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FORUM / RUGBY /  Throw, timing or jumper

Throw, timing or jumper

Started by Mozart90 REPLIES1,414 VIEWS· 04 Nov 2018, 16:52
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Nov 2018, 16:52
#1
04 Nov 2018, 16:52#1
Our lineout has been money with Mostert at 5 calling the lineouts. Marx has also been solid with that combination. Yesterday we had Stephanie at 5....and things imploded but where does the fault lie. Look at the image in this clip and decide for yourself: https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/erasmus-bemoans-wasted-opportunities/
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
04 Nov 2018, 17:06
#2
04 Nov 2018, 17:06#2
Interesting, slight interference to put the catcher off. Ultimately I blame Kwotalisi, he is the captain and makes the calls. Don't forget the overthrow against Australia where Bongi completely missed and Foley scores. Looks like Kwotalisi have not learned from his past mistakes. Besides, dropping a ball in one off those mauls and practically invisible. But Rassie has picked a rod for his own back. As he can't drop him and face the rouf of the ANC politicians. I think our best loose forward combo is 6 Louw, 7 PSTD, 8 Vermeulen. Our back up loosies could be having 6 Coetzee, 7 Jean Luke 8 Whiteley. Why bother with Kwotalisi and Nachos
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
04 Nov 2018, 17:10
#3
04 Nov 2018, 17:10#3
But I think our biggest problem is the boks new line out mentor. Schalc Brits, we all know what a dead eye thrower he was for the Stormers. So you have a line out mentor that couldn't even hit the side of the barn and was mainly Sean as a retreated flank.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Nov 2018, 17:15
#4
04 Nov 2018, 17:15#4

Mozart

I thought you would come up with the BS that nobody else blamed Du Toit for but you try to.  To be expected from you though.   There were no problem with the jumpers - whether it was Du Toit or Vermeulen.   

What is the difference - does either Du Toit or Marx not understand the language used?  There was in fact no solid formation involving Mostert.    If he was the jumper there would have been no possibility of a driving mauls - you saw what happened in Pretoria against the AB's.   Mostert on test elvel is not physical enough to organize and co-ordinate any driving mauls.

Now back to the problem - I do not know why - but Marx throw-ins are problematic.   If you look carefully at it - it is too high for any jumper and dropped down just about a meter behind the last man in the line-out.   It is nothing new though - Marx has had the problem for years.   Sometimes it is more prominent than other times.  It happened in the June tests as well - where Mbonambi was brought on when Marx could not find the jumpers - and the caller was Mostert.   

Sorry - but you are om another false Du Toit campaign.   

        

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Nov 2018, 17:19
#5
04 Nov 2018, 17:19#5
Look at the picture....Shield is 6 inches above Stephanie at the point the ball is caught. Why? Why does Mostert never, ever miss these Marx throws. These are legitimate questions,
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Nov 2018, 18:34
#6
04 Nov 2018, 18:34#6
I agree Corn if we can't connect at 5....why not throw to 3 where Etzebeth is always money. Or why not scrum if you have the option, when you're a man up.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Nov 2018, 19:11
#7
04 Nov 2018, 19:11#7

Mozart

You are totally talking crap.   If you want driving mauls you do not throw the ball to the front jumper since it is easily defended by pushing the maul over the sideline.

Then you come with the story that Marx throw-ins are accurate when  Mostert does the calling.   Why was there the same problem previously when Mostert was calling and Marx was replaced because of inaccurate throw-ins.   Marx's line -out throw-ins has been problematic - and there has been efforts to get him over the 

To the come and tell us that Shields outjumped Du Toit is total crap - did he take a line-out when the ball was thrown in by the Springboks?      Look why do you not start using your logic and stop the hate campaign against Du Toit - it just makes you look silly.  

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
04 Nov 2018, 19:23
#8
04 Nov 2018, 19:23#8

Agree.

Regardless of who was to blame for the first two, that third one at that time in the game should never have been called.

Poor leadership. 

Mostert was indeed missed yesterday.

So many don't rate him despite seeing what a chasm his absence creates.

Moz , both Marx and PSDT are good otherwise. Creates a bit of dilemma if Rassie doesn't wanna play Mostert.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Nov 2018, 19:38
#9
04 Nov 2018, 19:38#9

Plum - sorry I disagree

I do not think Mostert was missed.   The Springboks tried to use rolling mauls and a few was indeed successful.   When Mostert is at 5 they cannot do so - he is on test level not physically strong enough to form and co-ordinate mauls 

A typical example of the deficiency was clear in the Pretoria test where not a single penalty corner kick was used - since you need a co-ordinator and Mostert cannot fulfil that role.

Mozart is on his routine anti-Du Toit campaign - so he blames Du Toit for the mess Marx make in throwing in balls.   It is not the caller that matters - it is the accuracy of the throw-ins that count.   Nobody would call balls to be so high that  none of the jumpers can reach it.    

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Nov 2018, 20:01
#10
04 Nov 2018, 20:01#10
Plum the automatic assumption has been it's Marx's fault. That ball Shield steals is Stephanie's fault....he simply isn't high enough. Shields takes it off him and his arms aren't even fully reaching up. That means only one of two things....Stephanie has leapt high enough or his reactions are slow and he is still on the way up. Mostert takes that ball....no worries.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Nov 2018, 20:28
#11
04 Nov 2018, 20:28#11

So Keegan Daniels was used in the lineouts for the Sharks. Wonder how that happened (SARC).



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Nov 2018, 20:47
#12
04 Nov 2018, 20:47#12
Sarc response....Daniels was lifted, but it still depends on the timing of the jumper and how quickly and high he jumped. We never see Mostert 6 inches below a jumping loosie. Use your nut Hasbeen....I have only been able to get about 30 minutes of the game but already I'm seeing huge holes in the conventional take. For example.....the game was probably lost with Lomp's feeble strip, which gave the Poms 50 metres to defend. Had we held onto the ball in the 22 and kept on the pressure a kickable penalty or better was likely.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
04 Nov 2018, 20:51
#13
04 Nov 2018, 20:51#13
Moz, studies show reaction times of long necked athletes is slower than those with short stubby neck - according to some. However thick necked hookers with short arms are also less accurate with throw ins. I am sure those on this site with the necessary brain power can come to the correct conclusion based on these facts. Beeno need not comment, lol
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
04 Nov 2018, 20:54
#14
04 Nov 2018, 20:54#14
Mostert has a high work rate, and in someways plays more like a loose forward than a lock. He clears lots of rucks, and helps retain quick clean possesion.
The rolling maul has actually been good this year- it is was during the Coetzee era that the Rolling maul was not used.

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
04 Nov 2018, 21:32
#15
04 Nov 2018, 21:32#15
I agree, Mostert is hugely underrated player. I think having both him and PSTD allow the boks to play a wider game, not to mention whiteley. But we missed Mostert for sure. But the other problem we had is that even though Marx should have been subbed. We simply didn't have a quality hooker on the bench that can play more than 20 min. Bongi also missed the mark on several occasions the weekend before and were completely outplayed by akker van der Merwe. If we had him on the bench then at least the boks would somebody who can hit the mark but also bring something to general play and a ball carrier. The problem is that Marx is well known and will be targeted. As I said. Kwotalisi is the captain who makes the calls. Bongi is not up to standard and we have nobody to fall back onto or to put pressure on either players. Their roles are guaranteed.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Nov 2018, 22:08
#16
04 Nov 2018, 22:08#16

Easy friends - the choice is between having a Tight 5 or  a Tight 4.   You can have Mostert at lock and whether you like it or not you have a Tight 4 incapable of really getting the upper hand up front.         

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Nov 2018, 22:08
#17
04 Nov 2018, 22:08#17

Easy friends - the choice is between having a Tight 5 or  a Tight 4.   You can have Mostert at lock and whether you like it or not you have a Tight 4 incapable of really getting the upper hand up front.         

BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
05 Nov 2018, 00:09
#18
05 Nov 2018, 00:09#18

Hard to tell. If that picture is the only evidence, then it must be a penalty to the Boks. Bok player's fingers are higher and in contact with the ball. Shield is coming from the side and attack PSdT's hand ... thus interfering.

Would like to see at what time in the match this occurred .



BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
05 Nov 2018, 07:00
#19
05 Nov 2018, 07:00#19

I think the picture clearly shows that although duToit has a long neck, he has relatively short arms .

Good point Blikkies.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Nov 2018, 07:07
#20
05 Nov 2018, 07:07#20
Minute 54.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
05 Nov 2018, 08:06
#21
05 Nov 2018, 08:06#21
Yup, definitely the long neck short arm syndrome at play here. What one must not forget is the sloped shoulders. It is that trio of biological factors that most influenced the missed catch. 
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
05 Nov 2018, 08:21
#22
05 Nov 2018, 08:21#22

Plus depression is known to shorten the forehead, for sure to be sure .

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
05 Nov 2018, 08:28
#23
05 Nov 2018, 08:28#23


BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
05 Nov 2018, 08:29
#24
05 Nov 2018, 08:29#24



BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
05 Nov 2018, 08:32
#25
05 Nov 2018, 08:32#25
Thought I'd quickly put to bed the long neck sloped shoulders myth so that we can focus on the actual facts. If anything, Etzebeth has the longer neck. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Nov 2018, 08:54
#26
05 Nov 2018, 08:54#26

Mozart got what he deserved - funny how his BS tends to land him in the shit bucket.  

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
05 Nov 2018, 14:56
#27
05 Nov 2018, 14:56#27

Bump

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Nov 2018, 15:30
#28
05 Nov 2018, 15:30#28
Nice try Bloo, but your participants aren't properly lined up. Post a proper team shot....in the latest ones I've seen Kolisi is taller than Stephanie both seated. But it is good to see Bakkies has the proper shoulder set, nice and square, not one of these swan- necked jobs with the rotator cuff six inches below the larynx.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Nov 2018, 15:36
#29
05 Nov 2018, 15:36#29

his is BS started by Mozart and he finally got it in the "neck".

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Nov 2018, 15:49
#30
05 Nov 2018, 15:49#30
Vermeulen at the shoulder/Bakkies at the top of the head.....is it a lock or is it a flank....even the coaches are confused. Hahahaha! What's very clear is Mostert is a way better jumper and much shrewder in calling the lineouts. After Saturday one has to conclude everything Stephanie did well, he could do better at flank.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Nov 2018, 19:57
#31
05 Nov 2018, 19:57#31

Mozart

Mostert is the better jumper?   He cannot set up mauls and co-ordinate same.  So the choice is Mostert and NO driving mauls or a stronger player who can set up and co-ordinate driving mauls.   Most experts will consider the second option.

How many times has Mostert taken opposition balls in line-outs if he indeed is the better jumper?  

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
05 Nov 2018, 20:24
#32
05 Nov 2018, 20:24#32

Marx fcked up the throws...stupid to persist on calling there, but he still botched it.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
05 Nov 2018, 22:44
#33
05 Nov 2018, 22:44#33

Eben has a thinner neck. In the last shot, Eben is raising his head up, Steph isn't. The comparisons aren't accurately adjudged. Not that I particularly care for the issue. 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
06 Nov 2018, 00:19
#34
06 Nov 2018, 00:19#34
Matfield was often used by the Boks to setup lineout mauls, and he is lighter than Mostert. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2018, 00:28
#35
06 Nov 2018, 00:28#35
Precisely....nothing to do with weight as I explained to Tokkie. The receiver is in directing, not pushing position.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2018, 00:32
#36
06 Nov 2018, 00:32#36

Never since 2014 - Matfield was good in line-out play before his retirement and poor afterwards,   Please note I referred to the Springbok decline in rolling mauls starting in 2014 with Matfield being the problem and continued to this day - other than a few occasions Du Toit played at 5 - when he engineered rolling mauls.

In the tests played by Mostert this year  he did not engineer a single roving maul,   

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2018, 00:34
#37
06 Nov 2018, 00:34#37

Mozart - you are indeed talking tripe,   First thing the jumper must be physically strong enough to form and co-ordinate the maul,   That requires more than Mostert is able to provide,

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2018, 01:55
#38
06 Nov 2018, 01:55#38
I agree, like Victor Matfield.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2018, 07:32
#39
06 Nov 2018, 07:32#39

When did it happen that mauls were initiated by Matfield in 2014 and 2015?  Never.   In the Wellington test he fumbled a ball thrown at him which made a driving maul impossible.   

In the WC test against Japan - not a single maul followed line-outs when balls ere thrown at Matfield.   That was the reason why he was slated after the test for not following orders.

Whenever Matfield tried to form a maul in tests in 2014 and 2015 - he was pushed out of the mauls and ended up on his arse next to the unsuccessful mauls efforts.  That is why he ended up not getting involve in maul situations at all.           

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
06 Nov 2018, 08:11
#40
06 Nov 2018, 08:11#40
Bwahahahahahaha! Now the photos are lying!!! What was your rebuttal when Mike tried that argument??? Double standards much!!! You too Aug! Seriously guys, just admit you got it wrong! Also, stop trying, as you always accuse Mike of doing, to muddy the waters by changing the subject to Bakkies. He has nothing to do with the conversation. Unless you are trying to point out that both PSDT and Etzebeth have an inferior build to him? Seriously laughable! 




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