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Toulon - Sharks Game - Teams

Started by clevermike23 REPLIES379 VIEWS· 04 Feb 2015, 19:05
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Feb 2015, 19:05
#1
04 Feb 2015, 19:05#1

Toulon: 15 Juan Martin Hernández, 14 Josua Tuisova, 13 Bryan Habana, 12 Jimmy Yobo, 11 David Smith, 10 Nicolás Sanchez, 9 Michael Claassens, 7 Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe, 8 Chris Masoe, 6 Gerhard Vosloo, 5 Jocelino Suta, 4 Ali Williams, 3 Carl Hayman, 2 Jean-Charles Orioli, 1 Xavier Chiocci.
Replacements - from: Matias Cortese, Florian Fresia, Corentin Braendlin, Steffon Armitage, Virgile Bruni, Ulupano Seuteni, Eric Escande, Karim Bougherara, Andy Cramond, Stéphane Munoz.


Sharks: 15 SP Marais, 14 Sibusiso Sithole, 13 Waylon Murray, 12 Heimar Williams, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Cobus Reinach, 8 Lubabalo Mtembu, 7 Renaldo Bothma, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 4 Mouritz Botha, 3 Matt Stevens, 2 Bismarck du Plessis (captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira.

Replacements - from: Kyle Cooper, Dale Chadwick, Lourens Adriaanse, Monde Hadebe, Marco Wentzel, Etienne Oosthuizen, Andre Esterhuizen, Paul Perez, Odwa Ndungane, Conrad Hoffmann, Fred Zeilinga.


This dos not look like a strong enough Sharks team.   There backline is crap - Williams was poor last yea and Waylon Murray is a bad joke,   Another negative is Stevens at 3 - a very poor player. On he other side - Renaldo Bothma is a huge improvement on what Alberts produces at 7. .    

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Feb 2015, 20:07
#2
04 Feb 2015, 20:07#2
 Crap Shark s side
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
04 Feb 2015, 20:42
#3
04 Feb 2015, 20:42#3
Am surprised Armitage is in the Squad  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Feb 2015, 20:46
#4
04 Feb 2015, 20:46#4
 Why surprised?
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
04 Feb 2015, 21:29
#5
04 Feb 2015, 21:29#5
He's on bail for a serious assault...or did you not know that ?  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Feb 2015, 22:40
#6
04 Feb 2015, 22:40#6
 No did not know that 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
04 Feb 2015, 22:52
#7
04 Feb 2015, 22:52#7
I have not seen anything from Hiemaar Williams to even suggest he is Curry Cup Level other than dummy running. Last year he was the dummy runner for most of the season. Never before has an inside centre been the recipient of so many skip passes. 
Hopefully Andre Esterhuizen gets a run, he did well last year against Sarceans

Fat Stevens got the nod I see.... He better up his game as he huffed and puffed his way from ruck to ruck last year. 
I am not sure about Waylon Murray. He seems like he is super injury prone. Just as he starts to regain some semblance of form he gets injured. Surely he must be seen as a backup player, a cheap bargain buy basement special. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Feb 2015, 23:03
#8
04 Feb 2015, 23:03#8
 Disagree Heimar Williams is a good centre. I have seen some good stuff from him. Far better option than has been Murray. Frans and Esterhuizen are ahead of Williams at 12 but he is good.
Why Tyler Fisher is not playing 13 is beyond me.
Stevens starting at 3 is an insult. He is sooo useless
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Feb 2015, 23:14
#9
04 Feb 2015, 23:14#9

Geez Dave Murray was one of your golden picks.....can we now assume this fantasy of your's is now dead?

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Feb 2015, 23:26
#10
04 Feb 2015, 23:26#10
Dead long ago. I am not sad enough like you lot with this notion of hanging onto washed up has beens.
Murray belongs with the likes of Matfield, Jean and co....on t he scrap heap
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
05 Feb 2015, 00:05
#11
05 Feb 2015, 00:05#11
 Well, Saffex, Armitage spent about 24hrs in a cell and had to pay a hefty sum to be released on bail. It was a very nasty assault which left a chap needing surgery on his injuries.It seems they have cause to think he was involved, although innocent until proven guilty etc.
That said, look how Danny Care was treated for driving over the limit....dropped from the England Squad for over a year, was it ? Had to attend community programmes fir the club etc ? 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
05 Feb 2015, 02:10
#12
05 Feb 2015, 02:10#12
 Hold your horses, becs . He, along with another player, was questioned by the police. He voluntarily went to the police to explain what had happened and he was not arrested or charged, so there was no way that he had to pay any bail to be released. They have, in fact, not even decided whether or not to charge him.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2930378/Steffon-Armitage-held-police-station-Toulon-flanker-questioned-alleged-assault.html

Armitage voluntarily attended the police station to explain what happened and he was being held in a cell, but he has not been arrested or charged. 

Toulon released a statement on Thursday confirming that Chiocci had been released from custody on Wednesday night without charge, but that Armitage continued to be held over-night for further questioning. The club are expecting to discover on Thursday whether he will be charged and if so, they will consider sanctions of their own.



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Feb 2015, 02:22
#13
05 Feb 2015, 02:22#13

Those pesky facts

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
05 Feb 2015, 02:23
#14
05 Feb 2015, 02:23#14
 Why did the French Press release the statement saying he had paid over three thousand pounds in bail ? And he was kept in until the following lunchtime whilst his teammate was released almost immediately ? He was also sanctioned by Toulon last weekend and not selected for the team...they released their own statement, but I suppose I am wrong about all this too even though someone in France told me about it all at the time and I didn't have to trawl the Daily Mail to read an article to check up on it !! 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Feb 2015, 06:37
#15
05 Feb 2015, 06:37#15
  Sharkbok
Any player playing outside of Francois Steyn has a serious handicap.   When not kicking possession away aimlessly the latter constantly makes skip passes - making sure potential overlaps are eliminated.   Players outside of him are doomed and their potential performances are detrimentally effected.
Williams may have more in him than shown last year - but we will have to see how he goes in future - without the Steyn handicap.       
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
05 Feb 2015, 10:33
#16
05 Feb 2015, 10:33#16
 becs

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1518 RE: Toulon - Sharks Game - Teams
February 05, 2015, 02:23:40  Why did the French Press release the statement saying he had paid over three thousand pounds in bail ? And he was kept in until the following lunchtime whilst his teammate was released almost immediately ? He was also sanctioned by Toulon last weekend and not selected for the team...they released their own statement, but I suppose I am wrong about all this too even though someone in France told me about it all at the time and I didn't have to trawl the Daily Mail to read an article to check up on it !! 


  • 0 Likes

Ah dear becs who always accuses me of never giving up on my stance........


Why did the French Press release the statement saying he had paid over three thousand pounds in bail ?
Why can't I find any such releases in the French press? The only ones that I could find agreed with the article that I quoted.

And he was kept in until the following lunchtime whilst his teammate was released almost immediately ?
I don't know. They did not say but he was not arrested or anything. He went to the police voluntarily and spoke to them.

He was also sanctioned by Toulon last weekend and not selected for the team...they released their own statement, but I suppose I am wrong about all this too even though someone in France told me about it all at the time and I didn't have to trawl the Daily Mail to read an article to check up on it !!

Sounds like hearsay to me. Fact is that many of their top payers did not play in that game. Ali Williams, amongst others was not in the team and some of their first team players, including their captain Carl Hayman were on the bench. As was their current regular starting scrum half, Michael Claassens and Chris Masoe. I could ot find any release saying that Armitage has been sanctioned. I could only find statements saying that he will be sanctioned of charged/found guilty.

I quite prepared to accept your account of what happened but I cannot find anything that supports it. If he is guilty then it would be a pity because he has been in great form for some time now. It was amazing to see him steal balls in rucks against LLanelli, almost at will. At some stage he had already won his side 5 penalties from th Scarlets hanging on to the ball. That was apart from the balls that he actually managed to steal.

Had he been playing in England, he would probably have been the first name on the team sheet 9 times out of ten. No wonder that Stuart Lancaster is/was prepared to bend over from his policy to include him in the England squad. There is apparently a clause in their "locals only" policy, allowing him to select foreign based players in exceptional circumstances.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
05 Feb 2015, 11:40
#17
05 Feb 2015, 11:40#17

How's that line go again.....Never let the facts get in the way of a good story...that's it!


Gosh Dave, never thought I'd see the day you'd walk away from the super useless Wayward Murray.


Told ya he was never ever good.....can't believe he's still playing.



 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Feb 2015, 13:41
#18
05 Feb 2015, 13:41#18
Nope he was good, he is just past it now....time to move on......same can be said of many players still featuring who should not be......in particular at Bok level.  
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
05 Feb 2015, 14:07
#19
05 Feb 2015, 14:07#19
Ceradyne...He will appear in Court on the 10th where he is expected to be charged with Aggravated Violence. The French Legal system is slower than ours here, it seems. I'm sure he would have already been charged by now but that is what is expected when he appears in Court, so they seem to think he has a case to answer.  
Toulon issued a statement the day he and his teammate were arrested and have made it clear what will happen should he be charged.
Look at any Reuters article....the BBC reported it, Sky, the Guardian, ESPN, Eurosport, CityA.M etc etc
The rest of the info came from local radio stations and the Toulon area.They didn't seem best pleased with him.
As for playing for England, he has had his chance...he failed. And, this issue notwithstanding, I never wish to see him in an England shirt again. Not that I ever did in the first place. He is not English and he is a mercenary in the true sense of the word. So no, innocent until proven guilty, but, whatever the outcome, Toulon are welcome to keep him. 
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
05 Feb 2015, 14:09
#20
05 Feb 2015, 14:09#20
 Ceradyne I'd like to note that your source is DailyMail who are very questionable with regards to factual and reliable info
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
05 Feb 2015, 15:14
#21
05 Feb 2015, 15:14#21
@Becs, I see that you have now caught up with the fact that he has to appear on 19 Feb. The initial reports stated that a decision whether to charge him or not will only be made today (5 Feb). The fact is that he has not been charged which makes me doubt the bail story. Surely, you can only be released on bail if you have been charged with something.

I truly cannot find any statement that he has already been sanctioned last week. You say a number of things without providing anything to substantiate what you are saying.

Whether or not he gets selected to play for England is unfortunately not your decision. LOL

@Shezza. I have quoted the one source. It was not the only one that I checked up on. If you look again, you will note that I have told becs that I even looked at the French media. I said: "Why can't I find any such releases in the French press? The only ones that I could find agreed with the article that I quoted."

I have also had a look at an articlee in the Guardian, which more or less confirms the one in the Daily Mail.

Steffon Armitage freed from custody and will appear in court on 10 February • Likely to be charged with aggravated violence
• Toulon to sanction flanker if found guilty

The former England flanker Steffon Armitage was freed from custody on Thursday after being questioned over an alleged attack and will appear in court on 10 February over charges related to aggravated violence.

France Bleu radio reported that Armitage and his Toulon team-mate Xavier Chiocci were arrested on Wednesday over an incident last month involving a 30-year-old man after the club defeated Leicester in the European Champions Cup.

A police source said that Armitage had been released after spending the night in custody. A judicial source also said he would be go to court for aggravated violence although he had not been formally charged.

Earlier, Toulon said they would sanction Armitage should he be found guilty. “RC Toulon yesterday learned that two of their players, Xavier Chiocci and Steffon Armitage, were in custody,” the Top 14 club announced in a statement.

“Xavier Chiocci’s custody ended on Wednesday night and no charges were brought against him. Steffon Armitage’s custody lasted through the night.

“RC Toulon ... if need be will impose the necessary sanctions to preserve their core values.”

Armitage, one of the key men in the club’s rise to the top of the French and European game, has been frozen out of the England squad because the Rugby Football Union do not select overseas-based players. He has won five international caps.


I am, by nature, quite sceptical of what I read in the media and although I often only quote one source, I usually have a look at more than one. In this case, I even had a look at the French media,which in itself is quite an issue because of the translation. One of them http://www.nicematin.com/rct/videos-tout-ce-qu%E2%80%99il-faut-savoir-avant-rct-bayonne.2083292.html


Le RCT s’en serait bien passé…

Deux jours avant la venue de l’Aviron Bayonnais au stade Mayol, le RCT a défrayé la chronique "fait divers" à cause du dérapage de Steffon Armitage et Xavier Chiocci. Au soir du succès sur Leicester au mois de décembre, un Pradétan de 35 ans aurait été sérieusement amoché par les deux joueurs qui étaient ivres. La victime a 30 jours d'ITT et n'a toujours pas pu reprendre le travail.

>> RELIRE. Deux joueurs du RCT en garde à vue pour violences dans un restaurant

Après avoir passé une journée en garde à vue mercredi, Xavier Chiocci a été mis totalement hors de cause. En revanche, Steffon Armitage a quitté le tribunal à 11h30 ce jeudi matin avec une convocation pour le 10 février. D'ici son procès, il a interdiction de se rendre au restaurant La Plage, plages du Mourillon à Toulon, d'entrer en contact avec la victime et les témoins.

C’est donc dans ce climat tendu que le groupe varois a dû préparer cette rencontre, la dernière avant un congé de trois semaines.

Après deux gros matches en Champions Cup, les coéquipiers de Bakkies Botha devront faire attention au traditionnel syndrome de décompression qui est sont plus grand ennemi à l’aube de ce rendez-vous

Translation:


The RCT would be fine ...

Two days before the coming of Bayonne at Mayol stadium, CTN hit the headlines "news story" because of the skid Steffon Armitage and Xavier Chiocci. On the evening of success in Leicester in December, a Pradétan 35 years would have been seriously messed up by the two players who were drunk. The victim was 30 days ITT and still has not been able to return to work.

>> REREAD. Two players RCT in custody for assault in a restaurant

After spending a day in custody Wednesday Chiocci Xavier has been completely exonerated. However, Steffon Armitage left the court at 11:30 am on Thursday morning with a summons to 10 February. Until his trial, he was prohibited from entering the restaurant La Plage Mourillon beaches in Toulon, to make contact with the victim and witnesses.

It is in this tense atmosphere that the Var group had to prepare this meeting, the last before a leave of three weeks.

After two big games in the Champions Cup, teammates Bakkies Botha will have to pay attention to traditional decompression syndrome who are greatest enemy at the dawn of this appointment



SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
05 Feb 2015, 15:51
#22
05 Feb 2015, 15:51#22
 That wasn't a comment about your research on the matter, more along the lines of DailyMail are dodgy!
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
05 Feb 2015, 15:59
#23
05 Feb 2015, 15:59#23
Shezza, you'll find that Ceradunce takes any kind of criticism very personally even if the criticism isn't even aimed at him.

You'll probably get subjected to a long series of self-righteous and pedantic sermons for the next few days or weeks, all justifying why he posted whatever stupid and boring comment he made. That is the style of this tedious and self-absorbed old tosser.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Feb 2015, 16:10
#24
05 Feb 2015, 16:10#24
Say Rooinek I know you are a very modest chap, who never says anything about himself on these forums. But tell us again, how many years did you play for the first cricket team?
— END OF THREAD —

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