diarrea.

the buddy buddy cape managment system wil only change when the people involved gets removed. as n non stormer all i can say is thank goodness AC is in charge.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
01 Aug 2012, 14:36
#6
01 Aug 2012, 14:36#6

@Bongani. I see that was your first post. Welcome to the board.

@Kingcorn. A question that I have asked many times, and which is still unanswerred. I have often seen remarks about the WP/Stormers being something like the pinnacle of SA Rugby, but then the picture that you have just painted is also a well known one. Somehow a union/franchise that is so poorly managed and that  has such a poor example for a headcoach cannot be seen as the top rugby set-up in the country, can it?

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
01 Aug 2012, 15:02
#7
01 Aug 2012, 15:02#7

Yes welcome t othe board Bongani 2. Who do you support?

The management is a problem and I have acknowledged that for years now. Till that comes right we will underachieve.

Rassie started to really pull us right but he has gone. If we lose more top players we will be toast. Hopefully they are all contracted in and we will have a few good backline acquistions.  Yes we can defend well but now lets get the attack going. Get in an Eddie Jones. One guy with some brain power could do wonders. Ensure our Stormers budget is equal to any other franchise - stop the looting of the professional arm.

The trouble is at the top.

End of story.

Windpomp given we have won the SA Conference for the last two years we have to be at the pinnacle of SA rugby or thereabouts - dispite these serious failings. I trust you are not suggesting the bulle "legends" are currently the pinnacle?

 

 

 

 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
01 Aug 2012, 15:41
#8
01 Aug 2012, 15:41#8

The Sharks' win over the Aus and SA Conference winners just proved what a farce the Conference Cup really is, and with that the conference system.

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
01 Aug 2012, 15:46
#9
01 Aug 2012, 15:46#9

Ceredyne, the only top Blazer buddy that I can name is rob Wagner and some few others but they have been holding on to their jobs for a long time and probaly as old as the stadium itself. If you look at how they hold on to power and the silly choices they make. When WP does bad why doesn't the top bras never resign, it is time that we get former rugby players involve and get people in that can make rugby sense. 

Stormers have been in play-offs for the last 4 years in a row and still haven't managed to win it. You would expect if they finished top that they can go all the way, I would rather have mallet back and coaching the team and not be director of rugby. Time to have somre real coaches roll up their sleeves and get stuck in.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
01 Aug 2012, 16:18
#10
01 Aug 2012, 16:18#10

Hoor Hoor an dHoor Kingcorn. Have to say I do enjoy Mallets comments on TV. He is way beyond the likes of Naas and Ashwin etc.

Venter is also a brain and why not try for a Campese or a Jones etc. Get in even just one quality coach with an emphasis on attack an dbackline play. But we must have the financial resources.  It all starts there.

 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
01 Aug 2012, 16:26
#11
01 Aug 2012, 16:26#11

Just goes to show. the top gusy are crap. and the rest are too crap to kick them out.

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
01 Aug 2012, 16:35
#12
01 Aug 2012, 16:35#12

@ceradyne the conf cup is a farce your 100% correct. to win the noddy cup as the stormers has proven means nothing.

i know ifs cold and its hard but that is how life is in pro sport.

 

— END OF THREAD —

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