The truth about Sharks flyhalf play

 Mozart
No speculation - all factual.   Why don't you check his stats and find the miserable Steyn performances exposed in that as well.   He was the most ineffective flyhalf in Supoer 15 - the Sharks backline was in limbo whenever he played at 10 or 12 and that is a fact too.  
The flyhalf is the pivoit of the bacvkline -  a slow decision-maker and slow in pace flyhalf is just not acceptable and Fransie is both.  If the flyhalf misfiires - like Steyn did all the time - than the whole backline misfires .  The Sharks backline did misfire.   
What is amazing is that with Fransie gone to Japan - the Sharks backline has become their most formidable attack weapon in the CC compeition - they are indeed lucky he is not there anymore.  

Number nine! number nine! number nine! oops the record is stuck again or should one say no 10, no 10, no 10...lolz

Illogical and unfair criticism to the following players, Patrick Lambie and Frans Steyn.

First of all PL was injured for virtually all of the super series (Bulls second game)...everything was going well until then...Seedy Gonzoles refuses to see this.

Frans Steyn is a very blessed player with strong physical presence rather like Butch James was but he imo did not do himself great credit...he was at best satisfactory but it is stupid and childish to say he is useless (as it is with any player who is up there and in contention) but Frans does have a presence whether it's no 10 or 12...I like him @12 or even 15 when Lambie's fit...ironically we (The Sharks) are well loaded with Swiel and Zeilinga in the reserve bank. Steyn has far more going for him than what came out this year and needs to find better form...he is a type of player that can easily be back at his best...I do believe he was grossly overweight in the beginning of this season but is looking better now. However having said that he is not my favourite.

I too like the no 9 Reinach and even at times Mcleod but feel that if Rory Kockett was entrenched with the Sharks, the half backs would be brilliant...Seedy Gonzoles and Mozart are in error about Lambie...great scott man...he hasn't played virtually the whole year!

Kockett and Lambie would be a great pairing...both fly and scrum halves can make or break each other...we're seen that with many combo's in the past...just in 2011 we saw how the French could manipulate their halfbacks...Morgan Parra/Dimitri Yachvilli and TrinDuc...both Parra and Yachvilli could play 9 and 10. Each combo is different...I think Lambie would be brilliant with a scrummie like Rory. Sadly this will never be tested.

 oh im sorry i had no idea lambie was injured the past 5 years homey. i should then cut him some slack for sucking donkey balls all that time. 
 next up fransie is no slowrr than he was in 2007 and not less mobile either. search youtube for him cstching shane willisms out wide

 Bonzo
Are you nuts - Fransioe slowed down massively during his sojourn in France and subsequently.  When he came back from France he was grossly over-weight - and he only came down from 118 kgs to 110 kgs this year and then went up again.
Carrying that amount of lard it is physically impossible for him to etain his his pace.  Aside from that he is carrying a knee injury.  If he has half the pace now that he ahd in 2007 it  would be amazing.   All the harks backline players in a 69 meter race will beat Fransie by 10 meters.   
His lack of pace is the reason why his defense is so poor and his attacking play virtually non-existent.      

Facts trump opinions....Frans  was a very successful flyhalf for the Sharks. Over a series of 8 games he raised the Sharks to a higher success ratio than the winning Tahs. Nuff said. 

Well there's something wrong with a side that's got 4 good flyhalves but has issues there (started with PL's injury) and then shuffling backline players like musical chairs...Steyn, Swiel and Zeilinga in 10 with FS being predominant and stats befuddling the argument...but we know stats do not give your the complete truth and picture...rugby is NOT mathematics or book keeping only, if symbolism and terminology will be permitted in this context...it's also an art, in fact, it is this portion that  is the most neglected...the rough and tumble rock spiders in Saffaland who cannot understand balance and only see things in black and white (no pun intended) and cannot see in shades of grey let alone other colours of the rainbow...this is indeed strange in a country that claims diversity but struggles to add up one and one to make two. Yes, we are generally nice people but thick as bricks...we are champions in making mountains out of mole hills and create huge issues out of very small and insignificant  things but neglect huge issues like crime, pollution and productivity...hampering and destroying a beautiful enviroment and generally good meaning people...amen and amen.

 I agree stats aren't everything, but one stat is not up for debate....the win ratio. Chabal  RSA is no different to any country in the world. People are living longer, uglier lives. Elegance and decency are in retreat.

I know it's a fairly old book...4 years old but I recently read John Smit's book "Captain In A cauldron".

Barney is no literary genius but it is a simple and enjoyable account written by a very likeable, honest, strong and good person who played rugby with all these attributes.

The book is informative and gives one a very clear insight into rugby at provincial and national level.

If you like me were slow to pick this book up and read it, I suggest you that now...the issues of SA rugby and indeed that of the Sharks is unravelled in this open and honest approach that marks John's style.

I must admit I've always been a fan of Smitty but after reading his book one will be further enlightened to what really a great man he is...not only in rugby but in his relationships with his wife Roxy, his children, his family and friends, team mates, opposition players and people in general.

Well done Barney and thanks for your example.

 Seb, one of the best parts in the book, IMO, is the part where he describes the story with Os when Henning Gericke got them to explain what the Bok jersey meant to them.

 Mozart
The dimwit view is that one player in the game of rugby decides the outcome of games during Super 15 - that obviously is impossible.   Then there is the view that a flyhalf only needs to kcik at goal - the rest of his game does not count.
You believe in stats - but when stats indicate that yioour idols are not performing - those stats has to be ignored.   That again is absolute BS.
Steyn's poor performances outside of kicking at goal - did it in fact hinder the team - rather than help them.   The present scenrio that the Sharks now has a functioning backline indicates it was a negative - and that without him the team would have won more matches and ended up with a home semi.
This is not the fir st time that type of thing ended up in a disaster in Super 15.  The 2012 RC log had the Stormers on top of the log - but they scored the least tries and they had a limited game plan.  Same thing happened to them as happened to the Sharks this year.   Lesson - you cannot play rugby with a team limited to 10 players - and you cannot have a limited player at 10 and expect miracles.       

 Stats 101.

 Mozart
This is bullshit and 100$ prejudice in favour of Steyn.    "You have to have enough independent observations for your results to be statistically significant."    What did Steyn do in respect of "independent observations"?  
He never scored a try in Super 16 - all other front line flyhalfs and centers did.   He made two line breaks in the wholle of Super 15 - other flyhalfs and centers did that in one match.  He loses ball possession -mostly through aimless kicking - then any other player in Super 15 did.    He was making the most atrocious kicks when he should have passed the  balls - he hogged balls  when there are ovlelrlaps in evidence outside of him.   He made skip passes eliminating overlaps.   There are ample examples of all of the above.  
The latter is all independent observations - most of thenm raised bye xperts during match halftiimes - and iI would say if that type of issues are raised then - there must be serious subnsttnce in those.   During these observations it is evident that the commentators do not regard Steyn as a proper flyhalf 0 only as a stand-in one.    
All in all Steyn is slow in reaction and thinking - a type of playeer a flyhalf sgould never ever be.    So keep in dreaming - Steyn would come back and would ruin the  Sharks backline again next year 0 that is a fc we have to face.  

mika you ignorant bint frans ia no slower then other quality 12s or 13s so you picking on his speed is just plain arse backward. but enough anout that mozart rip you a new orifice and you couldnt bite your tongue amd confirmed how revolting and thick you are. a real weather beaten plank. boring and dull.

 Bonzo the Apemoron
Frans'ss speed is not debatable - he is slow and he is not capable to adjust to speedy change of running lines of opponents.   That happened many times in Super 15 and is a fact.  Frans is slower than any of the 12's and 13's in Super 15 and that is a fact shown up by both his atatcking and defending deficiencies.    

The Sharks/Natal have always had good flyhalfs and at times very exceptional, Mozart and Ol Mike will remember Keith Oxlee going far back...now this was an exceptionally flyhalf...one of the best ever, Springbok vice capt too...and when the ice was broken and Natal became the Coastal/Natal /Sharks, the union/franchise started importing and apart from Henry Honiball, Joel Stransky,Butch James there were imports from Australia (cannot remember the guys name but was Ozzie who played no 10, wait a minute thinking cap... aha, just remembered, David Knox) their was Thierry La Croix (outstanding French player), there was Puma Martin Hernandez (sadly this worthwhile import was badly injured) and then ofcourse Frederic Michalak (at one stage one of the best in the world and now Patrick Lambie, Tim Swiel, Fred Zeilinga and ofcourse the controversial Frans Steyn...incidentally I still believe he will redeem himself and become a complete player and so do I have absolute confidence in Pat Lambie...I feel Patrick would have thrived if he had been born in New Zealand and I also believe that if the rugby board, it's coaches in particular mess Patrick around like they've done to others then Patrick should go overseas...especially France where they know how to groom an d train halves.

 lambie is the worst second worst ten i have ever seen play for south africa. earl rose was bad but he had energy, speed and was actually able to do a lot of neat stuff. he was a poor mans pretorius, exactly in the same mould. but llambie. what does he have going for him? is he faster than frans i dont think so, he is actually slow. his passing game is really average and can be very poor. he is a short pass and not a great one off the left hand. frans can pass nearly the width of the field. a guy like morne can actually distribute just a shade lesser than du preez. goosen, i think the guy is lacking in a lot of areas, but he can pass and is a good little runner.... if given room to work with (thats why I said he could be great alteranative 15). but lambie... nah, his kicking game has never been great and his dicision making is really really bad. he is a very how can i said stodgy player... he wont fight, wont ever put up his hand and just goes through the motions. he never even excelled at youth level he was just okay. this is a guy who is like the term mozat said in another thread a process player. tackiling, running, passing, kicking, decision making, heart.... it just aint there it never was there and never will be there. his star faded this year badly because a lie can only be peddled so long. he blew the sharks season, he has never done anything great for the boks. his legacy at test level will be blowing the match winning try for south africa. say what you want but kirchner or aplon would have put that away without any questions (and im not even a fan of these two!). chabal, your faith in the kid is way misguided. FIVE damn years.... FIVE! half a decade, 32 tests and what...? nothing, nix, nought, zero. he is almost at 50 tests and nothing. his points per test ratio is less than werner greef. his only two great games in 5 years were at currie cup level. the answer is starring you straight in the face. HE IS NOT A GOOD PLAYER. he has less talent than adi jacobs or jorrie muller. literally!

Do us both a favour and keep your negative vision on PL to yourself...you are entitled to your opinion if it is based on the truth and full content and picture...there is nothing MORE misleading than portions of half truths...Lambie has imo been messed around from pillar to post, probably Swiel, Pollard will be too but as much respect I've had for Morne in the past it's time for closure...if rugby best interests are seen as the priority and not some last minute panic attack by a group of Dutchman that are neurotic about the coming WC...this time I've got a big gut feel that Saffaland won't see the William Webb Ellis Cup and it is going to either England/Ireland or France...this time to the North.

Anyway that's not the point...we fans are getting tired of the abuse of young talent...Rory Kockett is another one and there are a host of others and this subject has been flogged to death.

If I was PL or his parent I would also say...lets move out...and Seedy Gonzoless I hope you guys in outer space have humility because you're gonna need it China.

But the trouble is Lambie does nothing better than Morne and he isn't as reliable a pressure kicker, nor as clear a reader of the game. So you may be losing faith in Morne Chabal....but the flyhalf who played the Saders in the semis was a disaster. And I don't want to hear about rust. Lambie is a fullback, all his best games for RSA and there have been some decent ones, have been at fullback.

 really? what stat? he scores less points, less tries, is involved in far less positive attacking movements, cant tackle, can make decisions. his running stats are not better, his passing is far worse, his kicking is worse. we tend to beat the top teams far more often with morne.

chabal cut the shizzle and be honest! lambie is not this little criticized baby being kicked around or stuffed around. he has had 29 provincial caps, 56 super rugby caps, 32 test caps and a baabaas blowout. He has played a hell of a lot of minutes at 10 and then 15. He has shown NO capacity in either position in FIVE years. Im not being a horrible person slinging mud im just saying it how it is... he is not a great player and is NOT going to make it. All you have is blind faith i have FIVE years of data and references to throw at you so for gods sake get over him. he has been the most heavily backed player of the modern era and most heavily protected by the media. nobody has had so much support he just hasnt delivered on the extreme hype.

mozart i disagree with you he hasnt done anything great at 15. he just does less damage there. 15 is an easy place to stick failed 10s. it happened with gaffie, monty, frans, jaco and with lambie and soon probably goosen! lambie is just a dud

 Gonzo, Percy was a stand in 10 if he ever played there. He started out at center.

 he was tried out as the next 10, he was openly planned to be our 10. yeah he did start out at 13. but after failing at 10 ended up a t 15.

Mozart
To say that Lambie does nothing better than Morne  Steyn is really not the truth.  For one thing Morne is robotic and is a poor decision-maker.   Since he has to be told in advance what he has to do in given ciorcumstances - he normally goes of  the rails.
Take a typical case on Saturday against Argentina.    At minute 56-57 th Springboks revoerd a vreakdiown ball from just meters within the SA half - and there was a 5 to 3 overlap in eidence outside of him.  Morne made a very poor strategiic kick - eliminating an excellent attacking opportunity.    Aside from the booing of the crowd - he must have got anther message from the coaches as well.   Afterwards he started to pass the ball  even the 22 - but the opportunity was gone and it was even dangerous - given the circumstances.    That is standard Morne - the moral of the story is that Morne is clueless when it comes to whether to pass or to kick balls.       
His kicking game is also problematic - he can kick balls long distances,  but they are so predictable and aimless that they are covered with ease by opposing recipients.   Most kicks are thus mere handovers of possession to the opposition.   
You may wonder why Morne was not seected ahead of Pollard for the test this coming weekend.   The incident I mentioned above and the charge down kick which nearly let to a try by the opposition - must have been the final straw insofar as Meyer was concerned.   
Accept fact - other than being an 80% effective goal kicker - Morne is otherwise a mess - a poor flyhalf with nos trategic nous and incapable of really reading games and varying tactics accordingly.   That is the reason the Stade Francais management rarely use him to start at flyhalf and even in the case of using him from the bench = they limit his exposire.
The above caqn be i;;ustrated by a huge number of examples going back over years. When Morne's goal kicking abilities deserted him in 2012 - even Meyer had to drop him like a hot potato - because that was the one thing he could do - for the rest he was mediocre.
Even though you regularly denigrate Lambie - he is an entirely different player - he can read games, he can change strategies accordingly, he attacks the gain line himself (something Morne does once in a blue moon) and he is a better defender as well.   Mornbe better than Lambie - that indeed is a jok.       

Bozo are you still talking rugby.......geez  

 Bonzo
I never watched a game where Monty played at 13.  In the famous Pretoria match where SA beat Australia by 63-22 - Pery played at 12 and he was magnificent in tha t position.   He was then moved to 15 by Mallett and was not a regular in that position in the Mallett years - went to play in Wales and was brought back by White and selected at 15.   
Playing at 13 - it just did not happen.    

 Oh dear.  The reading comprehension problem raising its head again.  

Rock are you talking comprehension.....do you know what that big word means?  

Crikey, what next?? ridiculous.."Dutchman or man from Holland, because the first will be removed....lolz..." removed as if it's a swear word or derogatory...now I've seen it all...sifting and straining at tiny little gnats whilst swallowing camels. This is absolutely really stupid whilst profanities and f words abound on this forum, Dutchman is seen as offensive...what utter non sense and hypocracy...I've got Irish blood and French blood on grandad and granma's side and I don't burst into tears if I'm called Mick or Froggy. Viva..Michael Collins and Charles De Gaulle...

 Basjan, there will be some growing pains untill the filter is finetuned. Vasbyt boet.

Monty never played 10 or 13....absolutely no so. He started 4 times as Bok flyhalf in 2000 and 2001. And his great try against Oz in 97 was scored while playing 13.

 Viljoen had him in more than 4  games at 10, but some as reserve. thw point qas that the experiment failed with viljoens bok suppirters attacking model and monty ended 15 like the other guys i listed. that was the point.

What the chaps aren't getting with Lambie is, like Monty, he has no flyhalf MO. He doesn't grab hold of the game. The fullback role is much more defined.

 Mozart
That is eacatly the problem with Fransie and Morne - they do not grab hold of the game and they dio not read games properly - so both a definite no-no's as flyhalfs.  I cannot see a role for them at full back either - since they are speed-deficient.  So where to with those two?

Not according to the most important metric...winning.