Things we are missing.....based on yesterday

1) A creative fullback who can slice into the line or punish all but well directed kicks....answer Lambie.

2) Another big play wing to compliment Habana.....answer JP.

3) A class outside centre who can play against the likes of Conrad Smith.....no answer right now, possibly Jordaan after another S15.

4) A mature flyhalf who can vary the game and make his goal kicks.....answer Goosen, after one more S15 and only if his body holds up. Somebody on the Board said it, to survive he needs a bit more muscle.

5) A hooker who can back up the loosies....answer Bismarck.

6) An enforcer lock....the biggest, strongest guy on the park. ....answer nright now  Bakkies, next year or possibly the year after that Etzebeth.

7) A fetcher who can double as a close in tackler....no answer, Louw misses too many tackles, Brussouw has asked too much of his body.

8) A number eight who is physical and can provide wide cover, something totally missing yesterday...answer not clear, but Kankowski showed signs of becoming that player in the S15.

So we have some answers to our issues. I personally don't think those answers include Taute, Jantjies, Coetzee, Steph du Toit, Coenie or any other of the young players....except for Goosen and Etzebeth. But they both need time.

 I would say what we are missing are 22 rugby players and four coaches..

Zane,Taute, De Villiers, Jannie, Beast, Morne, Potgieter, Chilliboy, Bekker, Cilliers,Jantjies, Spies, Liebenberg, Mvovo( I think I spelt it correct) are obviously not the type of players we require.

They are either pass their best or outclassed in test rugby.

Pity about just handing out Springbok colours to any Tom, Dick or Harry.......

I would rather see/support young class players who will lay it on the line for the coverted Springbok Cap/Blazer and country.

Shame, shame, shame on all concerned with this shambles.........................

One considers that with the return of Hulk Burger, Bismark and JP Pieterson along with Frans Steyn and maybe Ryan Kankowski that those dynamics will add the extra punch, experience and leadership that is so missing from thre Bok team at the moment.

Can anyone tell me is the likes of Bakkies Botha, Jacqes Fourie and Fourie De Prez coming back to Bok rugby? What about the Blue Bulls mifdfielder Wynard Olivier?

The only other guy apart from Taute who created three tries for the opposition, in recent memory, is Wynand Olivier. Fogettabout him. Jean is probably in his last season, Steyn was terrible at centre, Burger, JP and Bismarck will make a difference...as would Bakkies. Enforcers like Brad Thorne and Martin Johnson play way into their 30s ....so could Bakkies.

Mozart, Do you have something against Taute? He missed a tackle that resulted in a try.Him not kicking the ball out, is just that, he did not kick the ball out. the bad defencive lines was the cause of that try.

Habana going for the intercept instead of the ball and all tackle also resulted in  a try.

Adriaan Strauss slowing down thinking that Johan Goosen was going to stop whitelock resulted in a try.

Mozart

The above is very explicit and answer many questions I raised elsewhere - thank you for that.

Lambie - I fully agree with you in his case

Center - I like Jordaan as an attacking player - but I think there is some work to be done on him as far as defence is concerned.   I still think he is our best option as a future center.   However, I think the answer will only be provided after next years Super 15.   In any event Jordaan is very young and has his own injury problems to boot.   Are  we plating youngsters at Super level and higher too early?

Flyhalf - Agree with you on Goosen and the same question I ask about Jordaan applies to Goosen as well.   Incidentally Goosen is 7 cm taller than Dan Carter - but weighs six kilos less than him.   Some serious gym work and appropriate diet would help.   That probably helped Habana as well - he showed amazing improvement over the past year - probably as a result of gym work.   Saw him during a gym session - he now has serious muscles on display - something not really noticeable previously.   If Goosen could up his muscle weight by 7 kilos ar least and up to 10 kilos - he would be a real handful.

Don't agree with you about Bakkies Botha - he definitely is too old and has only played at French club level the past year.   Is he still up to it?  I think that things will improve with Etzebeth - another Super series will really help.

Where I do agree with you about players is Jantjies - who has no real potential - and to a slightly lesser degree on Taute, Coetzee and Oosthuizen.   The latter has potential for improvement.  They are very young still and in the case of Oosthuizen was off for months and obviously not matchfit on Saturday.   In any event he was playing in a position he never specialized in before.   Taute  has to my mind also some potential - but is likely not to be able to be a future star player.   Steph Du Tout also have potential - but is at least two yeats away from serious consideration.    

Jordaan is very good, I have to agree with you CleverMike. He is small, but by no means weak. We will have to see what he does when he gets run at by bigger centres,I was dissapointed in the way Jean Devilliers brushed him aside in one of the superrugby games, but Jordaan is very strong and he will get better defenciveley. Taute is a very good defender, but also missed a tackle that he should have made.

Both these guys are young and will only get better. Not even Jaque Fourie was defencively sound at this age.

If they played turnstile ADI Jacobs at 13, then these two cant do worse. Adi was the worst defender in the 13 Jersey since Jorrie Mulder.

Rugby 107

Welcome to this forum.

I have been an admirer of Jordaan - more so after his performance against the Reds and in the Chiefs final.   He did in those games against bigger centers make his tackles and was a handful in attacking play.   Like any player he would miss an occassional tackle - but he is not a serial offender - so I still believe he is our best option as future center - either at 12 (the position he played in against the Chiefs opposite SBW) or 13.

I do believe Taute should really play at full back and not at center.   One of the best tries I have seen in Super 15 was scored by him when he for the ball in his own 22 and ran through the whole opposition team.   I do think he has potential - bur is probably better suited as a full back - not as a center.   

Thanks Clevermike. Jordaan was very good in the playoffs.He is also very tough to bring down. Taute runs very good angles from 15, something the boks have been lacking this year. He also knows how to create space for his wingers when he joins the line.

Jordaan can make something from nothing, with limited space, thats why I like him at 13.

Thanks Clevermike. Jordaan was very good in the playoffs.He is also very tough to bring down. Taute runs very good angles from 15, something the boks have been lacking this year. He also knows how to create space for his wingers when he joins the line.

Jordaan can make something from nothing, with limited space, thats why I like him at 13.

A creative fullback who can slice into the line or punish all but well directed kicks....answer Lambie.

lambie woul db ea better bet than kirchner. The basic reason is tha tlambie has the intelligence to play a smart game. However i hav emy doubyts about his phsicality. To me Taute is the be tbet at fullback.

2) Another big play wing to compliment Habana.....answer JP. AGREED - AN OBVIOUS YES

3) A class outside centre who can play against the likes of Conrad Smith.....no answer right now, possibly Jordaan after another S15. Here we have Jordaan and Du plessis.

4) A mature flyhalf who can vary the game and make his goal kicks.....answer Goosen, after one more S15 and only if his body holds up. Somebody on the Board said it, to survive he needs a bit more muscle.

Probably me I have said from the outset I was concerend as to how hard he was. He is still nly under 21 next year!!! No year end tour for him - its the gym and all round conditioning!

5) A hooker who can back up the loosies....answer Bismarck. AGREED

6) An enforcer lock....the biggest, strongest guy on the park. ....answer nright now  Bakkies, next year or possibly the year after that Etzebeth.

Our two best locks in my book are Flip and Etzebeth who will be even better next year. Bakkies is worth considering if he is fit and willing. Then its bakkies and Flip

7) A fetcher who can double as a close in tackler....no answer, Louw misses too many tackles, Brussouw has asked too much of his body. If you want a fetcher type loosie  Deon Fourie can d oa job for us.

8) A number eight who is physical and can provide wide cover, something totally missing  yesterday...answer not clear, but Kankowski showed signs of becoming that player in the S15.

Vermuelen has been satisfactory but not at his best. Given the long layoff and being thrust into test rugby so quickly one has to take this into account. C J Stander comes to mind for me. Also I wonder how Marcell would go there. Also one could consider a fit again Burger.  One really hopes Burger come sback fit and raring to go. Best loosie in SA in 2011