Vermeulen under the knife again

The following from News24:-
"Toulon's bid to win back the Top 14 title will start without the services of their giant South African No 8 Duane Vermeulen, who underwent minor surgery on a nagging groin injury, the club said on Wednesday.

"He'll be out for three months," a club spokesperson said, adding Toulon had no plans to recruit a replacement for the 31-year-old, 1.93m former Stormers man capped 31 times by the Springboks.

Last season's losing Top 14 finalists Toulon have come under the scrutiny of French rugby's financial watchdog in the close season and have been less active than in recent years on the transfer market.

This means Vermeulen will also miss the Springboks' entire Rugby Championship campaign."

It is always a pity when rugby players gets injured and Vermeulen is no exception.   He was injured in 2015 and had to undergo a neck operation.   As a result he was out until the WC where he made his return in the round 2 match after the fiasco against Japan.   Vermeulen was not really up to standard during the WC and the operation on his neck was probably the reason.

In the 2016 Top 14 and other European competitions Vermeulen was out with a knee injury and on his return from that injury he was definitely out of form.

He came back in 2017 in the European season and showed some positive signs of again playing good rugby.   However, now another injury and he is off for another three months.   I hope he recovers soonest.

The above remains a problem for SA - his services are needed - but Vermeulen is in the unfortunate position that he seems to be injury-plagued.   This often happen in the case of older players and Vermeulen is no spring chicken.   Some older players avoid injury by reducing contact to the minimum - but that is not Vermeulen's style.   

Under the above circumstances I think Vermeulen's test career is over and I doubt very much if he would make the Springbok team again.   

 

Vermeulen is done for.  At the start of his career, he was totally injury prone, and he seems to have returned to this status quo.

 He had a couple of good years but sadly he is done. Should have tried to modify his playing style like McCaw / Burger did over the years. If a player can do this he can extend his career but seems like Vermeulen could not do this.

At his best one of the three best number eights in the game.

 A three month break may rejuvenate him.

 He has not been one of the best three for the past three years and after the last injury breaks he took many, many months longer to get back a semblance of his previous p erformances.

Oh sure....that's why he was an official World Rugby Player of the Year candidate iat the end of 2014.....less than 3 years ago. You just can't help yourself Pervert.

You are indeed too stupid to comment on anything.  Can you not read Bster?  My comments were iro his return after injuries in 2015, 2016 and now and he WAS NOT INJURED in 2014.
So what has your comments on 2014 about his candidacy as World Player of the Year in 2014 to do with the issue?     

Apart from the fact that its not three years since some of his great performances in 2014.....he was also the highest rated Bok in our WC win over Wales: .... Duane Vermeulen Hugely physical player but also an outstanding footballer with extraordinarily high skill level. 9 ... Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3277274/Wales-19-23-South-Africa-PLAYER-RATINGS-Duane-Vermeulen-leads-Dan-Biggar-shows-class.html#ixzz4nNeSfeXr Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook ... Stop talking shyte Tokkie.

Mozart let me give you his test stats for the WC:- 
Samoa
Vermeulen0/000/1/9421300 4/10/010/0
Scotland
Vermeulen0/000/5/10401000 6/02/110/0
USA
Vermeulen0/000/4/11681610 6/04/010/0

Wales
Vermeulen0/100/7/15900210 12/21/020/0
New Zealand
Vermeulen0/000/4/8120000 7/13/000/0
So what do we get out of the above - bearing in mind the fat that at least two of the above are minion teams: -   
Vermeulen0/100/21/5325231110 35/411/150/0
Do lets look at the above stats objectively:-
4,75 meters gain per carry.   
Not really all that wonderful bearing in mind the requirements of 8's.   Compared to a player like Read Vemeulen was way below par
Tackles  made  35 missed  4  
The man is a loosie - the much-maligned by you De Jager made 69 tackles missing 2.   That is nearly double and he is a lock. 
In any event - how many matches have you watched in which Vermeulen played for his club.   There is not a single member of this site - bar you - who think that Vermeulen is still performing on the same level as he did in 2014.  
You are specializing in horse shyte Bster.

Actually 4.75 metres per carry is way high for an 8th man. As is a 90% tackle success ratio...even better than I thought , thanks for that Poofter.

 3Mozart
It is indeed not possible to discuss rugby issues with you - you are totally ignorant.
Let me explain the tackle count of Vermeulen as a loosie was low - especially of it is born in mind that in the same game a lock made circa double the number of tackles the loosie made and the loosie missed double the number of tackles the lock missed.   Nothing hot about that I am afraid.   
And then there is the case that a N8 frequently falls back to cover kicked balls and have a few meters open field ahead of him before running into defenders,   The average distance is very, very average and is definitely not "way high".
However, the question remains - have you watched any club games in which Vermeulen played?   I did and e was very invisible in the games I saw.  
Your level of argument is totally ignorant --- so I should not actually bother to argue with you in any rugby topic - since it is way above your comprehension.    

 
Be a little more specific, Chip.

When you say ... "At his best one of the three best number eights in the game" ...

are you suggesting that he was one of the top 3 best 8th men in the history of South African rugby ... or globally ... and I presume you have a time period where you rate him as such ... which would be ... ?

We all know he hasn't been a top contender for the last few years now so I presume it's up untill 2014 . 

Turncoat I would have thought the phrase was self explanatory....how stupid are you?

So here we have the WC stats for Read. Note he played as lock sub in the Namibia game. For the rest he started at number 8. . So we see Vermeulen's 53 runs gained 252 metres, 89 more metres than Reid's 61 runs......at an average of 4.75 metres a carry dwarfing the 2.67 for Read. . He made 35 tackles in 5 games or 7 tackles a game vs Read's 54 tackles in 7 games or 8 tackles per game....almost comparable. Both players completed 90% of their tackles. . So there you have it.....the tackling stats both high and close.....Vermeulen way more productive as a ball carrier. This a comparison against the player Tokkie said represented a level way above Vermeulen at the WC. . Pathetic lying again and yet another SPCT (Society for Prevention of Cruelty to the Truth) alert! . N8 Read 0/0 0 0/13/13 54 2 3 2 4 10/2 8/0 0 0/0 . (L) Read 0/1 0 0/3/5 7 0 0 0 1 1/0 1/0 0 0/0 . N8 Read 1/1 5 0/13/9 23 0 0 0 3 4/0 5/2 0 0/0 . N8 Read 0/0 0 0/6/8 20 0 0 0 2 12/0 5/1 2 1/0 . N8 Read 1/0 5 1/8/7 20 1 0 0 3 9/2 3/2 1 0/0 . N8 Read 0/0 0 0/7/7 13 0 0 0 1 8/0 3/1 5 0/ . N8 Read 0/0 0 1/2/12 26 0 1 0 3 11/0 3/0 1 0/0 . . .

 Mozart
Your usage of stats is lying personified.    Since you do not understand the game you are useless and it is impossible to discuss anything with you.

Point out the lie .....I'm curious. So curious that I'll keep this active just in case you miss it first time.

 Duane won us the match against Wales with his offload to FDP in the death of the match.

Damn right.

Real pity. A Vermuelen type is exactly what we need to round out our loose forward combination. JL du preez brings some of those qualities.
JW correctly pointing out a playing style based on physicality primarily is not one for longevity. Vunipola starting to show the effects of being a battering ram too. Same could be said of effort players as well. It's not sustainable long term (ie Lood). 
No substitute for brains and first class technique no matter what the position.

 
I thought as much.

A very bold statement I must say ... or is it perhaps just another deluded bit of ignorance ... specially when he's competing against the likes of Zinzan Brooke, Sergio Parisse, Louis Picamoles, Billy Vunipola, Dean Richards, Lawrance Dallaglio, Kieran Read, Mervyn Davies, Juan Manuel Leguizamon, Sebastien Chabal, Samu Manoa and Wayne Shelford,

He was a good quality player but I would never go as far as to rate him that highly.

I suppose one could compare this bold statement of yours to the one you made last year regarding the egg laying counter ruck strategy you thought we all needed to hear.

LOL!!!

When I think of the very best 8th man (of all time) I'd want in my team, the name of Duane Vermeulen doesn't spring to mind ... but rather guys like Zinzan Brooke, Sergio Parisse or Wayne Shelford are more the type I'd be looking for.

Each to his own I guess.

Duane Vermeulen is not even in the top 3 South African #8s of all time. Not even close.

Who in his right mind would elevate a one-season wonder like Vermeulen to the levels of true legends like Hennie Muller, Doug Hopwood, Tommy Bedford, Morne du Plessis, Gary Teichmann . . . heck even Bob Skinstad!

Only a complete rugby noob could make such a statement.

 
How could I have forgotten Hennie Muller. Probably one of the greatest South African rugby players of all time.

There is absolute no comparison.

Can easily chalk him up amongst the best 8th men ever to grace the field.

This is typical Mozart - an utter rugby illi terate.   When a lock makes double the number of tackles made by a loosie and the lock's tackle misses are half of that of the loosie the fact is that the loosie tackle count is too low and his misses too high.  
 

Vermeulen had a good few seasons. I would rate him as one of the best Bok eight-man in the professional era. 
He had a very good all round game, so he could vary his style of play depending on the match predicament. Effective at rucks as well as a ball carrier, and he could link with the backs. 
Gary Teichman was probably better than Vermeulen. Similar types of players with high work rates.
Bob Skinstad was the most skilled, but he never contributed at the rucks, or on defence. He was a backline player without a position that had the skills of a scrumhalf and the speed of a wing.

Not saying he was the best or anything, but with ball in hand Spies in his early career was epic. He was a player that I feel never even nearly reached his true potential. Not enough mongrel, and aggression for an international 8, but a fantastic athletic specimen none the less. 

Vermeulen was unlucky in that he only became a bok relatively late in his career. I think he would have achieved a lot more had he been in the bok setup from early in his twenties. 

Teichman was average as a test player, more valuable as a leader.....Hennie Muller was a Whitelock type of player, when the game wasn't as brutal at the breakdown....Skinstad and Spies were great runners, and Skinstad could tackle. .. Vermeulen was a more modern number 8, and at his best every bit as good as Read. He reminds me more of Doug Hopwood who was brilliant on our tour of the UK and France in 60/61.

Spies was good for a short while. Although, he probably should have stayed on the wing. 

 Vermeulen WAS exceptional - since his constant injuries less so.   Stop living in the past - it is of no practical good.   

 clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 26948RE: Vermeulen under the knife again 
July 21, 2017, 18:03:29

 Vermeulen WAS exceptional - since his constant injuries less so.   Stop living in the past - it is of no practical good.   

Who are you talking to? Mozart, Rooinek or CC?

 This guy Vermeulen was a great number 8. Big problem was he played about 4 seasons or more of outstanding rugby but was overlooked by halfwit selectors. Not rooitwits type of player though, far too rough etc  Rooitwit dislikes the Eben type of forward.  You know real warriors. 

 Ceradunce
Like you the one living in the past is obvious - your lord and master Mozart

First of all mamparra, I only have one Lord and Master and He is not a member of RuckersForum. Second, if what you are saying is a fact then you have once again exposed yourself as massively hypocritical and judgemental.

Ceradyne
 
Status: Rugby Legend 
Posts: 6087RE: Vermeulen under the knife again 
July 21, 2017, 23:40:48

First of all mampara, I only have one Lord and Master and He is not a member of RuckersForum. . 

I will ask my Master and tell you what he says. 

"At his best, one of the three best number 8s in the game" obviously relates to a contemporary comparison. Through WC 2015 that statement was true of Vermeulen.

 You a welcome to believe your own BS

 
Haaaaaaaaaaahahahahaaaa!!! I saw this coming.

You are an open book, Chip. Completely pradictable.

Being the gentleman that I am I gave you a chance to save yourself further embarrassment, as it's become a regular feature with you these days.

The "egg laying counter ruck" lecture, the "elderly Gatland blitzing the second rate field" and more recently "Federer and his newly discovered top spin backhand".

Now we have Vermeulen chalked up as being within the top 3 best 8th men "in the game" ... or so we were told ... till you discovered you'd once again managed to fit both feet into your big mouth.

Soooo ... the expected 180 has arrived, as it always does ... and with it you've now downgraded him to a "contemporary comparison" ... and ... ummm ... how did you put it? "in the game" ... no longer applies, right?

In other words ... your opinion is based on his test career which started in 2012 and came to an abrupt end in 2015, right?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!

You are very 'pradictable' too....and yes between 2012 and 2015 he was one of the best. That's all I'm saying,in the game is not in the 'history of the game'. At first I thought that was a wind up, but sadly you are serious and wrong. How 'pradictable'. ... LMAOFY!

 From 2011 to 2014 Vermeulen was top class - after that he was injured too frequently and took a long time to recover from each injury.   After his neck injury he did preciously little in the WC and was very, very average for his club.