Tokkie eat Frans crow7

Old Tokkie asks why Frans should be a priority at centre when he has only played 20 per cent of his tests at centre.
 "  The question is what makes him an absolute necessity at 12 if he had comparatively little playing time at test level as a center if nearly 80% of his tests was not played in that position? "



Asks Tokkie....Good logic bad facts.
Frans has started in 36 tests...the rest as a sub. In those 36 tests, one was at flyhalf, one was on the wing, 14 were at fullback and 20 were  at centre.

Just another in the long string of Tokkie lies.

 Time for his Liagra medication.

Maybe he needs to up the Liagra dosage. . 

 Seuntjies 
He started in 19 tests - only 2 against Australia and New Zealand.   I asked the question of you and Disaster - I did not check all the tests he played in.  I checked the tests he played in afainst Australia and none of those bar 2012 he played against New Zealand.
So what did we have here - he played at center in the following tests:
RWC 2007 -  6 tests2012 tests  - 5 tests
I only counted the tests he started in - so against which countries were the other 8 tests he started in as center and when were they played?
I should have known better to ask you and Disaster for the info - because Seuntjies would misconstrue the question.   The "seuntjies" 9 year old rugby brain kicked in.
So you said he started at center in 19 tests and I better found that one out myself and check all the tests played as part of the WC 2007 till the RC in 2012:
Tests started at center WC 2007 - 6 played
Played against England, Tonga, USA, Fiji, Argentina and England
Tests started at Center 2008  No tests started at center
Tests started at Center 2009
No tests started at center
Tests started at Center 2010
13 November 2010  against Wales -  played at 1320 November 2010 against Scotland - played at 1327 November 2010 against England - played at 13 
3 tests played at 13
Tests started at Center 2011
17 September 2010  against Fiji22 September 2011 against Namibia30 September 2012 against Samoa
So in his whole career Frans played at -
*   Inside center (12) 14 times*   Outside center (13)  3 times
I could not find any other tests where Steyn started at center - so Seuntjies may have plugged the 19 tests out of the air.
So dear Fransie played 14 tests in his career at 12 over a period of 6 years - 6 of those in the 2007 WC and 5 in 2012.   The only other times he played at 12 was in the 2011 WC (3 tests)
So lets look at his performances in those 14 tests:-
*   Good in 2007 WC*   Good in the test in 2011 against Namibia - mediocre in the other two*   Barely average in the 2012 tests
He was also barely average at 13 in the three games he played in that position.     
Seuntjies - he never really was a house on fire when playing at 12 after the WC in 2007.  The rest of his center performances cannot really be regarded as a success story - bar against Namibia.  Is that the only country he can manage to shine against at 12 in tests?
   

 Seuntjies
By the way - next time you write a quote from what I wrote please quote the whole paragraph - not a sentence that you belief is applicable to make your lies acceptable. .  

Tokkie-lossie ended up with egg in similar circumstances regarding Month, claiming he never saw him at 13, and that he never played 10 under Viljoen.
Liagra laced with opium a good mix not make

 Also Tokkie, you missed a spot. Frans played 13 in 2008 against Australia. Can you find the date? LMAO!!

 Give the crazy old coot a break, he's still trying to figure out where he went wrong.
 

 
 

That will confuse the poor old coot.  

Seuntjies 
So I was right about the number of times he started at 12 - 14 times and that is not in dispute.   But the dunces still says he is the answer at 12.   All 14 times were spread over the years from 2007 to 2012.
It was not only the number of times he played - but which countries he played against and the quality of performances that is to be borne in mind.  Against the top competition his ratings are as follows:-
*   AB's and Australians          = 2 played - 2 sub-par*   Other rated teams in top 8 = 6 played - 2 good, 2 average, 2 sub-par*   Minnows                         = 6 played - 6 good
So his performances against the minnows and two games against England was good, 2 games against rated countries was average and 4 games sub-par. There is no indication that he produces anything against top countries - bar against England in the 2007 WC.
His sub-par games were all in 2012 - 1 against the AB's and 1 against the Aussies and 2 against the Argentinians,   ll his games at 13 was barely average.   Since then - other than kicking at goal - he was BS on Super 15 level - outplayed by all the other Super 15 franchise inside centers,
So what makes him a good inside center to be in the WC squad?  That question has not been answered by you and your co-idiots.   
However, what happened to the original thread where Disaster and you made the biggest BS arguments about his inclusion in the WC squad such a joke.  You both ran away from it like the cowards and idiots you both are.  And obviously you continue to talk KAK even at this stage.
So what is new anyway - Performance is nothing - reputation built up against mostly minnows everything - what a farce.  Plumtree was right - Steyn is NO CENTER.      
  
    

 It doesn't matter what you say Tokkie-lossie, Frans has played the vast majority of his senior rugby at 12, the next best being 10, but a very distant 10. And those were mainly due to injury to Ruan in 2009 and Lambie in 2014. It is a vastly overwhelming fact. And yes he is the answer. Defensively. noone else comes close, especially not the worst defensive centre in SH rugby! On attack? He straightens the attack and does everything you could ask of him. Damian and, to a slightly lesser extent, Serf struggle with this. There is no position you can take to argue otherwise Michael. It's Jean or Frans; Or Pollard with Morne at 10 as an educated mans gamble.

Disaster 
He straightens the attack by carrying balls 29 times and making one line break and beat 7 defenders in four test matches.   Are you daft to make that statement?   
De Allende did more in one test than Steyn did in four - but you kept on being devious.   There is no problem with De Allende straightening the attack - the whole problem is that you have to try and fault De Allende, so that is one of your topics you invented.
"There is no position you can take to argue otherwise Michael. It's Jean or Frans; Or Pollard with Morne at 10 as an educated mans gamble."    
An educated person's gamble.  I must take your tip and put some money on the  rated opposing teams beating us in the World Cup in the quarterfinal if Meyer is stupid enough to select that concoction in the backline.   We may get through the round robin stage with wins - note I say may - but thereafter they can book their flight back after the quarterfinal.   Morne need not worry about a flight, he can take the tunnel train to warm the bench at Stade Francais and Steyn can fly out to Japan directly.
The only chance we have of getting to the semi-final against New Zealand will be with Pollard at 10 - De Allende at 12 and if he can play and make the grade De Villiers at 13 - but preferably Kriel in the latter position.  Morne and Frans will be the poison that kills our chances comprehensively.             

Perv if you were right about Frans  starting 14 times at 12.... And you were right about him playing less than 20 per cent of his time at centre which would included  4 times at outside centre............he would have started in at least 90 tests.
And we all know he only started in 36 tests

It's pretty obvious you were just lying again and by the way, he started in 16 tests at 12...you got nothing right, not one thing.

 Seuntjies 
The more crap you write - the more lies you invent - the happier you are.
In any event - it is a perversion of the truth about performance that counts - not the number of tests played that is important.   His performance against minnows was good - against all others with rare exception crap.
But then on the thread on the issue dealing with the reasons you support Steyn - you made such  fool of yourself inasmuch as you declared that performance means nothing and that the only reason for Steyn to be selected is that he somehow paralyzes his opponents with fear so he needs not perform at all.  So diverting attention away from that thread is for you of the utmost importance.  
So happy Idiots Day to you Seuntjies.     

 Michael, I can barely constrain the tears such is the laughter... if Frans is no centre, why are you backing the worst defensive centre in Southern Hemisphere rugby? One which at no stage in his career has been able to straighten up any attack. You are contradicting your own logic by berating a player who is proven in two World Cups, one as Champion in which he sparked our entire campaign. The other which he sparked and our hopes went with his injury. The thoughtless mess you mash out on your keyboard is the literary equivalent of a homicide scene. Give up, for your own sake, I implore you.

 BS 

BS = B!tch Slapped 
 
 Damn right playa! 

 

 Things might be getting a little out of hand lads. The personal vindictiveness is reaching new lows.

 JW
It all started because I ask for reasons why Mozart and Disaster support Frans Steyn as the ideal test center.  What resulted was an unbelievable lot of drivel and Mozart calling younger players "Seuntjies" - that being little boys in Afrikaans.  Those little boys include players like De Allende, etc.
It the got out of hand completely because  - based on his own comments -  I could not  resist calling Mozart "Seuntjies". 
It really is a joke - the two became abusive afterwards since they got cornered about their support of Steyn - so now we have this mini-wart going on.   It will blow over - even though I think the Seuntjies nickname will stick around for a while longer.         

 Really? How about your after birth comments regarding de Jongh? Or the euthanasia comment regarding me? There's been many a dark and sinister attack from Michael. Consider yourself fortunate I can laugh at these things or your glass jaw would be in trouble, seuntjie! LMAO!

 What is that about euthanasia?  I never wrote anything even remotely like that.   I made a joke - that was repeatedly thousands of times by American comedians and used it iro De Jongh and it was taken as something sinister,   What a weird bunch you and your fellow Village Idiots are.
 

 Card how about your attacks on Michael. A little attack pack is building up here which reminds me of the dark days on kamp ss. It appears Mike may have been quoted out of context?In terms of the real question Frans has done zip for years no matter which position he has played in. mike is absolutely correct to saying on present form Frans does nt deserve to be included. Perosnally I think F rans is carrying a chronic injury.

 Issit Loopy De Jager ?

 Beeno, Michael singles out posters with personal attacks. And has many a time called on the moderator to remove members, whilst simultaneously expressing his deepest concerns for others who haven't been present. He has in the past seized opportunities to get a mob going. Pity not the forked tongued one. As I said, he has ended up in this situation by calling out Moz, Ceradyne and myself repeatedly with quite distasteful personal attacks. Too bad he never gets his facts straight. But what he gets in return is quite tame.

 Blobbok the same came to my mind as well! It is unfortunately a youtuber who looks quite different ordinarily.

 Cerudnce windpomp was after Mike from day one!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dr Moz likes to refight his board room battles it seems and you and Mike got off on the wrong foot. Mike is a decent guy as his plaudits for his life's work also show. 
JW has noted the state of affairs.  

 Michael wouldn't have problems if he weren't such a compulsive liar! If you lie so recklessly, and verbal bash another, do you not suppose you will draw some level of scrutiny upon yourself? But he makes it worse, digging himself to the centre of the earth! As this thread clearly demonstrates, he gets caught up in a hack job lie and goes on the attack when exposed. Just wait a couple more days for the usual "Raizons wai da doff doosing doos doffers arz stoopudz" thread. He just can't help himself. 

 Disaster
Go back and see where trouble normally started.  I did not start most squabbles on this site - but reacted to personal attacks when I differ from Seuntjies, Ceradunce and you - especially when you three are inventing rubbish to attack players on dubious grounds often based on lies - in which you three are experts.  
If you discuss players without misrepresentation and outfight lies you will find differences can be debated.  In the latest case as to Fat Fransie's suitability for selection - you got cornered and the personal attacks started.  Just go through that thread and you will find the real culprits.  
If happened time and time again when anybody differs from you three members.  The first things raised by you are constant misrepresentations (lies cloaked as opinions) - then follows the personal attacks. 
When somebody does not respond in kind you think you were vi ctorious - so a response in kind is necessary     

 OuMaaik, forget about your cyber battles..... there'll never be any resolution , instead tell us about life in Riversdale . Rural tranquility ? What night's the 'Grab a Granny' on at your local hotel ? The town got a rugby team ?  

 blobbok
There are a number of things that makes life difficult when you move house and those were here as well.   It took us a month to make the house livable and then we could start at the outside.  
The colour scheme on the outside was a mix of wrong colours and it was consequently necessary to do some minor building work - not fully completed yet - and obviously the painting work.,   The garden was an equal mess and that is now being dealt with.   That will take at least another month to get a planned garden going - I am still waiting fro some bulbs and plants I ordered.
The town is very peaceful and you see people strolling around and children playing.  Very few homes here have security fencing.   Prices of meat and vegetables are dirt-cheap compared to Ballito and the quality is very good.
Problem is that it was very cold at night, but it is now getting much more pleasant - especially during the day.
The town has a rugby team - but I have not gone to see a match thus far.  The Oakdale Agricultural High School is situated about 2 kms - it is at present 11th on the log of the High Schools comp in SA.
Anyway a nice place to find peace in retirement.   
  
      

 Beeno1
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 16349RE: Tokkie eat Frans crow7
August 03, 2015, 08:41:10

 Cerudnce windpomp was after Mike from day one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bulltwang. It started the first time when I caught ou Tokkie bullsh!tting and him getting hot under the collar. I cannot remember exactly what it was but in our first few encounters things were quite civil and discussions interesting until ou Tokkie posted something and I disagreed and subsequently posted the correct info. He exploded into a personal attack and called me an idiot. I laughed it off but he kept on repeating his bullsh!t "facts" in another thread. Standard Tokkie BS, you know.

 Oh I see the great innocence bursting out here on the part of Ceradyne.  I for at least two months tried to keep the peace on this site - with zero result.  Ceradyne followed me around like my Jack Russell - and in the process tried to attack whatever I wrote - but at the same time getting insulting on the site.  
Your remarks were toxic and that is a fact.  When I responded in kind you start with your BS.
Seuntjies was worse - he started the insults within weeks.  I pleaded with him to discontinue has atrocious attacks whenever anyone differs from  him.  
So the story is I will keep the pe ace - but not with your BS flowing all the time.    

 Foeitog. Die arme ou fossiel. He likes to dish it out but he goes crying when others do the same. F@kken pateet.

Ceradyne, that is exactly how it started with all of us. In my case, it was over Frans, Morne and Alberts in the first England test of 2012. He attempted to get an angry mob together back then and cal led for members and moderator to get rid of a few posters, myself included. Just look at how he talks to people straight off the bat: stupid doos, stupid cu*nt, a worthless poster who contributes nothing, oxygen thief, we should put you out of your misery (kill you)...the list goes on. Find one post of mine like that! But they act like he is a defenseless, sweet old man. Utterly ridiculous. Nope. Michael put a target on various posters and got outgunned. He can count himself quite fortunate he doesn't get the same in return.

 This is the biggest load of BS and selective quoting I have ever come across.   That useless attacks on me was started when I pointed out that the things some of you quoted are really not the case.  Then the personal attacks started.
What you lot contributes is exactly covered by what was in the thread on Frans Steyn is a typical example.  I asked a question why you support the selection of Steyn to the present squad and asked specifically about performance that shows the qualities you ascribe to Steyn.
What came back was anything but the examples what happened over the past 4 years with a huge amount of anything but hat was asked.  I was forced to sum up your contributions that you wrote as follows:-
"How silly of me - Steyn should be an automatic choice - he needs not do anything at present at all.   And then somebody wanted a list of players dropped in the WC 2007 squad - heavens knows who - but it was "common knowledge".
Then we cannot have a bunch of "seuntjies" in the team - so we must make sure that there is nobody under the age of 25 in the team - since they are "seuntjies".  Maybe some excuse could be found for Etzebeth - but the rest are all "seuntjies" who should not be anywhere near the team, irrespective of performance.  

Then the story about the playing style - we must never pass balls - unless Francois Steyn makes wide passes. So what must we do?   Since passing of the ball can lead to loss of possession and from what was said earlier in threads - the ball must not go past the flyhalf - it must be kicked away so Morne Steyn is the ideal flyhalf to do that.  If he is not there Fransie should be there to kick the ball away.     
In the case where you pass balls - use the Francois Steyn style and pass out wide and cut out overlaps (never mind potential intercepts) allowing defenders to drift out to defend in such cases.   In other cases passing the balls would lead to ball possession losses - so that is for the birds.
To achieve what the two geniuses want to achieve is that the backline is only there to defend - nothing else is necessary.   
Keep the ball amongst the forwards - but who should be the forwards to be selected?   Matfield is a must - we must have him in the Tight 5 - he is magnificent as a player at lock.  Alberts must be there - all else are "seuntjies".  They need to somehow do the job up front - their work rate is not important - there mere presence is.  They will scare the wits out of opponents.
WE GOT IT NOW - PICK THE 2007 WC PLAYERS - FORGET WHAT HAPPENED IN 2011.  PLAY "STAMPKAR" RUGBY AND EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE.   ABOVE ALL DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF COUNTING ON PRESENT PERFORMANCE - MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT REPUTATION IS THE ONLY NORM.   BEWARE OF THE "SEUNTJIES" - THEY ARE A RECIPE FOR DISASTER.
WHAT A LOAD OF ABSOLUTE BULLSH!T THESE TWO RUGBY GENIUSES SPOUT.  THEY WANT US TO BELIEVE THAT IS THE FORMULA FOR WINNING A WORLD CUP.  THIS IS REALLY UNBELIEVABLE."
That summary indicated exactly what Seuntjies and you came up with, despite all your fine words you spread all over the show.  I did not quote some of the funnies - like Steyn's presence wtll create such a fear factor amongst opponents that he does not need to do anything to be a factor. 
That was when Ceradunce tried to take up the cudgels on your behalf and the unpleasantness really started - I assume because I said that what you say was BS.  I could have said it was worse than that - because it was exactly that. 
Incidentally I do not get outgunned - I only produce a flood of misrepresentations and lies pouring out of you lot when you are cornered.  That makes it extra funny and if I do not respond in kind to your insults - you may think you have won the battle.   Seuntjies started this thread off  by quoting part of what I said - not the whole - and that in itself was a total misrepresentation and consequently a lie.   And that was followed by Ceradunce and yourself as well.    Normal practice I am afraid - if you cannot try diversion tactics - pile lie on lie to try and get out of the only pile of BS you have created for yourself.