Time to end Super Rugby, SA need European Cup

 S hrkbok
If thr ws any logic in that proposal it would have been implemented years ago.   For one thing people must remember is that Rugby is a winter sport -  so the SA teams must compete against the NH teams in what is our summer and play rugby in winter locally in SA.   It is basically impractical.
OK the currency situation is a problem - but that will not be solved by joining the European Cup competition.   Will we get more than we got out of Super Rugby - I doubt it very much.   Isnsofar as S uper Rugby is concerned - the rights are paid for in dollars - not Rand.   
  
   

well then Super Rugby is going to be embarrassing. With many of our top players not available, all our teams will turn into the Golden Lions.

Given how stupid the proposal for the super rugby looks for 2016 I'd be happy to see us play NH sides but my guess is that with it our standard might drop as conditions dictate less attractive style of player. 
But maybe by then all fields will be artificial up here as Sarries pitch is. 

 Stupid idea and I am totally against it as I always have been. 
Time zone issues are ridiculous and, to be truthful, the European Comp is in danger of wrecking English Rugby anyway. So the sooner we forget that nonsense and just concentrate on our own game, the better. 
You should concentrate on yours too. And leave us out of it. 

Becs I am not concerned if your players or the rest of Europe do not like the extra travel time, or playing in different temperature, heat, or anything else. As to whether this wrecks English Rugby more, all to the betterment of the Boks!
It is in the same time zone after all, so you do not have to lose any sleep . It is only the players that have to do the travelling during matches.

 Well you should care, because, the time zone issue re travelling has been a main factor in the failure of this idea getting off the ground. So it's somewhat important.
As I said, you sort your own game out and leave us out of it. Your problems are not our concern ! Your players coming here are already destabilising our game, we don't need any further problems caused by you, thanks !! 

 The IRB don't exist anymore, Blikkies.....they are called World Rugby now  

 May just be an excuse for poor performance though. As while SA are loosing good players to Europe. So are NZ and so are Oz. You still have some very good players to work on. SA need to change their rule on picking players over seas. Its like a cancer. Maybe if they stop that, Meyer would be forced to pick home grown talent. 

 Maybe if you could produce some quality players of your own then you wouldn't need to steal our players.

Even a proper strength vs strength local competition will be better than the Super Farceteen. We'll play less rugby and players will be fresher come test time. Doesn't really solve the exodus problem but we might as well accept that times have changed and money beats the drum now, so things will go progressively more to sh!t.

 Come now BB that is no option at all I am sure that was tongue in cheek!Playing in the NH would solve the exodus problem but the seasons problem looks to be insurmountable.It would appear we are saddled with being linked to the down under yobbos! What have we done to deserve such a fate! 
The problems facing our rugby are huge. Quotas, player exodus, too many provinces, no central contracting etc etc. Our top young players are leaving and there will be more after the RWC. 
Unless some action is taken by these NH parasites one cant see a solution. A poor RWC showing by the NH sides is what is need. It may just make them think again about their own talent or rather the lack of it! 

 

I am actually very serious about it  

 BB international competiton is very benefical we cant go back t o the larger boet!

I'm with Biltongbek 100%. The last time that Super Rugby was actually "super" was back when it was a Super 12. The Aussies, Kiwis, Argies, Japs, Pacific Islanders and whoever else wants a slice of the Super Rugby pie can have it. The Currie Cup is the world's oldest and most prestigious domestic rugby competition and we should pay it the necessary respect by prioritizing it above this Super Rugby circus and also ensuring that only players who played in the most recent Currie Cup tournament are eligible for Springbok selection.

While we're at it we should also only schedule the Rugby Championship for every alternate year. The remaining two years should be reserved for the RWC and then in the remaining year we should have a good old fashioned tour. Once every 4 years, the two SH powers that are not hosting the British Lions should tour one another on an alternating home and away basis. This would mean that every 4 years we have a tour involving either the British Lions or else the All Blacks or the Wallabies.

My 2 pennies, having read most of the above posts.

Firstly the "time zone" issue.
The IRB/World Rugby has been talking about a "universal season" for ages and they have been talking about it for ages. I have been asking for ages whether rugby is still a "winter sport". The early preparations for the new season starts in Nov/Dec and then it gains momentum in Jan. The games start in Feb. That is winter time because.......? The Super Whatever final is at the end of May, which is hardly slap bang at the coldest time of the year..... right? I don't think so.

Becs, I seem to recall that you have said that you have never been to South Africa. I have travelled between South Africa and the UK a few times. It is nothing. In fact, it is only the UK and Ireland teams that face a two hour or one hour - during daylight saving times - time difference. The French and Italian teams are on the same time line as SA. What is more, it is an overnight flight from between Europe and SA. There is no way that travel could be an excuse. It is only the travel cost that could be an issue and I do not see how that can be a real issue because there would be more incoke from ore media companies due to more exposure and more games being aired. We know that the media companies are the main source of income in rugby. The normal ticket holder hasn't been holding the financial key in ages. It is the TV viewer. It is TV income that is putting the French sides in a position to lure away SH players and the same is happening in the UK with BT coming to the party. I have changed my opinion about BT Sport's involvement drastically. I guess you would recall our discussions some time ago about their involvement and how I was against them. They have surprised me, to tell the truth and the result is that a lot of money has started flowing into UK and Irish rugby. It is media money that is paying for the increase in salary caps in English rugby.

BB could well be correct that Supersport is paying per CC game than what they pay per S15 game but I doubt it. If I am not mistaken, Supersport is not paying the franchises anything to broadcast the S15 games. Murdoch and his cronies are paying SANZAR for it and Supersport are paying the Murdochs for the broadcasting rights. SANZAR then distributes the income form Murdoch between themselves.

Secondly the inclusion or exclusion of foreign players issue.
Rugby has become a global sport, just like any sport and any job, or that matter. To say that the foreign players have weakened English/French rugby is a myth. England are on track to becoming a real contender for the 2015 RWC. They have won it in 2003, they were in the final in 2007. They had a balls-up in 2011 and that was because of a stupid mistake of thinking that a good RWC title holding captain could automatically become a RWC holding coach. France has always been in the mix and we all know how close they came to winning the RWC the last item around. My opinion is that, if anything, the involvement of the foreign (SH) players in the European competitions, have strengthened the rugby in the NH. I have predicted long ago that the NH rugby is slowly catching up. My posts are still on record.

I disagree that the foreign players are not helping French rugby. I have posted an article where the numbers were ana.lised about the influence and involvement of foreign players in French rugby some time ago. I am not going to repeat the entire story. This is a link to the article, an interesting read - http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/france-countries/top-14-blueprint-success/#LJDWSa2e0ERbobqB.99

The relevance of Super Rugby?
I think that we are all in agreement on this one. It has become a load of BS and interest is taking a nose dive. The opposite is happening with the European competition. The have revamped it and there is a great interest in it as well as in the "normal" European domestic competitions. They games are drawing more crowds than Super Rugby and the media houses (and rugby, for that matter) are making money and the money is going back into the sport. Frankly, I don't think that I would really be interested in watching the Super Whatever from 2016 onwards.

The CC competition.
I agree with BB about the CC in some way but I do not think that we only need to invest in the CC. We do not have the resources (yet?) to carry fourteen CC sides in a meaningful competition Maybe we should go back to the drawing board in a way and create more competition on a strength v strength basis with a number of different tiers. Think about the old CC structures.... Someone remember how we had "A" and "B" teams in the same competition? In those days there was a separate competition for the Provincial "B" sides. N Tvl Freestate and WP had "B" sides The Tvl "B" side was called the "Rooibokke" and the Natal "B" side was called the Natal Wildebeests. The progression was normally U/19, U/21, B-team, A-team. In addition to the CC we had the Sport Pienaar competition, in two divisions, as well.

There were ample competitions in different tiers and it worked. There were lots of rugby clubs and the normal club player had the chance of making it into the provincial structures and the national sides. Nowadays, it is Craven Week and then SA Schools and then Vodacom Cup and CC and then Super Rugby Some even skip the Vodacom Cup and the CC. There is no chance for "late bloomers" like the Andre Venters of the world to make it into the Bok side anymore. We are forgetting about grass roots rugby.

I was involved with club rugby in SA and I saw it going down the tubes in a matter of a few years. When I arrived in the UK my son was playing for a club side and I had a look at the "amateur" structures and competitions and I can tell you that amateur club rugby is on a totally different level because of the different competitions of the RFU.

In conclusion.
We are slipping up by staying involved with this SANZAR monster that was created. I do not think that it wwould be too difficult to get involved in the European competitions. They just need to play the SA legs of the competition at around Feb instead of over Nov/Dec.

If we can manage to get that sorted out, it would also mean that we would follow the European model where the same sides, that are competing in the Rugby Champions Cup, are also competing in the domestic competition. That would mean that the CC sides would be of the same quality/strength as the Franchises. We would no longer have a watered down domestic competition. It is very important to remember that, if we get in involved in the NH, we would also have access to a second tier competition - the Rugby Challenge Cup, which would also give sides like the Pumas, Griquas, etc to play on that level and get an income and exposure to international rugby as well.

Super Rugby/SANZAR has missed the boat ages ago when they did not introduce a second tier competition like the NH did.

Blah blah blah . . . Ceradunce, weren't you told in no uncertain terms to shove off back to Kamp SS? Yes? Well then what are you doing hanging around here and boring everyone to tears with your long and monotonous posts where you basically regurgitate other people's opinions and pass them off as your own?

Just shove off. You're neither wanted or liked and no-one gives a flying toss about your whiny opinions on anything. Close the door on your way out.

Who pulled your chain oh mighty turd? If you were of any importance, I would have provided you with links were I have argued along the same lines before.

 BB, we are basically on the same page. I am only saying that it is not the CC per that needs to be looked at. It is the entire SA domestic rugby set-up. 
As far as the money from Supersport is concerned, we have to bear in mind where the monies are coming from. The "CC money" is generated domestically and payed for by Supersport, with no third party involvement. Remember that they, Supersport, also get income from selling those broadcasting rights of to international companies like Sky, Fox, etc. In the case of the SANZAR competitions, they have to buy the broadcasting rights from Newscorp, who owns it. As I said, Supersport do not pay the franchises to broadcast those games. They page Newscorp, or whatever Rupert Murdoch's setup is called. 

"Who pulled your chain oh mighty turd?"

You did because I find your presence here to be offensive.

Your attempts to draw attention to Beeno's real name being plastered all over the board are nothing short of disgraceful and  it also reminds me how much pleasure you took from my name being splashed all over Kamp SS and how you defended the Kamp SS fuhrer's despicable behaviour.

Ceradunce, I may not speak for everyone but as far as I'm concerned you're not the calibre of poster we want here on Ruckers Forum. Surprise me and apologize to Beeno otherwise seriously, just slink away and go stink up some other forum.

PS Oh and please spare me any of your self-righteous foot-stamping and your childish little demands to quote or put up proof. We both know what your intentions were when you jumped all over that Sonny Bill mole's posts. In other words, don't make an even bigger dick of yourself than you already have.

 I have nothing to apologise about. I have not plastered Beeno's real name anywhere. He, himself is to blame. Had he not jumped in and start an entire thread nobody would have been any wiser. I cannot be blamed for his stupidity. 

Typical answer. I might have known you wouldn't be a man about this, Ceradunce. You must think we're all very stupid to believe you didn't have an agenda when you made a big deal about who BN was with all your infantile little smiley faces and your feigned ignorance of who he was. Oh well, that confirms what kind of spiteful, childish and vindictive loser you really are.

If you must hang around here yapping away like a little bitch for attention then do me a favour and leave me out of it because I have nothing to say to you other than to tell you to get lost. Now get lost.

You are no different from Beeno. I did not invite him to open a new thread to highlight his balls-up. He did it all by himself.


I also did not invite you to comment on my post. You did it out of your own free will and now you are asking me to keep you "out of it". How can you expect me to do that when you keep waving your fat little snotty finger under my nose when I am tying to ignore you? I wasn't even commenting on your post. Most of it was my general view in respect of the subject and the only two people that I addressed directly was BB and becs.