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FORUM / RUGBY /  The three crucial moments that lost the test

The three crucial moments that lost the test

Started by Mozart110 REPLIES1,993 VIEWS· 06 Oct 2018, 19:30
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Oct 2018, 19:30
#1
06 Oct 2018, 19:30#1
1 Koch is penalized for boring in....he shouldn't even have been playing....the ABs get posssession on our goal line. 2 Stephanie stupidly lifts the player off the ground and gives the ABs possession on our goal line. 3 Willemse doesn't cover a penalty that lands in bounds. If he's in the right position he catches it and kicks out on the halfway, and we likely win the game. NONE OF THESE WERE THREATENING POSITIONS, THREE BASIC MISTAKES LOST THE TEST. Damn disappointing. But Koch and Willemse should never have been on the park when we were in sight of a famous victory.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
06 Oct 2018, 19:41
#2
06 Oct 2018, 19:41#2
It is concerning that so many first-choice players do not have backup test level players. Faff, Marx and Willie are irreplaceable. 
I dont understand why Koch was even in the team. He was bog average when he was in SA, and he signed to play overseas. 
Rather stick with local players unless the overseas options are better.



BO
BokBFClub Pro421 posts
06 Oct 2018, 19:42
#3
06 Oct 2018, 19:42#3

Giving away caps to keep the ANC happy makes me sick. Taking off our only fetcher in Marx when  defiesyou know the AB's are going to give it everything in the last 5 defies belief.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Oct 2018, 19:47
#4
06 Oct 2018, 19:47#4

Thanks Mozart

For identifying those "moments".

By the way Willemse was outstanding when he got the ball the first time.   How many times did ben Smith and the AB's had posiotional problems when kicks were made at them?

So I suppose the attack Willemse will now be career-defining in your normal way?

What about the Etzebeth penalty g ive-away that was converted by Barrett?   Was that not a moment too?   

If you have strings of BS to write please be fair to all players.    

BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
06 Oct 2018, 19:48
#5
06 Oct 2018, 19:48#5

We must not forget the drop in efficiency of the props when Marx is replaced by a much weaker Mbonambi......but why must he be substituted?  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Oct 2018, 20:11
#6
06 Oct 2018, 20:11#6
The Boks played 60 great minutes Cloudy....Pollard, Willie, Faf and even Kriel were terrific among the backs. And all the starting forwards played well. All the more reason to be gutted when three such unnecessary errors lost the test. The ABs came back, but we gave the game away.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Oct 2018, 20:15
#7
06 Oct 2018, 20:15#7

Answer my question - stupid.  Was the converted penalty of Etzebeth not a moment too?  

You ae always writing drivel trying to blame your pet hate players, but answer all the questions ad try and not show prejudice,    

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Oct 2018, 20:32
#8
06 Oct 2018, 20:32#8
Stupid hahaha.....sure Tokkie. Well Stephanie had his Matfield moment. Something you have gone on about for 3 years.But this wasn't even a debate. Why don't you talk about that huh?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Oct 2018, 20:42
#9
06 Oct 2018, 20:42#9

You are seriously troubled - go and see your shrink as a matter of urgency since you cannot even answer a simple question.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Oct 2018, 20:47
#10
06 Oct 2018, 20:47#10
Careful now Liarmike....if you keep going on I'll publish your pre match predictions. I'm off for a bit, but do be prudent, I'd hate to serve you egg again.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Oct 2018, 20:56
#11
06 Oct 2018, 20:56#11

That from a guy already created a mountain of  eggs he ended up with,   I am ready to throw some more egg on the mountain -  but that would not really help.  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2018, 00:36
#12
07 Oct 2018, 00:36#12
Teflon Stefanie not being outed in the press and on the Board.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
07 Oct 2018, 00:39
#13
07 Oct 2018, 00:39#13

The difference is that Etzebeth gave the Boks a competitive edge. Steph was nowhere in the first 40 minutes, the second was a mixed bag. Some good work, but some bad mistakes.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Oct 2018, 01:00
#14
07 Oct 2018, 01:00#14

AO

Have you got any active brain cells left?

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
07 Oct 2018, 01:20
#15
07 Oct 2018, 01:20#15

The full might of Lügnerin's cerebral faculties transiting information around his rather large Mr Clever skull. 


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2018, 01:35
#16
07 Oct 2018, 01:35#16
The brightest and the best usually don't work in local government.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Oct 2018, 02:27
#17
07 Oct 2018, 02:27#17

And the deceitful and childish do not know anything about the game of rugby,

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2018, 02:29
#18
07 Oct 2018, 02:29#18
Seems to me that be you Tokkie....didn't you pick the wrong winner in both games. Stop predicting man, you are a horrible predictor.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Oct 2018, 02:45
#19
07 Oct 2018, 02:45#19

No I had the right answer - but for the weird bounce of the ball in the last minute of the game.    I am a horrible predictor - you are a total rugby ignorant and a deceiver of note when it comes to rugby.

You found another reason to attack Erasmus and that makes it even more weird,   

I will not stop predicting because it is fun and one can give real reasons for the prediction.   You are too stupid and even to cowardly to make predictions and in the rare event when you do you make it based on no other reason than BS,

   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2018, 02:52
#20
07 Oct 2018, 02:52#20
I need to add a fourth moment. Koch, who should never have been playing is getting the ball in phase play....at minute 76 plus, with the Boks ahead by 5. A series of neutral phase and resets should win the game. Koch supported by Stephanie takes the ball and gets hit. Instead of simply resetting he tries to break the tackle....Stephanie pushes from behind. But then Stephanie loses his feet falls forward but keeps his hold on Koch, literally pulling him down. So instead of being there to clean out Stephanie is on the deck and Savea is over the ball uncontested. Kolisi can't move him....penalty. Bouncing kick into the corner, no Willemse, game over.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Oct 2018, 03:02
#21
07 Oct 2018, 03:02#21

You also forgot the penalties given away by Etzebeth (2) and Louw.   Why are you always attacking the same player who in the match as a whole played better than the tw o I mentioned combined,    

ND
NdabaningiClub Pro116 posts
07 Oct 2018, 04:30
#22
07 Oct 2018, 04:30#22

Mike. This man has been a fool for decades. Remember how he disqualified Jaque Fourie as a worthy centre in the early 2000s? His use of the hebephrenic, giggling composer as a personal icon is a projection .

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
07 Oct 2018, 04:45
#23
07 Oct 2018, 04:45#23

Bit of a giveaway there Mr Ndabaningi 

As I understand it the Bok players were subbed due to injury ?

The ABs always rely on their bench and a tiring opposition forward pack to administer the coup de grace.Just so happened that this time they were a fair bit behind so instead of blowing out the score they were "normalising " it 

3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
07 Oct 2018, 05:11
#24
07 Oct 2018, 05:11#24

The Boks XV can at least match it with the ABS for 65-70 mins. Even dominate. But I Think ABS exposed their lack of depth, and fitness.. ABS bench in the 20 had a far supeior impact. ABS just know how to win. And have incredible self belief. Would not be too hard on the Boks. They have improoved ammensly. I think both sides can take alot out of the two tests. First test in Welly it was the case of NZ lack of Game management. Than ironically Boks suffered from the very same thing. I thought Ardie was again outstanding. His turnover and try was of course crucial. I thought BB Two Penalty kicks in the 1st half were also crucial. I thought Richies touch finder. To put ABS into position was also crucial. When the Abs seem to be struggling. Richie and BB Combination, seems to add a new dimension. Although I don't think it would work vice versa. If Ritchie started. BB too me also made a crucial play. When he out ran Dyanti to cover. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2018, 05:44
#25
07 Oct 2018, 05:44#25
Poor old Urinal ....his multiple personality disorder seems to be accelerating. And let me correct the BS. 1 Barrett didn't out run Dyantyi.....they ran neck and neck and the ball turned left which favoured Barrett. 2 The Savea turnover was bog ordinary because the support for Koch, Stephanie, helped actually pull him down, and couldn't clean out because he was on his backside. 3 Richies's penalty landed in field and luckily bounced into touch.....and if our fullback was in position the game should have ended right there. The recovery by the ABs was epic, but 4 stupid Bok plays presented the game on a plate.
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
07 Oct 2018, 05:56
#26
07 Oct 2018, 05:56#26

A loss is always painful but Rassie never lost focus to his overall game plan and that is to build depth and he kept to the road...subbing might well have cost us the game but he never deviated from what he intends to do in the first place and that is to build deeper...the markings of a good coach. His goal is to build depth overall...he keeps to the path and that takes balls...well done Mr Erasmus and thank you for what you have already done...we now have hope for the future and even the WC is no longer a pipe dream.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2018, 06:07
#27
07 Oct 2018, 06:07#27
Oh balls.....how many times have we heard this building for the WC bs. The mission is to start winning. Rassie has abandoned the expansive game and gone right back to defence, tactical kicking and counter attack. It's brought immediate results and we should never have abandoned it. But I can't see what else has been added to the party and with the win over NZ as the only real highlight, so far 2018 isn't as good as 2014.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
07 Oct 2018, 07:27
#28
07 Oct 2018, 07:27#28

You don't build depth by sending on rookies in the last 10 minutes of a game against the All Blacks.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Oct 2018, 07:53
#29
07 Oct 2018, 07:53#29

So the blame for the loss is as follows:-

1   Pieter-Stef du Toit

2   Erasmus

3   Willemse

4   Koch

5   De Allende

No other penalties an other players are to blame. 

I smell a rat - the Mozart and Co lot has their own agenda and that agenda is attacking the same players game after game, everybody else can make mistakes - or under-perform but must never be mentioned.

Talk about the prejudiced brain dead must be very real in their case.   

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
07 Oct 2018, 09:14
#30
07 Oct 2018, 09:14#30

Agree with Wardad, Faff was replaced because he was cramping up, Willie was replaced because he failed a Head Injury Assessment Test - That leaves only Max. Now all 3 players were on the field in Wellington in the last few minutes when the ABs were hot on attack so I am not sure whether they would have done anything differently this time around. 

The ABs took to the good old up and under to negate the rushing defense of the Boks forwards and to drive them back. Even at the 70minute mark they were still kicking away position - case in point, Perenara at the back of the ruck on his own 22 - I thought they would have chanced their arm and ran it - they probably thought better the Boks ran at them with the ball and make mistakes then they get penalised with the ball making easy pickings for Pollard kicking penalties.


AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
07 Oct 2018, 09:21
#31
07 Oct 2018, 09:21#31

You don't build depth by playing players that shouldn't be playing test rugby. His handling of the centres has been pretty shoddy. I heard an excuse that he is primarily a forwards expert. That after years of me being told he is the most progressive and intelligent attacking mind in SA rugby, the Eddie Jones of South Africa. I have seen nothing of the sort. He has time to make amends, but it will be difficult. Blowing a win over New Zealand could haunt him. We'll see what he does up north, this will be a new challenge. His clunky attacking game won't work. 

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
07 Oct 2018, 10:28
#32
07 Oct 2018, 10:28#32

Brother Hakwa I think that Hansen is preparing the ABs for the NH defensive tactics maybe ?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2018, 16:36
#33
07 Oct 2018, 16:36#33
Here's the thing.....Willie was gone because of a head injury assessment. So we send on a rookie flyhalf, who apparently thinks his mission is to attack at all costs. Faff is cramping, but still totally functional and we send on a scrummie who gets the ball and isolates himself in his first touch of the ball. We send on Koch who has a history of conceding scrumming penalties, instead of selecting Louw. We are in desperate defence mode and we replace Allende with Jantjies! With Jantjies.....how can that make any sense. And then in the final act of lunacy we take off Louw who is a shrewd player and bring on Notshe the waif. ....... Huge mistakes selecting the bench, huge mistakes not giving the bench the right direction, given the circumstances, and huge mistakes in unnecessarily taking off players and replacing them with vulnerable players.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
07 Oct 2018, 16:42
#34
07 Oct 2018, 16:42#34

In fairness, Jantjies has a history of making tackles, so too Pollard, who moved to 12 . 

It was a huge gaff. I wondered what might happen if we'd lost, I never thought it would have been a spectacular implosion. Our game managers were gone. The replacements with the impression that they must attack. What were their instructions before coming on? Interesting.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2018, 16:50
#35
07 Oct 2018, 16:50#35
Willemse and Papier clearly thought the mission was too attack at all costs....which is why we had no fullback to field Moanga's infield penalty kick.....run to the edge of the 22 and kick it out on the AB 10 metre line. And nobody in our press has the brains to even see that!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Oct 2018, 18:22
#36
07 Oct 2018, 18:22#36

The madness showed through again - Mozart went bananas because of the replacement of Le Roux and then found out about the injury and in his lunacy he forced himself into finding another excuse to attack Erasmus.   Nice try - fool.    

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2018, 20:09
#37
07 Oct 2018, 20:09#37
No the hilarious thing is those who are so challenged to win a forum spat at all costs, that they would defend the biggest implosion in Bok history.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Oct 2018, 21:04
#38
07 Oct 2018, 21:04#38

The hilarious thing is you first attacked Erasmus when he replaced Le Roux and make other replacements.   When it came out afterwards about the attack remained on Erasmus - but now for a different reason. 

How prejudiced and stupid you\have become.  To support your sick stories further you proclaimed that you, AO, Pakie and Ceradunce are the top world rugby analysts - as they are able to identify issues the ordinary analysts cannot see,   That opened the way for you lot to fabricate circumstances to be used against certain players and obviously the coach and continue with your prejudiced BS on site.  

L MAO  

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
07 Oct 2018, 21:05
#39
07 Oct 2018, 21:05#39
Koch is, without a doubt, the primary reason for the implosion.
Koch is one of those types of players that when given the chance in a top-level test match will be hopelessly exposed. He is not even a 5th best option in South Africa. He gave away a scrum penalty- and then gave away a penalty in open play. This was enough to lose the match. 

Notshe could be along the lines of what Hansen said as not choosing the best team that is available. Has Notshe ever won a man of the match in SuperRugby or even Curry Cup rugby? Duane Vermeulen should have been playing at the 8th man with Louw on the bench. 

Willemse needs game time, he did have one excellent break.  We need Willemse to get more game time before the world cup, either at flyhalf or at 10. Possibly even as a wing, because he is fast and has a kicking game.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Oct 2018, 01:05
#40
08 Oct 2018, 01:05#40
I'd sayStephanie was more culpable. Nobody wants to say it, but the penalty he gave away was moronic....far sillier than the Koch penalty. And the turnover was a joint effort....Stephanie and Koch, but Stephanie made the bigger mistake. Stephanie's role as the ball protector turned into him helping to bring Koch down, and then not being there to clean out the defenders.
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