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FORUM / RUGBY /  Tuma will be difficult to eradicate

Tuma will be difficult to eradicate

Started by generaltit22 REPLIES794 VIEWS· 04 Apr 2017, 08:27
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GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
04 Apr 2017, 08:27
#1
04 Apr 2017, 08:27#1

ANALYSIS...Cour tesy of Huffington Post


When President Jacob Zuma fired Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan on Thursday, 30 March 2017 he did so after an audit of the balance of forces in the African National Congress (ANC) and broader society -- and it showed he has the upper hand.

Even though there seems to be large-scale mobilisation inside the party and among civil society formations, Zuma seems to be in control of every single relevant power bloc, while those that he doesn't control are either too small or don't have executive powers.

The only avenue open to insurrectionists seems to be the ANC's parliamentary caucus, whose leadership was on Saturday locked in discussions about Zuma's decision to eject Gordhan.

"We must not rest, we must not sit down or accept defeat," says Mavuso Msimang, an ANC veteran and a leader of the informal grouping of 100 party elders that earlier met with the party's leadership.

The veterans' initiative -- they asked for a special consultative conference to discuss the ructions in the party -- was dismissed by Zuma and the rest of the top six leaders. "They strung us along and discarded us. We went to talk to them, twice. There's no use anymore. The decision to oust Gordhan was outrageous. We now have to support civil society in resisting," added Msimang.

Gordhan addressed a packed Johannesburg City Hall on Saturday where the Ahmed Kathrada and Nelson Mandela Foundations, in conjunction with the Gauteng ANC and the South African Communist Party (SACP), hosted a memorial event for Kathrada, who died last week. The former minister said individuals, groups and communities across the political spectrum must "unite" to return the country to its founding ideals and added it is "very clear what the problems are and who is causing them".

Kathrada's widow, Barbara Hogan, made an emotional plea to Zuma, asking whether he has "eyes and ears" to see what is going on around him: "You have sacrificed everything we stand for on the altar of corruption and greed and more greed."

The event was attended by representatives of various organisations in civil society, including Zwelinzima Vavi, who has just helped launch a new trade union federation, Save South Africa and Section 27.

Senior sources in the Democratic Alliance (DA) parliamentary caucus told Huffington Post SA they have been informally approached by a "substantial" number of MP's from the ANC urging them to forge ahead with the tabling of a motion of no-confidence. The official opposition have also said if ANC MP's support the motion, the DA will support any candidate the governing party puts forward.

Inside the ANC's parliamentary caucus there seems to be some division over Zuma, with Chief Whip Jackson Mthembu becoming increasingly vocal in his criticism of the party leader. But Zuma supporters say there is no way the caucus will succeed in a vote of no-confidence, with many loyalist MP's drawn from rural areas and from provinces that are part of the so-called "premier league".

A senior ANC MP, who was aligned to former president Thabo Mbeki and was a long-serving member of the ANC's national executive committee, says the crisis in the party needs to be pinned on Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa and Secretary-General Gwede Mantashe.

"They should have foreseen what would happen, especially Mantashe. He was warned, but he didn't want to listen, he dismissed us. In fact, he voted for Zuma twice. He created this situation. They [Ramaphosa and Mantashe] should have given guidance long ago, but calls for Zuma to resign were rejected because they said we should now be consistent, we must stick with him," he added.

Even though Ramaphosa, Mantashe and Treasurer-General Zweli Mkhize have all publicly rebuked their leader, they seem powerless to either rein him in or stop him.

Zuma has, since 9 December 2015, when he unilaterally and disastrously replaced Nhlanla Nene as finance minister, suffered no consequences for the Constitutional Court's Nkandla judgment (March 2016), the ANC's poor election results (August 2016) and the public protector's damaging report into state capture (October 2016).

If he could survive that -- and given the range of power blocs behind him -- he can surely survive this calamity.

THE BALANCE OF FORCES: SOLID ZUMA

Cabinet
Zuma is increasingly becoming an imperial president: surrounded by hardline loyalists in the security cluster, open to paranoia and conspiracies and surrounded by bodyguards. With the ousting of Gordhan from Treasury he now has total control over the state and the levers of power. The executive is totally beholden to him.

The ANC'S NEC
When Derek Hanekom and others, including Gordhan, moved a motion to debate Zuma's fitness to hold office was tabled at a meeting of the NEC in December it was soundly defeated. The 80-member body, the party's highest decision-making body between national conferences, fell silently into line. The NEC fired Mbeki in 2008, but only because Zuma had the numbers. He still has.

The Leagues
Under Zuma, the ANC's youth league was neutered and cleansed of challengers like Julius Malema. It has now re-emerged as a frantic cheerleader for the president and his populism, only trumped in the scale and commitment of its sycophancy by Bathabile Dlamini's women's league. These organisations act as attack dogs for Zuma -- and they are very effective

The Premier League
The premiers and the provincial executives of Mpumalanga, North West, Free State and KwaZulu-Natal have created a network of patronage and political influence that has established a grassroots operation to muster support for Zuma and his chosen successor as party leader which won't be easily matched, if at all. They might use Zuma, but Zuma also uses them.

The Guptas And ANN7
The Gupta family are business partners of Edward Zuma and close friends of the president. Former public protector Thuli Madonsela's investigation into the family's role in state capture -- their influence in the appointment of ministers, access to business opportunities with the state and threats to senior civil servants -- is well documented. They nevertheless remain lurking in the background, using their media outlets produce a never-ending stream of propaganda.

THE BALANCE OF FORCES: HOUSES DIVIDED

The ANC's Top Six Leadership
There is no doubt the top six leadership is deeply divided. Ramaphosa, Mantashe and treasurer-general Zweli Mkhoze have all publicly registered their unhappiness with the way Zuma reshuffled his Cabinet. Only Jessie Duarte (deputy secretary-general) and Baleka Mbete have not yet done so -- which might suggest they are either on Zuma's side of the chasm that's opened up, or are uncertain. Even so, the leadership have proven impotent in influencing or disciplining Zuma.

The Alliance
The SACP initially came out very strongly when the rumours of a Cabinet reshuffle were starting to emerge, threatening a walkout of its members who are serving on the executive. It has since demanded that Zuma resign, but leaders like Blade Nzimande and Jeremy Cronin remain ministers and deputy ministers. Cosatu has literally said nothing.

The ANC's Parliamentary Caucus
Where the NEC has the power to "recall" the president as an ANC deployee to government, the caucus has actual constitutional power to dismiss the president. If 50 MP's vote with the opposition, they could conceivably carry a vote of no-confidence, which means Zuma would have to leave office. But even with the strident rhetoric of Mthembu, a lot of spadework will have to be done before the ANC votes against their own leader, in public, and at the behest of the opposition. There certainly is major disgust with Zuma in caucus. But is it enough?

THE BALANCE OF FORCES: THE RESISTANCE

The Foundations And Their Partners
This is perhaps the most potent of the oppositional formations -- but the one with no executive power. The symbolism of the foundations of Nelson Mandela and Ahmed Kathrada coming together against Zuma is extremely powerful. Kathrada's funeral, where former president Kgalema Motlanthe read aloud Kathrada's letter to Zuma imploring him to resign, was just as significant, as was the public support given to Gordhan that day. But it helped little as Gordhan was fired 48 hours later. The rise of organisations like Section27, and Save South Africa is working to mobilise at grassroots level. It could be this mobilisation that could influence voting patterns. And that could influence the ANC.

Civil Society II
Corruption Watch, Freedom Under Law, the Helen Suzman Foundation, the Committee for the Advancement of the South African Constitution (Casac) and the Black Sash have become active watchdogs over the executive, scoring a number of important court victories over Zuma's executive and the encroachments of executive power. The courts are wary to intervene in governance, but it has recently been forced to do so a number of times, to the betterment of society.

The Opposition
Julius Malema's Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF), for all their bluster and populism, have a keen eye for a political gap and have developed a degree of sophistication in their extra-parliamentary activities (it was the EFF which took Zuma to court over the Nkandla invesitgation). More pertinently, it is Malema -- with his extensive contacts and enjoying widespread sympathy inside the party -- that is a threat. He knows where the bodies are buried and which ones to dig up. The Democratic Alliance is an important cog: it will drive the parliamentary opposition to Zuma, leveraging process and the Constitution as the basis of its attacks.


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
04 Apr 2017, 19:24
#2
04 Apr 2017, 19:24#2
 I'm afraid there are only 2 possibly scenarios:
1.He knew for sure he will get away with it.2. He knew it was 50/50 and he might get away with it now and not later.
If he gets away with it now, we are doomed. He'll get re-elected as President of the ANC at the end of the year and be proxy PREZ for the rest of his life, drawing SA into the same hellhole as Zim. Evil bastard.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Apr 2017, 21:08
#3
04 Apr 2017, 21:08#3
 I also think he will get away with it Draad - but as I read the situation it is going to get worse - especially if that sour thing (his ex-wife) gets elected  as ANC Leader.  Zuma cannot stand for a third term as ANC president - Mbeki tried in 2007 - but failed. 
If things get worse in the interim to 2019 - which I am sure it will - the ANC has no chance of being re-elected with an absolute majority in Parliament - they will have to get support from an opposition party.   If the Communist Party runs on own steam they will take 5 to 8%  of the votes and that would bring the ANC to under 50 %
However, things are going to be so bad by 2019 that those voters who stayed away in the Municipal Elections because of dissatisfaction,  is likely to vote for the opposition next time around.  That may even reduce the ANC MP's to less than half.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
05 Apr 2017, 06:43
#4
05 Apr 2017, 06:43#4
 Draad...There is a third.
He was set up. It's possible that he was lead to believe that he had the full support his second in charge and co, who then left him out in the cold after he dropped the hammer.
It's possible that they saw it as an opportunity to get him out. If so, good job and I hope it works.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Apr 2017, 08:12
#5
05 Apr 2017, 08:12#5
 Plum
The Gupta crowd is in full cry.  We even have a Minister for Gupta Affairs (Gigaba) - the umpteenth one in the Cabinet.   I think that list of Ministers  submitted by Zupta was actually compiled by the Guptas and so was the so-called security report.   Pretty sure there will be a court case on that appointments and then the sh!t will hit the fan.
The ex-Minister for Transport has said nothing yet about the SARS story and that is aso going to feature soon.      
 
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
05 Apr 2017, 13:12
#6
05 Apr 2017, 13:12#6
 All kind of talks that has one merit: make enough noise to cover other questions that are decisive.
Too bad resources in SA were not as resilient as this guy is sold to be. SA would be a different situation.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,260 posts
05 Apr 2017, 14:02
#7
05 Apr 2017, 14:02#7
I think the consumption of resources in SA must be increased.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
05 Apr 2017, 19:11
#8
05 Apr 2017, 19:11#8
 He was obviously set up in a way and this whole thing has added to his waning lack of support. At this stage it looks like an early strike to prevent a 3rd term as ANC president.  Mbekie tried it and failed, but Zuma might think he has enough power and support to pull it off. Putin got away with a similar ploy in Russia. Not the same thing, but anything is possible in Africa. 
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
05 Apr 2017, 20:14
#9
05 Apr 2017, 20:14#9
Draad, Russia needs Putin despite his faults...He is a very strong leader...Zuma does not come light years within him as a man let alone leader...in fact Zuma is an embarrassment to us and to the world who regards him as a joke like Idi Amin and Gadaffi's class and even DT is outclassed, in fact he is the best leader in the world amongst the rest...most of you westerners do not have an iota of a clue of his support in Russia which is mostly with the youth and he will have a third term because of this because he is relatively young and fit and not at all like those ass-hole old farts that led the USSR in the past.... Yeah he makes mistakes but no more than Churchill or Ike but his KGB apparent attitude is not true...like us all is a victim of the past...we all have made mistakes and have no choices at times.

Zuma on the otherhand is a puppet, totally unqualified interlectually to lead, a gangster that steals, cheats and lies and is a character like Al Capone without the intelligence.

He must go or else we are going from the frying pan into the fire and that's for sure.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Apr 2017, 20:32
#10
05 Apr 2017, 20:32#10
 Draad
Zuma has turned the whole issue into a tribal one and he has he support of the Zulus, especially the rural votes.   However even that is tenuous since the Majority of the ANC in the latest elections are also in the 57% range.   There was a by-election last week in Pietermaritzburg and the ANC support slipped badly.    
In the Municipal Elections  last year the DA got 47,78% of the vote and the ANC  46%.   In the by-election the DA got 53% of the vote and the ANC 44%.   There is a similar trend in all recent by-elections.   In some cases the decline of ANC support slipped by as much as 30%.  
With Zuma as ANC President the ANC will be lucky if they get 40% of the vote and some in the ANC realize that.    Election rigging is still possible - but is getting more and more difficult.   The Courts are not really on the side of Zupta Incorporated.    
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
05 Apr 2017, 20:48
#11
05 Apr 2017, 20:48#11
Ol Maaik ...the DA is the way to go...visited Cape Town and found most of the municipal facilities streaks ahead of the crap we have in Natal. They are not perfect but are balanced...KZN is a night mare...glad for your sake you moved to the Cape...we are going too either Knysna or Herman us...I've been hi-jacked just outside my home and the SA police did f.all despite the fact that the closed circuit tv had them covered...no, everything is corrupt here...it's a criminals paradise with the cops aided them.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Apr 2017, 04:50
#12
06 Apr 2017, 04:50#12
Seb
Sorry - but the Acting Head of the Police is allegedly involved in bribery - so what is to be expected from the underlings? 
Riversdale is a paradise compared to where I used to live.   Crime here consists of break-ins when people are absent from their homes and is not a regular occurrence.   The Municipality keeps the town clean - the roads are good despite the upgrading of the stormwater system at present on the go.  
House prices here are comparatively low - unlike on the coast where prices are relatively high.       
    
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
07 Apr 2017, 06:50
#13
07 Apr 2017, 06:50#13
 I think the consumption of resources in SA must be increased.

There is no other way when it comes to raise or maintain the welfare in SA.

The question is how to reach that outcome, considering that the SA environment is on the decline and importing the mass of resources is going to be very hard.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
07 Apr 2017, 08:21
#14
07 Apr 2017, 08:21#14
 I think we should use every resource available to make ourselves as rich as possible. 
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
07 Apr 2017, 12:42
#15
07 Apr 2017, 12:42#15
 Certainly not the road taken in SA.

The road taken in SA is to plunge people in permanent misery.

Sooner or later, it will turn out that people living in mud huts with a preserved environment are richer than people living in mud huts with a depleted environment.

Going to knock at the door.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
07 Apr 2017, 16:00
#16
07 Apr 2017, 16:00#16
 The reason why our population is still increasing at an allarming rate is because our version of poverty is still much better than other 3rd world countries. Always amuses me to drive past squatter camps and see Mercs and BMW's in a few drive eays and DSTV dishes on every shack, yet they don't pay water and complain about their reduced rate electricity. Kids school is also free.
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
07 Apr 2017, 16:26
#17
07 Apr 2017, 16:26#17
Basically all of the above can be summed up as follows.

Africa has a custom of always using the wrong head. 

Schooling is free because who in their right mind would wish to pay for that low grade of education.




GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
07 Apr 2017, 19:08
#18
07 Apr 2017, 19:08#18
Mike, Riversdale sounds like my type of place and so does up the west coast...Clanwilliam and I know these places well but I'm not fully retired and need business activity...these places I chose are relatively close to airports...George and Cape Town but are rustic and away from the crap you find in big cities...Clanwilliam is my ideal place though and it's probably where I will eventually retire.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
07 Apr 2017, 19:41
#19
07 Apr 2017, 19:41#19
 The reason why our population is still increasing at an allarming rate is because our version of poverty is still much better than other 3rd world countries.

What is an alarming rate? Easy to find places where the population is growing faster.

Beside, SA is also subjected to migration inflows since resources from the bottom half of Africa is funnelled down to Capestown.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
08 Apr 2017, 07:18
#20
08 Apr 2017, 07:18#20
 It's not funneled, it flows naturally due to migration and the migration is a direct result of a better opportunities, which is again a result of slightly better governance. The Western Cape doesn't have a lot of hard resources, but the people here seems to make do with what they have a bit better...main case in point is a better level of education as illustrated by the yearly matric results.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Apr 2017, 09:11
#21
08 Apr 2017, 09:11#21
 The problem with Trad is that he thinks that bribery and corruption is not a problem and that it does not affect the poor negatively.   Even some members of he ANC thinks corruption is a bad component of the ANC - but the party is so corrupt it is unbelievable.
Zuma is totally corrupt and the following Ministers are as well:
Gigaba, Van Rooyen, Dlamini, Tzwane, Mabulela, The Minister of Water Affairs, The Minister of the Public Service, Malhobo, etc
Then we have incompetence and lying as well.  Gigaba on his first day in the office lied about the downgrading - but he is following the line of Zuma - endless lies about Nene, the so-called Security Report, etc.  The report was apparently done by the Guptas and so was the list of appointees.   His security services and the NPA and new Public Protector is in Zupta's pocket as well.
So we are governed by thieves and liars - and the main thief refuses to sign the new Fica Bill passed by parliament - he cannot because half of the Cabinet Ministers will  end up in jail and so would he and that son of his who works for the Guptas. 
Wonder what the Constitutional Court thinks about that lot - must be churning with discontent as well,   Zuma must start praying the present fiasco does not end up in that court. 
Get rid of Zuma and clean up the corruption and patronage systems and the Rand will go to between 8 and 10 Rand to the Dollar.   


  
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
08 Apr 2017, 09:34
#22
08 Apr 2017, 09:34#22
 Mike, is it his son or his nephew you're talking about?
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
08 Apr 2017, 09:36
#23
08 Apr 2017, 09:36#23
 This lard-ass?
— END OF THREAD —

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