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URC: Bottom of the Rainbow for SA teams

Started by kingcorn11 REPLIES1,928 VIEWS· 27 Sept 2021, 12:03
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KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
27 Sept 2021, 12:03
#1
27 Sept 2021, 12:03#1

For years we thought that no European team can touch  our Southern Hemisphere teams and that an under 18 high school team can wipe the floor with any team up north. But, how utterly wrong we were. 


Other than the lions that were able to beat Zebre,  not really a decent team. The best we had to offer got completely annihilated. 


I had hope for the bulls but Leinster just completely blew the door down. 


Sharks never looked to be a threat against munster


Stormers, with all of their administration issues was never really going to be an issue. 


Just looking at how our SA teams attack vs the Irish, one can clearly sea that we have lost our ability to actually to be able to use our backline. 


This I lay at the feet of Rassie as he has been working with Unions for the past 3 years but all we end up now is flat backlines, shift the ball and a crash in the midfield. No clever angles, try get over the gain line with your hands free, no supporting runner. 


Our forwards have become limpets, just try to stuck onto the ball carrier, no pop passes. Where as Leinster didn't try steam roll the man but just short angles and good hands. Josh van der vleur is not the biggest man but he got a lot of space and shredded the bulls. 


The other problem, the transformation brothers. The sharks have gone out of their way to go as black as possible but then their loose forwards got completely destroyed, other than Penxe with sheer pace, nothing else to offer. 


Our best players are playing against us. RG Snyman running out of Munster!!! Jean Kleyn, to name a few. 


Our WC success has hidden all of the the failures and it will take another 12 years before we can get back to the top. 


Bring back our best players!!! Start paying them some decent money! New Zealand found a way. 


I also blame Rassie because he scrapped the central contracts and told the unions to carry the buck. Set a salary cap and some weird loop hole. 


But with the earnings from URC, surely the SA teams would earn the same amount as the teams they play against. No reason not try and retain the players. 


Imagine a bulls team with the likes of Pollard, Serfontein and Kriel or Stormers with Etzebeth, Koch, Louw and Kolbe. Maybe Kolbe and Etzebeth being the only 2 players who will be hard to retain given how much they get paid in France. 


Sharks with the steroid twins. But all of them are too white to play for SA. 


I hope I'm wrong but not sure if it is even worth watching our provinces anymore. Looks like we have gone the same way cricket did . Dilute our domestic league and eventually it is going to effect the top.  The cracks are already showing. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Sept 2021, 12:15
#2
27 Sept 2021, 12:15#2
King it’s perspective Our domestic sides are weak - look what happened to the Bulls in that final a few months back With more than 100 of our provincial players now playing overseas plus a Bok squad of 40 odd it leaves our domestic sides with a sprinkling of quality players You know our domestic game is struggling when you see washed up has beens returning because our provinces are the only sides desperate enough to sign them Hell we have the likes of Brok Harris, Juan de Jongh, Herbst, Jannie and Bismark du Plessis, Morne Steyn, Mapoe, Frans Steyn, Ruan Pienaar, Adriaanse all back which kind of reflects the quality of the sides
MO
MoonroverPro1,973 posts
27 Sept 2021, 12:31
#3
27 Sept 2021, 12:31#3

Nothing new.The Cheetahs battled in Europe and hardly lost at home.

Will be interesting to see how Leinster, Glasgow,Benetton and Cardiff  tour around here.

The only team that really toured well in Super R ugby here was the Crusaders.






KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
27 Sept 2021, 14:31
#4
27 Sept 2021, 14:31#4

Ja Saffex, I agree that we have lost a couple of players abroad and some being away on tour. We won't see them until at least December. Just very disappointing not having thee best bulls team face Leinster, but then again. Don't think they are missing any top boks. 

But looking at this list, don't think any of our local based players that are in the bok squad would help our teams


KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
27 Sept 2021, 14:35
#5
27 Sept 2021, 14:35#5
PlayerPositionDate of birth (age)CapsClub/provinceJoseph DwebaHooker25 October 1995 (age 25)1France BordeauxJohan GrobbelaarHooker30 December 1997 (age 23)0South Africa BullsMalcolm MarxHooker13 July 1994 (age 27)41Japan Kubota SpearsBongi MbonambiHooker7 January 1991 (age 30)43South Africa StormersThomas du ToitProp5 May 1995 (age 26)13South Africa SharksSteven KitshoffProp10 February 1992 (age 29)54South Africa StormersVincent KochProp13 March 1990 (age 31)26England SaracensWilco LouwProp20 July 1994 (age 27)14England HarlequinsFrans MalherbeProp14 March 1991 (age 30)45South Africa StormersOx NchéProp23 July 1995 (age 26)5South Africa SharksTrevor NyakaneProp4 May 1989 (age 32)48South Africa BullsLood de JagerLock17 December 1992 (age 28)51England Sale SharksRynhardt ElstadtLock20 December 1989 (age 31)3France ToulouseEben EtzebethLock29 October 1991 (age 29)92France ToulonNico Janse van RensburgLock6 May 1994 (age 27)1France MontpellierFranco MostertLock27 November 1990 (age 30)46Japan Mie Honda HeatMarvin OrieLock15 February 1993 (age 28)7South Africa StormersRG SnymanLock29 January 1995 (age 26)23Ireland MunsterDan du PreezLoose forward5 August 1995 (age 26)6England Sale SharksSiya Kolisi (c)Loose forward16 June 1991 (age 30)58South Africa SharksKwagga SmithLoose forward11 June 1993 (age 28)14Japan Shizuoka Blue RevsMarco van StadenLoose forward25 August 1995 (age 26)8England Leicester TigersDuane VermeulenLoose forward3 July 1986 (age 35)56South Africa BullsJasper WieseLoose forward21 October 1995 (age 25)7England Leicester TigersFaf de KlerkScrum-half19 October 1991 (age 29)34England Sale SharksJaden HendrikseScrum-half23 March 2000 (age 21)2South Africa SharksHerschel JantjiesScrum-half22 April 1996 (age 25)16South Africa StormersCobus ReinachScrum-half7 February 1990 (age 31)18France MontpellierElton JantjiesFly-half1 August 1990 (age 31)40France PauHandré PollardFly-half11 March 1994 (age 27)55France MontpellierMorné SteynFly-half11 July 1984 (age 37)68South Africa BullsLukhanyo AmCentre28 November 1993 (age 27)21South Africa SharksDamian de AllendeCentre25 November 1991 (age 29)53Ireland MunsterJesse KrielCentre15 February 1994 (age 27)47Japan Yokohama Canon EaglesFrançois SteynCentre14 May 1987 (age 34)69South Africa CheetahsCheslin KolbeWing28 October 1993 (age 27)18France ToulouseMakazole MapimpiWing26 July 1990 (age 31)20South Africa SharksSbu NkosiWing21 January 1996 (age 25)14South Africa SharksRosko SpecmanWing28 April 1989 (age 32)1South Africa CheetahsAphelele FassiFullback23 January 1998 (age 23)2South Africa SharksWillie le RouxFullback18 August 1989 (age 32)68Japan Toyota VerblitzDamian WillemseFullback7 May 1998 (age 23)14South Africa Stormers
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
27 Sept 2021, 14:40
#6
27 Sept 2021, 14:40#6

Maybe the only franchise team that can do with the boks are the Sharks. 

Bulls

Johan GrobbelaarHooker30 December 1997 (age 23)0Trevor NyakaneProp4 May 1989 (age 32)48Duane VermeulenLoose forward3 July 1986 (age 35)56Morné SteynFly-half11 July 1984 (age 37)68
Sharks
Thomas du ToitProp5 May 1995 (age 26)13South Africa SharksOx NchéProp23 July 1995 (age 26)5South Africa SharksSiya Kolisi (c)Loose forward16 June 1991 (age 30)58South Africa SharksJaden HendrikseScrum-half23 March 2000 (age 21)2South Africa SharksLukhanyo AmCentre28 November 1993 (age 27)21South Africa SharksMakazole MapimpiWing26 July 1990 (age 31)20South Africa SharksSbu NkosiWing21 January 1996 (age 25)14South Africa SharksAphelele FassiFullback23 January 1998 (age 23)2South Africa Sharks

StormersBongi MbonambiHooker7 January 1991 (age 30)43South Africa StormersSteven KitshoffProp10 February 1992 (age 29)54South Africa StormersFrans MalherbeProp14 March 1991 (age 30)45South Africa StormersMarvin OrieLock15 February 1993 (age 28)7South Africa StormersHerschel JantjiesScrum-half22 April 1996 (age 25)16South Africa StormersDamian WillemseFullback7 May 1998 (age 23)14South Africa Stormers

We really need to get our boks back in SA, and fast


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Sept 2021, 14:48
#7
27 Sept 2021, 14:48#7
Its not so much the return of the Boks it’s more the over 100 provincial players now playing in Europe or Japan that our sides are missing That’s effectively 4 full sides and their benches playing abroad And most of those players are in their prime
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
27 Sept 2021, 16:04
#8
27 Sept 2021, 16:04#8

I agree on that Saffex, just going through the list and I'm not even talking about those in the current bok setup. 

We have Tyrone Green and Esterhuizen at Harlequins. Sale Sharks has clutch of players, The we have Jannes Kirsten and RG Snyman at Munster. David Ribban, Vermeulen etc. The list goes on. 

But instead we have Pepsi Butalesi, can someone honestly tell me that he is better than Dan Du Preeze. maybe in time he'll  get better but he needs to take it off Dan. 

As I said, just imagine Pollard, Serfontein, Kriel, Kirsten, Snyman back at the bulls. 

Rassie  need to start working with Mark Alexander and start to figure out how to get boys back. If we want to break into European Rugby then our teams will have to start winning 

That can only happen if we bring our best players back

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Sept 2021, 17:14
#9
27 Sept 2021, 17:14#9
The list is endless of players not in the current squads either playing abroad, injured or in the Bok squad Fullbacks: Willie / Fassi / Willemse / Andries Coetzee / Swanepoel Wings: Mapimpi/ Kolbe / Nkosi / Lleyds/ Ismiel/ Skosan / Green / Rhule / Senatla / Specman / Zas / Stiaan Pienaar / v Wyk Centres: Esterhuizen / de Allende / Jessie Kriel/ Am / Janse v Rensburg/ Serfontein / Kotze / Frans Venter / Nico Lee / Tertius Kruger / JT Jackson You get the picture?
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
27 Sept 2021, 19:18
#10
27 Sept 2021, 19:18#10

Will be interesting to see how Leinster, Glasgow,Benetton and Cardiff  tour around here.


Which sides. Most of them, especially the irish one, are known to rotate their squads according to theirs objectives. They may consider the tour in SA as training grounds for inexperienced players, games to nurture injured players back to form, or resting games that must be played because they must be etc

Players may in fact go to SA more to hunt lions on some of those lion farms where lions are grown up to satisfy trophy hunters than to play rugby.

SA rugby want to make a statement, they target those sides when they are known to play full strength, with mandate for a positive result.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
27 Sept 2021, 19:26
#11
27 Sept 2021, 19:26#11

SA players do not play for their country, for the love of rugby. They play for money. They are guns for hire. Their loyalty goes to the highest bidder. They switch sides for one euro more. No check, they do not get up.

Completely out of question SA rugby have the means to compete with european sides.

Joining the euro competition only means a passage toward wealthy sides. Putting out alluring displays to join a side elsewhere.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
27 Sept 2021, 19:28
#12
27 Sept 2021, 19:28#12

That’s effectively 4 full sides and their benches playing abroad


That can be believed. And four full back lines that work wonders in any team they play.

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