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FORUM / RUGBY /  The World is becoming an ugly place from a political perspective.

The World is becoming an ugly place from a political perspective.

Started by clevermike65 REPLIES1,032 VIEWS· 17 Sept 2014, 01:04
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PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
19 Sept 2014, 13:30
#41
19 Sept 2014, 13:30#41
Yeah CC, you are probably one of those people who think homos3xuality is a "choice". Homos3xuality has been observed in over 450 species in nature. I guess they "choose" it as well? I'm am not a "poef", but I'm smart enough to know people don't have a choice in their s3xual orientation, so to discriminate against them on that basis is the same as discriminating against them based of their race, another thing they have no control over. But let the personal insults flow. It's all you really have, isn't it?
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
19 Sept 2014, 13:33
#42
19 Sept 2014, 13:33#42
Really do not wanna get into a huge debate about morality...again. Just makes me sad to see unfounded hatred. It doesn't get us anywhere...EVER. 
Racism, sexism, classicism, homophobia etc etc. Just boundaries that prevent us from having a better human perspective of the world, one that would benefit us all.   


CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
19 Sept 2014, 13:38
#43
19 Sept 2014, 13:38#43
 
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!

Listen Poef, don't go and get all emotional on me just cause you fantasize about an-uses and I don't.

The female form is by a long s hot more than enough for me.

Oh ---- waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaaaaaa ... so you have the urge to sodomize the ladies as well, huh?

Aren't you a piece of work.

Must be your breeding. You come out of a perverted home?

Piece of trash.



CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
19 Sept 2014, 13:49
#44
19 Sept 2014, 13:49#44
 
Pakie - I guess your right. It's all I have.

You taking Arthur on for his stand point is fine, right? Me taking you filthy qu-eers on seems isn't fine at all?

I'm merely to accept your filthty past time as normal, right? An acceptable practice.

Ain't gonna happen.

Don't try shove your acceptance of this perverted filthy act down my throat.

Kapeesh?








PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
19 Sept 2014, 13:52
#45
19 Sept 2014, 13:52#45
" Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!

Listen Poef, don't go and get all emotional on me just cause you fantasize about an-uses and I don't.

The female form is by a long shot more than enough for me. 

Oh ---- waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaaaaaa ... so you have the urge to sodomize the ladies as well, huh?

Aren't you a piece of work.

Must be your breeding. You come out of a perverted home? 

Piece of trash."


...unadulterated Christianity at its utmost. 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
19 Sept 2014, 14:16
#46
19 Sept 2014, 14:16#46
 
Yeah ... you got me, Bum.

I'm a Christian ... a failed one ... but a Christian none the less.

You on the other hand are a ... well, we both now know what you are, don't we?



PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
19 Sept 2014, 14:53
#47
19 Sept 2014, 14:53#47
I fear you have  no idea what I am CC
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
19 Sept 2014, 15:22
#48
19 Sept 2014, 15:22#48
 
Yeah ... and don't give a shy e either ...
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
19 Sept 2014, 15:55
#49
19 Sept 2014, 15:55#49
 I personally dont give a stuff what consenting adults do in private .Aint none of my business.
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
19 Sept 2014, 21:13
#50
19 Sept 2014, 21:13#50
Well yes, Mike, History is and was my favourite subject too and still...I read history like most people read novels...never can get enough...love Churchill and yes as a novel Tolstoy's "War and Peace" absoslute masterpiece as is Tchaikovsky's music composition...even superior to Mozart and Beethoven...lolz...imo.

Pity, the common herd doesn't read history...so much can be learnt from it if you discount the propaganda...my wife is Russian, very intelligent and comes from great family...both parents alive...dad in space research in Korelev and grand-dad passed away...one of the fighters and survivors of Stalingrad...a huge and tough man. Surprisingly we got on before he passed on...my wife was interpreter...just adored this man...had a lovely nature but as tough as boot leather.

This documentry might be seen as propaganda to most Western people (ironically done by Americans) but I found out it's believable once you get to mix and get to know these people. I really love them very much.

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
19 Sept 2014, 21:27
#51
19 Sept 2014, 21:27#51
 Well, I never did  

I amongst fellow Historians, am I ?  
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
19 Sept 2014, 23:11
#52
19 Sept 2014, 23:11#52
 A v ery correct article about what's going on all over the world, Israel-Palestine, Siria, Ukraine, etc., and who is responsible for.

Breaking the Last Taboo Gaza and the Threat of World War by JOHN PILGER

“There is a taboo,” said the visionary Edward Said, “on telling the truth about Palestine and the great destructive force behind Israel.  Only when this truth is out can any of us be free.”


For many people, the truth is out now.  At last, they know.  Those once intimidated into silence can’t look away now. Staring at them from their TV, laptop, phone, is proof of the barbarism of the Israeli state and the great destructive force of its mentor and provider, the United States, the cowardice of European governments, and the collusion of others, such as Canada and Australia, in this epic crime.


The attack on Gaza was an attack on all of us. The siege of Gaza is a siege of all of us. The denial of justice to Palestinians is a symptom of much of humanity under siege and a warning that the threat of a new world war is growing by the day.


When Nelson Mandela called the struggle of Palestine “the greatest moral issue of our time”, he spoke on behalf of true civilisation, not that which empires invent.  In Latin America, the governments of Brazil, Chile, Venezuela, Bolivia, El Salvador, Peru and Ecuador have made their stand on Gaza. Each of these countries has known its own dark silence when immunity for mass murder was sponsored by the same godfather in Washington that answered the cries of children in Gaza with more ammunition to kill them.


Unlike Netanyahu and his killers, Washington’s pet fascists in Latin America didn’t concern themselves with moral window dressing. They simply murdered, and left the bodies on rubbish dumps.  For Zionism, the goal is the same: to dispossess and ultimately destroy an entire human society: a truth that 225 Holocaust survivors and their descendants have compared with te genesis of genocide.

Nothing has changed since the Zionists’ infamous “Plan D” in 1948 that ethnically cleansed an entire people. Recently, on the website of the Times of Israel were the words: “Genocide is Permissible”. A deputy speaker of the Knesset, the Israeli parliament, Moshe Feiglin, demands a policy of mass expulsion into concentration camps. An MP, Ayelet Shaked, whose party is a member of the governing coalition, calls for the extermination of Palestinian mothers to prevent them giving birth to what she calls “little snakes”.


For years, reporters have watched Israeli soldiers bait Palestinian children by abusing them through loud-speakers. Then they shoot them dead.  For years, reporters have known about Palestinian women about to give birth and refused passage through a roadblock to a hospital; and the baby has died, and sometimes the mother.


For years, reporters have known about Palestinian doctors and ambulance crews given permission by Israeli commanders to attend the wounded or remove the dead, only to be shot through the head.

For years, reporters have known about stricken people prevented from getting life-saving treatment, or shot dead when they’ve tried to reach a clinic for chemotherapy treatment. One elderly lady with a walking stick was murdered in this way – a bullet in her back.

When I put the facts of this crime to Dori Gold, a senior adviser to the Israeli prime minister, he said, “Unfortunately in every kind of warfare there are cases of civilians who are accidentally killed. But the case you cite was not terrorism.


Terrorism means putting the cross-hairs of the sniper’s rifle on a civilian deliberately.”


I replied, “That’s exactly what happened.”

“No,” he said, “it did not happen.”


Such a lie or delusion is repeated unerringly by Israel’s apologists. As the former New York Times reporter Chris Hedges points out, the reporting of such an atrocity invariably ends up as “caught in the cross-fire”. For as long as I have covered the Middle East, much if not most of the western media has colluded in this way.

In one of my films, a Palestinian cameraman, Imad Ghanem, lies helpless while soldiers from the “most moral army in the world” blew both his legs off.  This atrocity was given two lines on the BBC website. Thirteen journalists were killed by Israel in its latest bloodfest in Gaza. All were Palestinian. Who knows their names?


Something is different now. There is a huge revulsion across the world; and the  voices of sensible liberalism are worried. Their hand wringing and specious choir of “equal blame” and “Israel’s right to defend itself” will not wash any more; neither will the smear of anti-Semitism. Neither will their selective cry that “something must be done” about Islamic fanatics but nothing must be done about Zionist fanatics.


One sensible liberal voice, the novelist Ian McEwan, was being celebrated as a sage by the Guardian while the children of Gaza were blown to bits. This is the same Ian McEwan who ignored the pleading of Palestinians not to accept the Jerusalem Prize for literature. “If I only went to countries that I approve of, I probably would never get out of bed,” said McEwan.


If they could speak, the dead of Gaza might say: Stay in bed, great novelist, for your very presence smoothes the bed of racism, apartheid, ethnic cleansing and murder – no matter the weasel words you uttered as you claimed your prize.

Understanding the sophistry and power of liberal propaganda is key to understanding why Israel’s outrages endure; why the world looks on; why sanctions are never applied to Israel; and why nothing less than a total boycott of everything Israeli is now a measure of basic human decency.

The most incessant propaganda says Hamas is committed to the destruction of Israel.  Khaled Hroub, the Cambridge University scholar considered a world leading authority on Hamas, says this phrase is “never used or adopted by Hamas, even in its most radical statements”.  The oft-quoted “anti-Jewish” 1988 Charter was the work of “one individual and made public without appropriate Hamas consensus …. The author was one of the ‘old guard’ “; the document is regarded as an embarrassment and never cited.


Hamas has repeatedly offered a 10-year truce with Israel and has long settled for a two-state solution. When Medea Benjamin, the fearless Jewish American activist, was in Gaza, she carried a letter from Hamas leaders to President Obama that made clear the government of Gaza wanted peace with Israel.  It was ignored. I personally know of many such letters carried in good faith, ignored or dismissed.


The unforgivable crime of Hamas is a distinction almost never reported: it is the only Arab government to have been freely and democratically elected by its people. Worse, it has now formed a government of unity with the Palestinian Authority.  A single, resolute Palestinian voice – in the General Assembly, the Human Rights Council and the International Criminal Court – is the most feared threat.

Since 2002, a pioneering media unit at Glasgow University has produced remarkable studies of reporting and propaganda in Israel/Palestine. Professor Greg Philo and his colleagues were shocked to find a public ignorance compounded by TV news reporting. The more people watched, the less they knew.


Greg Philo says the problem is not “bias” as such. Reporters and producers are as moved as anyone by the suffering of Palestinians; but so imposing is the power structure of the media — as an extension of the state and its vested interests — that critical facts and historical context are routinely suppressed.

Incredibly, less than nine per cent of young viewers interviewed by  Professor Philo’s team were aware that Israel was the occupying power, and that the illegal settlers were Jewish; many believed them to be Palestinian. The term “Occupied Territories” was seldom explained. Words such as “murder”, “atrocity”, “cold-blooded killing” were used only to describe the deaths of Israelis.


Recently, a BBC reporter, David Loyn, was critical of another British journalist, Jon Snow of Channel 4 News. Snow was so moved by what he had seen in Gaza he went on YouTube to make a humanitarian appeal. What concerned the BBC man was that Snow had breached protocol and been emotional in his YouTube piece.

“Emotion,” wrote Loyn, “is the stuff of propaganda and news is against propaganda”. Did he write this with a straight face?  In fact, Snow’s delivery was calm.  His crime was to have strayed outside the boundaries of fake impartiality. Unforgivably, he didn’t censor himself.


In 1937, with Adolf Hitler in power, Geoffrey Dawson, editor of The Times in London, wrote the following in his diary: “I spend my nights in taking out anything which will hurt [German] susceptibilities and in dropping in little things which are intended to soothe them.”


On 30 July, the BBC offered viewers a masterclass in the Dawson Principle. The diplomatic correspondent of the programme Newsnight, Mark Urban, gave five reasons why the Middle East was in turmoil. None included the historic or contemporary role of the British government.  The Cameron government’s dispatch of £8 billion worth of arms and military equipment to Israel was airbrushed. Britain’s massive arms shipment to Saudi Arabia was airbrushed. Britain’s role in the destruction of Libya was airbrushed. Britain’s support for the tyranny in Egypt was airbrushed.


As for the British invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, they didn’t happen, either.

The only expert witness on this BBC programme was an academic called Toby Dodge from the London School of Economics. What viewers needed to know was that Dodge had been a special adviser to David Petraeus, the American general largely responsible for the disasters in Iraq and Afghanistan. But this, too, was airbrushed.


In matters of war and peace, BBC-style illusions of impartiality and credibility do more to limit and control public discussion than tabloid distortion. As Greg Philo pointed out, Jon Snow’s moving commentary on YouTube was limited to whether the Israeli assault on Gaza was proportionate or reasonable. What was missing – and is almost always missing – was the essential truth of the longest military occupation in modern times: a criminal enterprise backed by western governments from Washington to London to Canberra.


As for the myth that “vulnerable” and “isolated” Israel is surrounded by enemies, Israel is actually surrounded by strategic allies. The Palestinian Authority, bankrolled, armed and directed by the US, has long colluded with Tel Aviv. Standing shoulder to shoulder with Netanyahu are the tyrannies in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Qatar — if the World Cup ever gets to Qatar, count on Mossad to run the security.


Resistance is humanity at its bravest and most noble. The resistance in Gaza is rightly compared with the 1943 Jewish uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto – which also dug tunnels and deployed tactics of subterfuge and surprise against an overpowering military machine. The last surviving leader of the Warsaw uprising, Marek Edelman, wrote a letter of solidarity to the Palestinian resistance, comparing it with the ZOB, his ghetto fighters. The letter began: “Commanders of the Palestine military, paramilitary and partisan operations – and to all soldiers [of Palestine].”


Dr. Mads Gilbert is a Norwegian doctor renowned for his heroic work in Gaza.  On 8 August, Dr. Gilbert returned to his hometown, Tronso in Norway which, as he pointed out, the Nazis had occupied for seven years. He said, “Imagine being back in 1945 and we in Norway did not win the liberation struggle, did not throw out the occupier. Imagine the occupier remaining in our country, taking it piece by piece, for decades upon decades, and banishing us to the leanest areas, and taking the fish in the sea and the water beneath us, then bombing our hospitals, our ambulance workers, our schools, our homes.


“Would we have given up and waved the white flag? No, we would not! And this is the situation in Gaza. This is not a battle between terrorism and democracy. Hamas is not the enemy Israel is fighting. Israel is waging a war against the Palestinian people’s will to resist. It is the Palestinian people’s dignity that they will not accept this.


“In 1938, the Nazis called the Jews Untermenschen – subhuman. Today, Palestinians are treated as a subhuman people who can be slaughtered without any in power reacting.

“So I have returned to Norway, a free country, and this country is free because we had a resistance movement, because occupied nations have the right to resist, even with weapons – it’s stated in international law. And the Palestinian people’s resistance in Gaza is admirable: a struggle for us all.”


There are dangers in telling this truth, in breaching what Edward Said called “the last taboo”.  My documentary, Palestine Is Still the Issue, was nominated for a Bafta, a British academy award, and praised by the Independent Television Commission for its “journalistic integrity” and the “care and thoroughness with which it was researched.”  Yet, within minutes of the film’s broadcast on Britain’s ITV Network, a shock wave struck – a deluge of emails described me as a “demonic psychopath”, “a purveyor of hate and evil”, “an anti-Semite of the most dangerous kind”.  Much of this was orchestrated by Zionists in the US who could not possibly have seen the film. Death threats arrived at a rate of one a day.

Something similar happened to the Australian commentator Mike Carlton last month. In his regular column in the Sydney Morning Herald, Carlton produced a rare piece of journalism about Israel and the Palestinians; he identified the oppressors and their victims. He was careful to limit his attack to “a new and brutal Israel dominated by the hard-line, right-wing Likud party of Netanyahu”. Those who had previously run the Zionist state, he implied, belonged to “a proud liberal tradition”.

On cue, the deluge struck. He was called “a bag of Nazi slime, a Jew-hating racist.”  He was threatened repeatedly, and he emailed his attackers to “get fucked”.


The Herald demanded he apologise. When he refused, he was suspended, then he resigned.  According to the Herald’s publisher, Sean Aylmer, the company “expects much higher standards from its columnists.”


The “problem” of Carlton’s acerbic, often solitary liberal voice in a country in which Rupert Murdoch controls 70 per cent of the capital city press — Australia is the world’s first murdocracy — would be solved twice over. The Australian Human Rights Commission is to investigate complaints against Carlton under the Racial Discrimination Act, which outlaws any public act or utterance that is “reasonably likely … to offend, insult, humiliate another person or a group of people” on the basic of their race, colour or national or ethnic origin.


In contrast to safe, silent Australia — where the Carltons are made extinct — real journalism is alive in Gaza.  I often speak on the phone with Mohammed Omer, an extraordinary young Palestinian journalist, to whom I presented, in 2008, the Martha Gellhorn Prize for Journalism.  Whenever I called him during the assault on Gaza, I could hear the whine of drones, the explosion of missiles. He interrupted one call to attend to children huddled outside waiting for transport amidst the explosions. When I spoke to him on 30 July, a single Israeli F-19 fighter had just slaughtered 19 children. On 20 August, he described how Israeli drones had effectively “rounded up” a village so that they could savagely gunned down.

Every day, at sunrise, Mohammed looks for families who have been bombed. He records their stories, standing in the rubble of their homes; he takes their pictures. He goes to the hospital. He goes to the morgue. He goes to the cemetery. He queues for hours for bread for his own family. And he watches the sky. He sends two, three, four dispatches a day. This is real journalism.

“They are trying to annihilate us,” he told me. “But the more they bomb us, the stronger we are. They will never win.”


The great crime committed in Gaza is a reminder of something wider and menacing to us all.


Since 2001, the United States and its allies have been on a rampage.  In Iraq, at least 700,000 men, woman and children are dead as a result. The rise of jihadists – in a country where there was none – is the result.  Known as al-Qaeda and now the Islamic State, modern jihadism was invented by US and Britain, assisted by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The original aim was to use and develop an Islamic fundamentalism that had barely existed in much of the Arab world in order to undermine pan-Arab movements and secular governments. By the 1980s, this had become a weapon to destroy the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. The CIA called it Operation Cyclone; and a cyclone it turned out to be, with its unleashed fury blowing back in the faces of its creators. The attacks of 9/11 and in London in July, 2005 were the result of this blowback, as were the recent, gruesome murders of the American journalists James Foley and Steven Sotloff. For more than a year, the Obama administration armed the killers of these two young men — then known as ISIS in Syria — in order to destroy the secular government in Damascus.

The West’s principal “ally” in this imperial mayhem is the medieval state where beheadings are routinely and judicially carried out — Saudi Arabia. Whenever a member of the British Royal Family is sent to this barbaric place, you can bet your bottom petrodollar that the British government wants to sell the sheiks more fighter planes, missiles, manacles. Most of the 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, which bankrolls jihadists from Syria to Iraq.


Why must we live in this state of perpetual war?

The immediate answer lies in the United States, where a secret and unreported coup has taken place.  A group known as the Project for a New American Century, the inspiration of Dick Cheney and others,  came to power with the administration of George W Bush. Once known in Washington as the “crazies”, this extreme sect believes in what the US Space Command calls “full spectrum dominance”.

Under both Bush and Obama, a19th-century imperial mentality has infused all departments of state. Raw militarism is ascendant; diplomacy is redundant.  Nations and governments are judged as useful or expendable: to be bribed or threatened or “sanctioned”.


On 31 July, the National Defense Panel in Washington published a remarkable document that called for the United States to prepare to fight six major wars simultaneously. At the top of the list were Russia and China – nuclear powers.

In one sense, a war against Russia has already begun. While the world watched horrified as Israel assaulted Gaza, similar atrocities in eastern Ukraine were barely news. At the time of writing, two Ukrainian cities of Russian-speaking people – Donetsk and Luhansk – are under siege: their people and hospitals and schools blitzed by a regime in Kiev that came to power in a putsch led by neo-Nazis backed and paid for by the United States. The coup was the climax of what the Russian political observer Sergei Glaziev describes as a 20-year “grooming of Ukrainian Nazis aimed at Russia”.  Actual fascism has risen again in Europe and not one European leader has spoken against it, perhaps because the rise of fascism across Europe is now a truth that dares not speak its name.


With its fascist past, and present, Ukraine is now a CIA theme park, a colony of Nato and the International Monetary Fund. The fascist coup in Kiev in February was the boast of US assistant secretary of state Victoria Nuland, whose “coup budget” ran to $5 billion. But there was a setback.  Moscow prevented the seizure of its legitimate Black Sea naval base in Russian-speaking Crimea. A referendum and annexation quickly followed. Represented in the West as the Kremlin’s “aggression”, this serves to turn truth on its head and cover Washington’s goals: to drive a wedge between a “pariah” Russia and its principal trading partners in Europe and eventually to break up the Russian Federation. American missiles already surround Russia; Nato’s military build-up in the former Soviet republics and eastern Europe is the biggest since the second world war.


During the cold war, this would have risked a nuclear holocaust. The risk has returned as anti-Russian misinformation reaches crescendos of hysteria in the US and Europe. A textbook case is the shooting down of a Malaysian airliner in July. Without a single piece of evidence, the US and its Nato allies and their media machines blamed ethnic Russian “separatists” in Ukraine and implied that Moscow was ultimately responsible. An editorial in The Economist accused Vladimir Putin of mass murder. The cover of Der Spiegel used faces of the victims and bold red type, “Stoppt Putin Jetzt!” (Stop Putin Now!) In the New York Times, Timothy Garton Ash substantiated his case for “Putin’s deadly doctrine” with personal abuse of “a short, thickset man with a rather ratlike face”.


The Guardian’s role has been important. Renowned for its investigations, the newspaper has made no serious attempt to examine who shot the aeroplane down and why, even though a wealth of material from credible sources shows that Moscow was as shocked as the rest of the world, and the airliner may well have been brought down by the Ukrainian regime.


With the White House offering no verifiable evidence – even though US satellites would have observed the shooting-down — the Guardian’s Moscow correspondent Shaun Walker stepped into the breach. “My audience with the Demon of Donetsk,” was the front- page headline over Walker’s breathless interview with one Igor Bezler. “With a walrus moustache, a fiery temper and a reputation for brutality,” he wrote, “Igor Bezler is the most feared of all the rebel leaders in eastern Ukraine …nicknamed The Demon  … If the Ukrainian security services, the SBU, are to be believed, the Demon and a group of his men were responsible for shooting down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 … as well as allegedly bringing down MH17, the rebels have shot down 10 Ukrainian aircraft.” Demon Journalism requires no further evidence.


Demon Journalism makes over a fascist-contaminated junta that seized power in Kiev as a respectable “interim government”. Neo-Nazis become mere “nationalists”. “News” sourced to the Kiev junta ensures the suppression of a US-run coup and the junta’s systematic ethnic cleaning of the Russian-speaking population of eastern Ukraine. That this should happen in the borderland through which the original Nazis invaded Russia, extinguishing some 22 million Russian lives, is of no interest. What matters is a Russian “invasion” of Ukraine that seems difficult to prove beyond familiar satellite images that evoke Colin Powell’s fictional presentation to the United Nations “proving” that Saddam Hussein had WMD. “You need to know that accusations of a major Russian ‘invasion’ of Ukraine appear not to be supported by reliable intelligence,” wrote a group of former senior US intelligence officials and analysts, the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, to German Chancellor Angela Merkel. “Rather, the ‘intelligence’ seems to be of the same dubious, politically ‘fixed’ kind used 12 years ago to ‘justify’ the U.S.-led attack on Iraq.”


The jargon is “controlling the narrative”. In his seminal Culture and Imperialism, Edward Said was more explicit: the western media machine was now capable of penetrating deep into the consciousness of much of humanity with a “wiring” as influential as that of the imperial navies of the 19th century. Gunboat journalism, in other words. Or war by media.


Yet, a critical public intelligence and resistance to propaganda does exist; and a second superpower is emerging – the power of public opinion, fuelled by the internet and social media.

The false reality created by false news delivered by media gatekeepers may prevent some of us knowing that this new superpower is stirring in country after country: from the Americas to Europe, Asia to Africa.  It is a moral insurrection, exemplified by the whistleblowers Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning and Julian Assange. The question begs: will we break our silence while there is time?


When I was last in Gaza, driving back to the Israeli checkpoint, I caught sight of two Palestinian flags through the razor wire.  Children had made flagpoles out of sticks tied together and they’d climbed on a wall and held the flag between them.

The children do this, I was told, whenever there are foreigners around, because they want to show the world they are there — alive, and brave, and undefeated.


This article is adapted from John Pilger’s Edward Said Memorial Lecture, delivered in Adelaide, Australia, on 11 September. Pilger can be reached through his website: www.johnpilger.com


CA
canrugbyClub Pro640 posts
20 Sept 2014, 02:43
#53
20 Sept 2014, 02:43#53
Did someone just quote Stone Gossard??
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
20 Sept 2014, 08:22
#54
20 Sept 2014, 08:22#54
Hi can rugby, it's been a while, glad you are back. In the absence of rugby we have wondered into other topics  
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
20 Sept 2014, 11:58
#55
20 Sept 2014, 11:58#55
Dr Win...a good suggestion to Admin Moderator would be to create another section for non rugby related topics...just as cricket is separate...what do you think?

PS Here's something for the ladies, Dr Wins missus Cloudy and Becs...I'm certain they will like this

http://youtu.be/cE7W8q905Q4





BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Sept 2014, 13:28
#56
20 Sept 2014, 13:28#56
Seb best leave it all on one board as it makes things more interactive.Homosexuality is a perversion and something that is too disgusting to think about. Only a perv would appreciate a man kissing a man or find it acceptable. One wonders if Plum isn't at least a latent perv if he doesnt find all this stuff totally disgusting.
Having turned away from God and with their hearts darkened as a consequence - " God gave them over in sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies (Homos have shorter lifespans I understand) They exchanged the truth of God for a LIE. ...... Because of this God gave the over to SHAMEFUL LUSTS. Even women exhanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed INDECENT acts with other men, and received in themselves the due PENALTY for their perversion". Romans chapter 1 versus 21 to 27. 
Read Romans 28 to 32 as well. It descibes how this penalty works itself out and so one understands the reason for the mess the world is in. It concludes by saying that- "they not only continue to do these very things, but also approve of those who practice them.It speaks about God giving them over to a depraved mind. This is exactly what we are seeing is these discusssions so often.Make no mistake about it approving of homosexuality is purely a reflection of a depraved mind given over to perversion because it has rejected God.
Here we have Plum who has rejected God now quite comfortable with the perversion of homosexuality. Exactly so. Dawkin now is postulating the possiblity of aliens to explain information in the universe. A more depraved mind would be hard to find.Then we have the idea of the multiverse of an infinite number of universes so that there might be a chance in terms of probablity to explain a fine tuned universe etc etc. No evidence but a desparate attempt to give some credence to there being no GOD when the evidence is so clear. That too reflects the outcome of  depraved minds at work. There is NO end to the lies they will propogate. Their stance is that regardless of evidence we cannot countenance any idea of GOD. "Why do the nations rage and the people plot in vain? The kings (Rulers) of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the LORD and against His ANNOINTED ONE (The Christ). "Let us break their chains"  they say " and throw off their fetters" They see things like the 10 commandments as chains and fetters and will not have God to rule over them. BUT Guess who is ruling over them. As Bob Dylan sang - you gotta serve somebody. Guess who deals out hard wages!!! Brings a man down into the gutter. Is like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour. Yes Satan himself. His handiwork is everywhere and the darkened mind then says it is the HOLY GOD's doing. That is a very depraved mind in action.I was sickened like never before to hear Christopher Hitchkins and also Dawkins spewing forth their GOD HATE speach. It was like listening to a man sold out to Satan and a doomed. Hitchkins is dead but Dawkins is still alive - may he come to truth before it is too late.
Hence today child murders in the form of abortions are okay - simply a mothers right to choose etc etc etc. Each fallen creature decides what is right and wrong and with their darkened depraved minds can easily get it horribly wrong.The miracle actually is that a HOLY GOD has not wiped humanity out. But HE is slow to anger and swift to bless. He makes his rain to shine on the just and the unjust. Great is His mercy and kindness. And out of all this mess He rescues and saves having himself paid a price beyond all measure to satsify justice. He takes upon himself our judgement for all have sinned.Oh how great is our God!!!The good news is that Jesus the Christ will be coming back and will rule the nations. Apart from that don't think things will ever be right. The 7 year period I referred to will be so bad the that the bible says if those days had not been shortened all would perish.
Until that return there will be wars and rumaours of wars - nation rising against nation etc etc - the out come of a deapraved mind



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Sept 2014, 15:59
#57
20 Sept 2014, 15:59#57
 Beeno
It is obvious that the New Testament dealt with social problems encountered at the time of writing and those often enough refer to the re;igious and social practices encountered at the time that impact on the Christian religion.   
Freom a socal perspctive the issue of homosexuality  has been around from the start of mankind and has been mentioned often in the Old Testament where reference is made to "skand seuns"  in temples.   Alexxander the Great was homosexual and the practice was general in the Mediterranean area and further east - the known world area at the time of writing of the Bible.   It was -
*   indicated in ancient temples in India;*   a social norm amongst the Spartans - who was bonded into an army by enfring relationships between men to bond them into the Spartan army;*   a pactice in the said area to have sex with men for pleasure and with women for proocreation.
Since it was generally practiced in biblical times and religiously unacceptable in biblical terms it was condemned and rightfully so.   However, there is one issue that was not dealt at the time and that was the psychological aspect of the siad behaviour.   That has received some modern evaluations and thoseare why people are more tolerant to the problem than they used to be in biblical times.   Toleration does not necessarily mean acceptance - hence my rather soft approach on the relevant issue.   Does the present scenario impact on workd polticis - I frankly do not think it does - there are much more majpr economic and social issues that does impact on the totally unaccptable situation we encounter at present. 
The much more serious political issue at present is religious extremism - be it of a Christian, Islamic of Jewish nature.   Religious extremism is nothing new - it has been as old as mankind as well.   Insead of creating peace - it created wars betwen people and nations.    Religion can cause the worst atrocities ever known too mankind and so can  anti-religioius fanatics.
Take for example the issue of communism - originally based on the ancient Jewish ecomnomic practices dealt with in the Torah.   It found acceptance in some countries and that caused major problems that is with us until the present time.   In Tzarist Russia religion was a natural resistance to materialism preached by the Communists  and the same applied to China.   The result ws hundereds of millions of people in areas where Communissm held sway were murdered by state sponsored means t ensure maintenance of the system.     
The other issue is the impact of economy on the world situation.   Whether we like it or not wars basically are the result of economic interests of nations.   Tha at least has been the caswe over the past 200 years from the time of Napolean.  To make matters worse Goverments hav often through in religion to justify acts with basically goes against the basic tendecies of allreligions - as a justification for mayhem.
 Can the present scenario be regarded as accaptable?   I do not think so - and that is where the world is really moving to self-destruction in line 2with biblical prophesies. 
Does religion in fact preach war as an acceptable norm?  I do not think so.  Is religion used by rogue polititcians to enhance hatred between peoples of the world as a means to promote their ungodly objectives? It certainly is.  
               
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Sept 2014, 21:35
#58
20 Sept 2014, 21:35#58
 Ab ass  it matters not a dot what the media or anybody thinks. The fact is that God gave the land of Israel to the Jewish people for an everlasting possession. He warned them that if they forsook his ways he would remove his hedge of protection and they would be scattered around the world. Nevertheless he promised in the latter days to bring them back to the land.There is in fact a great deal of prophecy surrounding Israel but their re-establishment is major fullfilment of biblical prophecy.Naturally the nations raging against the Lord and His annointed hate this. Israel has implacable enemies wishing their destruction fueled by the spirit of anti Christ at work in the world.This is a terrible article with such bias it' s not worth rebutting. Worthy of those God haters Hitckinson and Dawkin.Its all the same spirit at work.The LORD bless and protect Israel and defend her from all her enemies and fulfill the promises that are still there for the Jewish people in the future. Many times Satan has tried to wipe them from the face of the earth but has never succeded and never will.




BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Sept 2014, 22:17
#59
20 Sept 2014, 22:17#59
Mike the bible does not advocate communistic economics. Property posession is entrenched and one is not to covet ones neighbours goods etc.Communism was satanic in origin. If you doubt read marx's work Oulanem which I will post below. Result about 100 million die.
One has a right to defend oneself but not to kill for gain etc. 
War is simply a natural outworking of fallen manking. Sin has many outworkings and all sin.One day wars will cease  but that is because God will reign over us. Until that time there will be wars - inevitable. 
The holacaust has not been an isolated case. Crime on the streets and all sorts of evil abound. Society battles to keep a lid on things to stop itself slipping into the abyss.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Sept 2014, 22:21
#60
20 Sept 2014, 22:21#60
 Mike here it is. 

"Marx, it is said, was deeply humane. He was dominated by one idea: how to help the exploited masses. What impoverishes them, he maintained, is capitalism. Once this rotten system is overthrown, after a transitional period of dictatorship of the proletariat, a society will emerge in which everyone will work according to his abilities in factories and farms belonging to the collective, and will be rewarded according to his needs. There will be... no wars, no revolutions, only an everlasting, universal brotherhood.... [p.5]

"Marx writes: "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of man is a requisite for their real happiness. The call to abandon their illusions about their conditions is a call to abandon a condition which requires illusion...."[p.6]

"Marx was anti-religious because religion obstructs the fulfillment of the Communist ideal which he considers the only answer to the world's problems."[p 6]

"...a new Marx began to emerge. He writes in a poem, “I wish to avenge myself against the One who rules above.”[p.7] So he was convinced that there is One above who rules....

Marx belonged to a relatively well-to-do family. He had not hungered in his childhood. He was much better off than many fellow students. What produced this terrible hatred against God? No personal motive is known.  ...why should he have written these lines in his poem Invocation of One in Despair? [p.9]

So a god has snatched from me my all
In the curse and rack of destiny.
All his worlds are gone beyond recall!
Nothing but revenge is left to me!

I shall build my throne high overhead,
Cold, tremendous shall its summit be.
For its bulwark -- superstitious dread.
For its Marshall -- blackest agony.
[p.8]

The words “I shall build my throne high overhead” and the confession that from the one sitting on this throne will emanate only dread and agony, remind us of Lucifer’s proud boast: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13)

But why does Marx wish such a throne? The answer is found in a little-known drama which he also composed during his student years. It is called Oulanem. To explain this title a digression is needed.[p.9]

There exists a Satanist church. One of its rituals is the black mass which Satanist priests recite at midnight....An orgy follows... [pp.10-11]

We will be able to understand the drama Oulanem only in the light of a strange confession which Marx made in a poem called The Player, later down-played by both himself and his followers:

The hellish vapors rise and fill the brain,
Till I go mad and my heart is utterly changed.
See this sword? (In the bible the Word of God is likened to a Sword - a Beeno insert) The prince of darkness sold it to me. -
For me beats the time and gives the signs.
Ever more boldly I play the dance of death.
[p.12]

Now I quote from [Marx's] drama Oulanem:

And they are also Oulanem, Oulanem.
The name rings forth like death, rings forth
Until it dies away in a wretched crawl.
Stop, I’ve got it now! It rises from my soul....


Yet I have power within my youthful arms
To clench and crush you [i.e., personified humanity] with tempestuous force,
While for us both the abyss yawns in darkness.
You will sink down and I shall follow laughing,
Whispering in your ears, “Descend, come with me, friend.” 
[p.12]

The Bible which Marx had studied in his high school years... says that the devil will be bound by an angel and cast into the bottomless pit (abyssos in Greek: see Revelation 20:3). Marx wishes to draw the whole of mankind into this pit reserved for the devil and his angels....[pp.12-13]

Marx had loved the words of Mephistopheles in Faust, “Everything in existence is worth being destroyed.” Everything — including the proletariat and the comrades. Marx quoted these words.... Stalin acted on them and destroyed even his own family. [p.13]

The Satanist sect is not materialistic. It believes in eternal life. Oulanem, the person for whom Marx speaks, does not contest eternal life. He asserts it, but as a life of hate magnified to its extreme. It is worth noting that eternity for the devils means 'torment.” Thus Jesus was reproached by the demons: “Art you come hither to torment us before our time?” (Matthew 8:29)....

[Marx'] correspondence with his father testifies to his squandering great sums of money on pleasures and his constant quarreling with parental authority about this and other matters. Then he might have fallen in with the tenets of the highly secret Satanist church and received the rites of initiation. Satan, whom his worshippers see in their hallucinatory orgies, speaks through them. Thus Marx is only Satan’s mouthpiece when he utters in his poem Invocation of One in Despair the words, “I wish to avenge myself against the One who rules above.

Listen to the end of Oulanem:

If there is a Something which devours,
I’ll leap within it, though I bring the world to ruins—
The world which bulks between me and the abyss
I will smash to pieces with my enduring curses....

In Oulanem Marx does what the devil does: he consigns the entire human race to damnation. Oulanem is probably the only drama in the world in which all the characters are aware of their own corruption, which they flaunt and celebrate with conviction. In this drama there is no black and white... All are satanic, corrupt, and doomed.[p.15]  

When he wrote these things, Marx... was eighteen. His life’s program had already been established. There was no word about serving mankind, the proletariat, or socialism. He wished to bring the world to ruin. He wished to build for himself a throne whose bulwark should be human shudder.
The cursing of God by Christopher  Hitchkinson and Richard Dawkins is of the same spirit.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Sept 2014, 22:23
#61
20 Sept 2014, 22:23#61
 The son writes, "My holy of holies was rent asunder and new gods had to be installed."[p.16]

On March 2, 1837, Marx’s father writes to his son: “Your advancement, the dear hope to see your name being once of great repute, and your earthly well-being are not the only desires of my heart.... Only if your heart remains pure and beats humanly and if no demon will be able to alienate your heart from better feelings, only then will I be happy.” [p.16]                                                                  

What made a father express suddenly the fear of demonic influence upon a young son who until then had been a confessed Christian? Was it the poems he received as a present from his son for his 55th birthday? The following quotation is taken from Marx’s poem On Hegel:

Words I teach all mixed up into a devilish muddle.
Thus, anyone may think just what he chooses to think.
 [p.17]

In his poem The Pale Maiden, he writes:

Thus heaven I’ve forfeited, I know it full well.
My soul, once true to God, is chosen for hell.
 [p.20]


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Sept 2014, 22:35
#62
20 Sept 2014, 22:35#62
 Finally:

In his poem Human Pride, Marx admits that his aim is not to improve the world, reform or revolutionize it, but simply to ruin it and enjoy it being ruined:

With disdain I will throw my gauntlet full in the face of the world,
And see the collapse of this pygmy giant whose fall will not stifle my ardor.
Then will I wander godlike and victorious through the ruins of the world
And, giving my words an active force, I will feel equal to the Creator
[p.24]


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Sept 2014, 22:42
#63
20 Sept 2014, 22:42#63
Now why did so much of the world run after this satanist? Because they were walking in darkness and had no discernment. Minds darkened. 
I ask you Mike what is really at the bottom of all this. Setting one group against the other. A roaring lion seeking who he may devour. But hey God doesnt exist and neither does the devil. 
Man how blind or blinded can an oak get.  The universe created itself out of nothing and there are multiverses and the information encoded in the DNA was possibly done by advanced aliens ect etc etc. The fruit of darkened minds. The fool has said in his heart there is no God - the heart being representaive of the core being.Enough of this complete rubbish.

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
21 Sept 2014, 12:08
#64
21 Sept 2014, 12:08#64
Yes politicians have invariably been the cause of man's demise and will continue to do so...I just pity those who cannot see...it's useless to debate with blindness...it's so very sad.

Nevertheless there is beauty around...creation is magnificent...I love animals and nature and to believe this can evolve...is folly.

I love horses...saw this clip and would like to share with those with mutual feelings...

http://youtu.be/C7q4LUDIHIw


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
21 Sept 2014, 12:11
#65
21 Sept 2014, 12:11#65
 It does kind of drive me a lil crazy how calling for an end to loss to of innocent life in Palestine equates to anti-sematism.
Ultimately there is a big war machine that profits from death. My feeling is that we still view the world as it was, which is as various nations with alliances and common enemies. Instead of seeing what it really is, which is huge multi-national cooperations that dictate to politicians and hence to the man on the street who needs to be the next enemy. To make money for private shareholders.
We seem to think that conspiracies are things from movies, forgetting that when we look back at history there are more events that came about via conspiracy than just about any other social mechanism.
On the defense on homosexuals. I have familly members who I refuse to write off or judge because of being born a certain way. They are good people, some of the best people I know! I 100% accept anyone's right to be whoever they want to. To the point where I don't feel the words "faggot, homo etc etc" are an insult, because they are a product of nature - the same nature that brought me here. 
So first to FA...I am talking about acceptance of people...and you have told me that "The devil is in the details." I guess you are right. Hey there is something in your eye dude. Wait it's a log.
As for CC, what I was saying to you was that if you think being "a fa.g" is all about the "perversion" of an.al sex...then you must think that hetrose.xual relationships are all about se.x too. That ain't cool. But sure make your best attempts at insulting me. I won't go down to that level. I am sure you have your reasons for feeling so strongly. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Sept 2014, 12:53
#66
21 Sept 2014, 12:53#66
 Beeno
I reffered to the Torah - not the bible - as a Jew Marx was much more aware of the Torah teachings applicabkle to the Jewish religion than he could have been of the Bible.  Incidentally - the pirest form of coommunism is in fact found in Israel on the Kibbuts - where th property ois ownd by the workers and everyone is treated equally.
The concept of communism is a noble idea - the application turnd it into the cruelest for of Government the world has ever nown.
I once met a greagrand-nephe of Marx - Roley Arenstein - and had a long discussion of communism - he was banned for many eyars - but an absolute old gentleman.  He told em that what was practicedr in the world had nothing to do with the concept of communism - it was a dictatoship .    They used the teachings of Marx and created a monster.
But then the idea was detroyed by greed abd power lust - which shows that the ebst theoretical ideas could be aborted and destroyed.
Incidentally - our discussion turned to SA and apartherid and Arenstein told me - and he proved it - that it was based on a communist manifesto issues in 1915.  Was not surprised - many of the later Nationalist caboinet ministers were in their youh conec ted to the labour movement and had essentially communist leadership - refer to the idustiral strikes and serious bloodshed in 1914 and 1922 - for example.  The 1924 Government of Hertzog was an alliance between the then National Party and the Labour Party - whose membership was predominately Afrikaans.   Just as an aside Sand du Plessis - the later Administrator of the Free State - was one of the young Afrikkans communist leaders.  Braam Fischer's father was Prime Minter of the Free State prior to 1910 and served in Parliament as a member of the South Africa Party for years afterwards.   I still think that much ofhis father's ideology impacted on his son.
But Communism as we knows it in teh world is an unworkable system with very little chance of success and that is not the rpoblem in the world anymore.  Even China is not remotely communistic anymore.  They say they ae - but they enver really were.   
— END OF THREAD —

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