Warmers ....another pesky data point
According to AccuWeather.com Senior Meteorologist Joe Lundberg, "Some locations in the Northeast are challenging their coldest February on record."
There are the usual pathetic arguments that in fact the cold is due to global warming.....but even those are drying up in the face of temperatures running up to 30 degrees below normal. New favourable positioning for temperature gauges and manipulated data can't disguise the magnitude of this massive cold wave affecting the second largest land mass on the planet.
ou Al Gore is thinking - what a complete twit I made of myself!
But in my opinion trying to argue that the universe created itself from nothing is far worse. What a bunch of hatters!!
"Live steam"....Steve McQueen
This Basque couldn't even read a rain forest article without getting confused....a real granola type.
Well here is the probability distribution of temps for Chicago over 50 years. How often do we see temps 30 degrees off normal? Almost never but this fool is relying on his little Al Gore picture. Dumb and opinionated.
Climate change deniers are contrarians who challenge the evidence that human activities such as deforestation and human behaviors that result in more greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide are causing changes in our planet's climate that may prove devastating and irreversible. Contrarians pose as skeptics, refusing to accept consensus conclusions in science on the ground that there is still some uncertainty (or what it's worst, on the ground that where they live today it's very cold).
True skeptics raise specific doubts about specific claims and do not try to debunk a whole area of science by an occasional error or by the general lack of absolute certainty, which is unattainable in any area of science.
Climate change deniers are quick to find fault with climate change reports, mainly by finding errors in prediction by this or that scientist and by condemning the whole process of modeling as unreliable. The critical thinker should take in the whole body of evidence, not just part of it, and shouldn't reject the many lines of argument and evidence that have been put forth by the scientific community regarding climate change as real and partly caused by human activity. Modeling is just one of several lines of evidence and argumentation used.
A common complaint echoed in letters-to-the-editor across the land, by seemingly informed citizens who care, harps on the inadequacy of models used to predict changes in the globe's climate.
There is no other way to predict the future than by studying the past and the present. Unless, of course, you want to resort to so-called psychics with the alleged power of precognition. Any attempt in science or any other field that attempts to anticipate what will happen in the future is, by the very nature of empirical reasoning from the past to the future, inductive and must be couched in terms of probabilities. Anyone who demands deductive models and absolute certainty in predictive empirical matters is demanding what is impossible and is, by definition, scientifically illiterate.
Basque you haven't contradicted one word I have said....all you have done is quote your experts....and quote badly. One expert was a war correspondent....hahaha. You really don't have a clue do you? Well here's another bit of information to ignore. When this month is over two of the top ten coldest Febs in the last 150 years in the American heartland, will have occurred in the last two years.
"This February is on track to be the fifth-coldest on record in Chicago, according to the weather service. The coldest February in Chicago was in 1875, when the mean temperature was 14.6 degrees, according to weather service records. The average temperature so far this February is 16.9 degrees, Seeley said. (February 2014's average temperature of 17.3 degrees made it the ninth-coldest on record.)"
The top ten coldest Februaries on record in Chicago are:
- 1875
- 1936
- 1979
- 1978
- 1895
- 1901
- 1905
- 1904
- 2014
- 1885
The more the facts don't conform to their crack pot theories, the less tolerant they get.
Last fall the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which consists of hundreds of scientists operating under the auspices of the United Nations, released its fifth report in the past 25 years. This one repeated louder and clearer than ever the consensus of the world’s scientists: The planet’s surface temperature has risen by about 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit in the past 130 years, and human actions, including the burning of fossil fuels, are extremely likely to have been the dominant cause of the warming since the mid-20th century. Many people in the United States—a far greater percentage than in other countries—retain doubts about that consensus or believe that climate activists are using the threat of global warming to attack the free market and industrial society generally. Senator James Inhofe of Oklahoma, one of the most powerful Republican voices on environmental matters, has long declared global warming a hoax.
The idea that hundreds of scientists from all over the world would collaborate on such a vast hoax is laughable—scientists love to debunk one another. It’s very clear, however, that organizations funded in part by the fossil fuel industry have deliberately tried to undermine the public’s understanding of the scientific consensus by promoting a few skeptics.
The news media give abundant attention to such mavericks, naysayers, professional controversialists, and table thumpers . The media would also have you believe that science is full of shocking discoveries made by lone geniuses. Not so. The (boring) truth is that it usually advances incrementally, through the steady accretion of data and insights gathered by many people over many years. So it has been with the consensus on climate change. That’s not about to go poof with the next thermometer reading.
But industry PR, however misleading, isn’t enough to explain why only 40 percent of Americans, according to the most recent poll from the Pew Research Center, accept that human activity is the dominant cause of global warming.
The “science communication problem,” as it’s blandly called by the scientists who study it, has yielded abundant new research into how people decide what to believe—and why they so often don’t accept the scientific consensus. It’s not that they can’t grasp it, according to Dan Kahan of Yale University. In one study he asked 1,540 Americans, a representative sample, to rate the threat of climate change on a scale of zero to ten. Then he correlated that with the subjects’ science literacy. He found that higher literacy was associated with stronger views—at both ends of the spectrum. Science literacy promoted polarization on climate, not consensus. According to Kahan, that’s because people tend to use scientific knowledge to reinforce beliefs that have already been shaped by their worldview.
Americans fall into two basic camps, Kahan says. Those with a more “egalitarian” and “communitarian” mind-set are generally suspicious of industry and apt to think it’s up to something dangerous that calls for government regulation; they’re likely to see the risks of climate change. In contrast, people with a “hierarchical” and “individualistic” mind-set respect leaders of industry and don’t like government interfering in their affairs; they’re apt to reject warnings about climate change, because they know what accepting them could lead to—some kind of tax or regulation to limit emissions.
In the U.S., climate change somehow has become a litmus test that identifies you as belonging to one or the other of these two antagonistic tribes. When we argue about it, Kahan says, we’re actually arguing about who we are, what our crowd is. We’re thinking, People like us believe this. People like that do not believe this. For a hierarchical individualist, Kahan says, it’s not irrational to reject established climate science: Accepting it wouldn’t change the world, but it might get him thrown out of his tribe.
“Take a barber in a rural town in South Carolina,” Kahan has written. “Is it a good idea for him to implore his customers to sign a petition urging Congress to take action on climate change? No. If he does, he will find himself out of a job, just as his former congressman, Bob Inglis, did when he himself proposed such action.”
Science appeals to our rational brain, but our beliefs are motivated largely by emotion, and the biggest motivation is remaining tight with our peers. “We’re all in high school. We’ve never left high school,” says Marcia McNutt. “People still have a need to fit in, and that need to fit in is so strong that local values and local opinions are always trumping science. And they will continue to trump science, especially when there is no clear downside to ignoring science.”
Meanwhile the Internet makes it easier than ever for climate skeptics and doubters of all kinds to find their own information and experts. Gone are the days when a small number of powerful institutions—elite universities, encyclopedias, major news organizations, even National Geographic—served as gatekeepers of scientific information. The Internet has democratized information, which is a good thing. But along with cable TV, it has made it possible to live in a “filter bubble” that lets in only the information with which you already agree.
How to penetrate the bubble? How to convert climate skeptics? Throwing more facts at them doesn’t help. Liz Neeley, who helps train scientists to be better communicators at an organization called Compass, says that people need to hear from believers they can trust, who share their fundamental values. She has personal experience with this. Her father is a climate change skeptic and gets most of his information on the issue from conservative media. In exasperation she finally confronted him: “Do you believe them or me?” She told him she believes the scientists who research climate change and knows many of them personally. “If you think I’m wrong,” she said, “then you’re telling me that you don’t trust me.” Her father’s stance on the issue softened. But it wasn’t the facts that did it.
If you’re a rationalist, there’s something a little dispiriting about all this. In Kahan’s descriptions of how we decide what to believe, what we decide sometimes sounds almost incidental. Those of us in the science-communication business are as tribal as anyone else, he told me. We believe in scientific ideas not because we have truly evaluated all the evidence but because we feel an affinity for the scientific community. When I mentioned to Kahan that I fully accept evolution, he said, “Believing in evolution is just a description about you. It’s not an account of how you reason.”
Maybe—except that evolution actually happened. Biology is incomprehensible without it. There aren’t really two sides to all these issues. Climate change is happening. Vaccines really do save lives. Being right does matter—and the science tribe has a long track record of getting things right in the end. Modern society is built on things it got right.
Doubting science also has consequences. The people who believe vaccines cause autism—often well educated and affluent, by the way—are undermining “herd immunity” to such diseases as whooping cough and measles. The anti-vaccine movement has been going strong since the prestigious British medical journal the Lancet published a study in 1998 linking a common vaccine to autism. The journal later retracted the study, which was thoroughly discredited. But the notion of a vaccine-autism connection has been endorsed by celebrities and reinforced through the usual Internet filters. (Anti-vaccine activist and actress Jenny McCarthy famously said on the Oprah Winfrey Show, “The University of Google is where I got my degree from.”)
In the climate debate the consequences of doubt are likely global and enduring. In the U.S., climate change skeptics have achieved their fundamental goal of halting legislative action to combat global warming. They haven’t had to win the debate on the merits; they’ve merely had to fog the room enough to keep laws governing greenhouse gas emissions from being enacted.
Some environmental activists want scientists to emerge from their ivory towers and get more involved in the policy battles. Any scientist going that route needs to do so carefully, says Liz Neeley. “That line between science communication and advocacy is very hard to step back from,” she says. In the debate over climate change the central allegation of the skeptics is that the science saying it’s real and a serious threat is politically tinged, driven by environmental activism and not hard data. That’s not true, and it slanders honest scientists. But it becomes more likely to be seen as plausible if scientists go beyond their professional expertise and begin advocating specific policies.
It’s their very detachment, what you might call the cold-bloodedness of science, that makes science the killer app. It’s the way science tells us the truth rather than what we’d like the truth to be. Scientists can be as dogmatic as anyone else—but their dogma is always wilting in the hot glare of new research. In science it’s not a sin to change your mind when the evidence demands it. For some people, the tribe is more important than the truth; for the best scientists, the truth is more important than the tribe.
Scientific thinking has to be taught, and sometimes it’s not taught well, McNutt says. Students come away thinking of science as a collection of facts, not a method. Shtulman’s research has shown that even many college students don’t really understand what evidence is. The scientific method doesn’t come naturally—but if you think about it, neither does democracy. For most of human history neither existed. We went around killing each other to get on a throne, praying to a rain god, and for better and much worse, doing things pretty much as our ancestors did.
Now we have incredibly rapid change, and it’s scary sometimes. It’s not all progress. Our science has made us the dominant organisms, with all due respect to ants and blue-green algae, and we’re changing the whole planet. Of course we’re right to ask questions about some of the things science and technology allow us to do. “Everybody should be questioning,” says McNutt. “That’s a hallmark of a scientist. But then they should use the scientific method, or trust people using the scientific method, to decide which way they fall on those questions.” We need to get a lot better at finding answers, because it’s certain the questions won’t be getting any simpler.
Climate change logic according to Mozart - Australia has the third warmest year on record in 2014, not proof of climate change, Chicago has a chilly February, climate change is a hoax, may as well disband the intergovernmental panel on climate change right now....
There was also complete concensus around the role of fat in heart disease and the advisabilty of eating carbs. Turns out that was dead wrong. You don't need a conspiracy when all the grants are only handed out for proving climate change. So far we know:
1) The temperature has supposedly increased by 1.2 degrees C over 115 years.
2) Part of that is undoubtedly because the Sun was more intense at the end of the 20th century. Two scientists in a peer reviewed article for a respected Climate Journal estimated about 40% of the 1.2 degrees can be attributed to the sun effect.
3) All of the climate models predicted much higher temps by now.
4) The rain forests are not a CO2 source as predicted, but are showing dramatic growth and are in fact a major CO2 sink.
5) The antarctic ice extent is at record levels
6) Temps haven't increased at all for at least 15 years.
You may find that compelling proof of man made warming, I don't.
I suppose National Geographic are in on the hoax too.
- you love to argue and would take any ridiculous position just to be contrary (some would say this is the behaviour of a "stirrier";
- you can be convincing regardless of how ridiculous the position you take; for you the more ridiculous the better
- the company you keep on this "anti-warmer" argument. Our good friend Beeno is your main supporter. Which gives you a serious credibility problem.
Sorry ol' mate we are on to you
Looks like NASAs in on the scam, the left wing grant blagging crack pots....
2014 was the warmest year on record, with global temperatures 0.68C (1.24F) above the long-term average, US government scientists have said.
The results mean that 14 of the 15 warmest years on record have occurred since the turn of the century.
The analysis was published on Friday by Nasa and Noaa researchers.
Last month, the World Meteorological Organization released provisional figures that predicted the past 12 months were set to be record breakers.
The long-term global average temperature is calculated from data collected between 1951 and 1980.
"This is the latest in a series of warm years, in a series of warm decades," said Gavin Schmidt, director of Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.
"While the ranking of individual years can be affected by chaotic weather patterns, the long-term trends are attributable to drivers of climate change that right now are dominated by human emissions of greenhouse gases," he added.
Nasa and the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (Noaa) maintain two of the three global datasets of global temperatures. The UK's Met Office maintains the third.
Data from all three are used by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and formed the basis of its provisional figures in December.
Talking to journalists, Dr Schmidt said the results from the two sets of data showed "a lot of warmth in the oceans".
"It shows very clearly that it has been the warmest year on record in the oceans but it wasn't quite the warmest year in the land records but combined it did give us the warmest year," he explained.
Hot water
During a presentation of the two agencies' reports, Thomas Karl, director of Noaa's National Climatic Data Center, said there was a "considerable amount of area where we saw the record highest temperature observed, such as many portions of Europe and every ocean had parts that were [the warmest on record]".
Data "very clearly" shows warming in the world's oceans, say the scientistsAustralia was another nation to set record-breaking average temperatures.
But Dr Karl added that not all parts of the globe recorded temperatures above the long-term average.
"There were actually some areas that were cooler than average, particularly across some parts of the US that were much cooler than average," he observed.
"But that was overwhelmed by the far greater proportion of land and ocean areas that was much warmer than average or record temperatures.
"If you put it all together then it comes out as the warmest year on record."
Records stretch back to the late 19th Century when scientists began using scientific instruments to collect temperature data.
Today, as well as in-situ instruments recording information on the Earth's surface, satellites closely monitor temperatures across the planet.
During its review of extreme weather during 2014, the WMO highlighted a number of record-breaking events:
- In September, parts of the Balkans received more than double the average monthly rainfall and parts of Turkey were hit by four times the average.
- The town of Guelmin in Morocco was swamped by more than a year's rain in just four days.
- Western Japan saw the heaviest August rain since records began.
- Parts of the western US endured persistent drought, as did parts of China and Central and South America.
- Tropical storms, on the other hand, totalled 72 which is less than the average of 89 judged by 1981-2010 figures. The North Atlantic, western North Pacific and northern Indian Ocean were among regions seeing slightly below-average cyclone activity.
Responding to the reports' findings, Bob Ward, policy and communications director at the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change at the London School of Economics, said:
"The new global temperature record announced today completely exposes the myth that global warming has stopped.
"There is mounting evidence all around the world that the Earth is warming and the climate is changing in response to rising levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere."
A small but vocal number of people maintain that the observed temperature anomalies are not the result of greenhouse gas emissions from human activities warming the planet.
It is also a view that is held by a number of politicians, making them reluctant to introduce regulations or legislation aimed at cutting emissions.
He added: "No politician can afford to ignore this overwhelming scientific evidence or claim that global warming is a hoax.
"Climate change is happening, and as the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, national scientific academies and scientific organisations across the world have all concluded [that] human activities, particularly burning of fossil fuels and deforestation, are primarily responsible."
Emma Pinchbeck, head of climate and energy policy at WWF-UK, said there were reasons to be optimistic that the international community would act to curb emissions.
"There is still time to cut emissions and keep the rise in global temperature under 2C (3.6F)," she said.
"This is the year for politicians in the UK and abroad to show leadership and to deliver the global agreements and national policy we need needed to avoid the worst impacts of climate change."
The UN climate summit in Paris at the end of the year has become the focus for campaigners and policymakers alike.
It is being billed as the time when nations will come together to agree on a global roadmap to reduce emissions from human activities and prevent dangerous climate change.
However, many commentators refer to the 2009 talks in Copenhagen that promised so much but, in the end, delivered so little.
If all you can do is google global warming and reproduce a bunch of old material, it's not going to be much use is it. Why aren't they talking about the complete absence of Atlantic hurricanes. And if we have had 14 of the 15 warmest years on record, why is there a concensus global warming has stalled?
These are miniscule increments as is obvious from a rise of 1.2 degrees C in a 115 years, not all of which is due to man made activity. After all the only thing that warms the planet is the sun and the sun is hotter than it was 115 years ago....google the charts.
And yes NASA is deeply committed to global warming, it's a big part of a dwindling budget.
Unless you have something original to say let's stop. You are perfectly at liberty to believe what they tell you.
Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10639 RE: Warmers ....another pesky data point
February 23, 2015, 07:41:12
There was also complete concensus around the role of fat in heart disease and the advisabilty of eating carbs. Turns out that was dead wrong. You don't need a conspiracy when all the grants are only handed out for proving climate change. So far we know:
1) The temperature has supposedly increased by 1.2 degrees C over 115 years.
2) Part of that is undoubtedly because the Sun was more intense at the end of the 20th century. Two scientists in a peer reviewed article for a respected Climate Journal estimated about 40% of the 1.2 degrees can be attributed to the sun effect.
3) All of the climate models predicted much higher temps by now.
4) The rain forests are not a CO2 source as predicted, but are showing dramatic growth and are in fact a major CO2 sink.
5) The antarctic ice extent is at record levels
6) Temps haven't increased at all for at least 15 years.
You may find that compelling proof of man made warming, I don't.
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Appart from the raving about the fat that he always bring (Mr. Been likes it a lot also), here's an article wrote in 2012, refuting the main points the deniers use to utilize (which coincide almost perfectly with Moz's arguments).
Climate Deniers’ Arguments and Scientists’ Rebuttals
Despite the overwhelming evidence there are many people who remain skeptical. One reason is that they have been fed lies, distortions, and misstatements by the global warming denialists who want to cloud or confuse the issue. The forces with vested interests in denying global climate change (the energy companies, and the “free-market” advocates) followed the strategy of tobacco companies: create a smokescreen of confusion and prevent the public from recognizing scientific consensus. As the famous memo from the tobacco lobbyists said “Doubt is our product.” The denialists generated an anti-science movement entirely out of thin air and PR.
Let’s examine some of these claims (and Mozart's 6 points) in detail:
1. “It’s just another warming episode, like the Mediaeval Warm Period, or the Holocene Climatic Optimum” or the end of the Little Ice Age.” Untrue.
(according to moz, "temperature has supposedly increased by 1.2 degrees C over 115 years", he also likes a lot to mention the medieval warm period and Greenland)
There were numerous small fluctuations of warming and cooling over the last 10,000 years of the Holocene. But in the case of the Mediaeval Warm Period (about 950–1250 A.D.), the temperatures increased by only 1°C, much less than we have seen in the current episode of global warming.
This episode was also only a local warming in the North Atlantic and northern Europe. Global temperatures over this interval did not warm at all, and actually cooled by more than 1°C.
Likewise, the warmest period of the last 10,000 years was the Holocene Climatic Optimum (5000–9000 B.C.) when warmer and wetter conditions in Eurasia caused the rise of the first great civilizations in Egypt, Mesopotamia, the Indus Valley, and China. This was largely a Northern Hemisphere-Eurasian phenomenon, with 2–3°C warming in the Arctic and northern Europe. But there was almost no warming in the tropics, and cooling or no change in the Southern Hemisphere.
The Holocene Climatic Optimum, in fact, is predicted by the Milankovitch cycles, since at that time the axial tilt of the earth was 24°, its steepest value, meaning the Northern Hemisphere got more solar radiation than normal—but the Southern Hemisphere less, so the two balanced. By contrast, not only is the warming observed in the last 200 years much greater than during these previous episodes, but it is also global and bipolar, so it is not a purely local effect.
2. “It’s just the sun, or cosmic rays, or volcanic activity or methane.” Nope, sorry.
The amount of heat that the sun provides has been decreasing since 1960-70, just the opposite of the denialists’ claims. There is no evidence (see Figure 3 below) of increase in cosmic radiation during the past century.
Figure 3. Plot of solar energy input to the earth versus temperature of the last century. The two tend to track each other until the last 30 years, at which time the earth warmed dramatically even as solar input went down.
(... volcanic,... methane)
4. “Carbon dioxide is good for plants, so the world will be better off.” Who do they think they’re kidding?
The people who promote this idea clearly don’t know much global geochemistry. The Competitive Enterprise Institute (funded by oil and coal companies and conservative foundations) has run a series of shockingly stupid ads concluding with the tag line “Carbon dioxide: they call it pollution, we call it life.” Anyone who knows the basic science of earth’s atmosphere can spot the deceptions in this ad.
Sure, plants take in carbon dioxide that animals exhale, as they have for millions of years. But the whole point of the global warming evidence (as shown from ice cores) is that the delicate natural balance of carbon dioxide has been thrown out of whack by our production of too much of it, way in excess of what plants or the oceans can handle.
As a consequence, the oceans are warming and absorbing excess carbon dioxide making them more acidic. Already we are seeing a shocking decline in coral reefs (“bleaching”) and extinctions in many marine ecosystems that can’t handle too much of a good thing. Meanwhile, humans are busy cutting down huge areas of temperate and tropical forests, which not only means there are fewer plants to absorb the gas, but the slash and burn practices are releasing more carbon dioxide than plants can keep up with.
Here moz's statement is such a raving that needs a comment, he says:
"The rain forests are not a CO2 source as predicted, but are showing dramatic growth..."
Nobody has never predicted that rain forests were a CO2 source at least in the last 100 years.
The rain forests are showing a dramatic growth? really?
The indonesian rain forest has been reduced in a 80%, the african rain forest loses every year a 7% of its area and the south american loses around 6.500 km2, the area of Delaware, every year. So could you tell me which rain forest is showing "dramatic growth"?
And, please, don't embarrass yourself again bringing studies that you don't even understand.
5. "We had record snows in the winters of 2009–2010, and in 2010–2011.” So what?
This is nothing more than the difference between weather (short-term seasonal changes) and climate (the long-term average of weather over decades and centuries and longer). Our local weather tells us nothing about another continent, or the global average; it is only a local effect, determined by short-term atmospheric and oceanographic conditions. In fact, warmer global temperatures mean more moisture in the atmosphere, which increases the intensity of normal winter snowstorms.
This is moz's favourite argument. Every time he reads that it's been cooler in a determinated place (preferentially where he lives, Chicago or the eat cost) or that it's been snowing more than usual, he opens a new thread and comes crying that the global warming is a hoax because where he lives it's very cold today.
6. “The climate records since 1995 (or 1998) show cooling.” That’s a deliberate deception.
People who throw this argument out are cherry-picking the data. Over the short term, there was a slight cooling trend from 1998–2000, because 1998 was a record-breaking El Niño year, so the next few years look cooler by comparison. But since 2002, the overall long-term trend of warming is unequivocal. This statement is a clear-cut case of using out-of-context data in an attempt to deny reality.
All of the 16 hottest years ever recorded on a global scale have occurred in the last 20 years. They are (in order of hottest first): 2010, 2009, 1998, 2005, 2003, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2001, 1997, 2008, 1995, 1999, 1990, and 2000. In other words, every year since 2000 has been in the Top Ten hottest years list, and the rest of the list includes 1995, 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000. Only 1996 failed to make the list (because of the short-term cooling mentioned already).
The above was written in 2012 but the trend continues, 2014 has been the hotest ever.
The only point of moz not included is the 3rd one about the models (an unforgivable omission given it's one of the most used here by moz and Mr. Been)
3. "All the climate models are wrong".
Here's an article in the Wall Street Journal from 2 "scientists" in moz's line of reasoning.
And here are 2 answers to this lunatics:
http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/2014/02/20/mcnider-and-christy-defend-inertia/
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2014/feb/21/nazis-climate-contrarian-credibility-gap
Look at your graph....the graph is comprised of 11 year averages. And it stops at 2000. In fact temps have stalled since 1995 almost exactly when solar activity dropped off it's peak. But solar output is still well above the level it was in 1900.....so unless the sun isn't what is warming the planet, part of the 1.2 degree temp rise HAS to be because of sun activity. Two respected climate scientists put the sun effect at about 40% of the rise.
And then there is this:
"Commuters make their way on a frigidly cold day in New York on February 20, 2015. The temperature in Central Park Friday morning was 2 degrees Fahrenheit (-16.6C). The previous record for this date was 7 degrees Fahrenheit (-13.8C), set in 1950. AFP PHOTO/JEWEL SAMAD (Photo credit should read JEWEL SAMAD/AFP/Getty Images)"
The record was smashed in NY by 5 degrees . That's massive and it's occurring all over the country East of the Rockies. It's not one data point, its hundreds adding to the hundreds last winter.
If we are warming significantly, given the thin tailed probability distribution above, we should rarely see new all time lows. And I dare say we should never see all time lows by 5 degrees.
Warmers are in trouble
This might sound incredibly simplistic of me, but can't they just take the average world temperature for a year and compare it with the previous year's average? It will either be up, down or the same, and then voila! Question answered! If the world is getting hot at the rate they say it is, then the world average should be getting hotter every year. How is that complicated?
"In fact temps have stalled since 1995"
oh, yeah? and how do you explain the graph posted above by poi-e or this one
or this one:
or what ever graph and dates of Temperature of the last 20 years?
(@bluebok, this are all "world temperature" graphs where you can compare one year's with the previous or with whatever you want)
"All of the 16 hottest years ever recorded on a global scale have occurred in the last 20 years. They are (in order of hottest first): 2010, 2009, 1998, 2005, 2003, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2001, 1997, 2008, 1995, 1999, 1990, and 2000."
And 2014 being the hotest ever.
But you still continue with your raving, "temps have stalled since 1995"
For the rest of your answer, please, read again points 5 and 6 (let see if you can understand them in a second reading)
Temperature isn't even real temperature...it's restated temperature. Apparently the old data has to be "normalized".....and of course that means it has to be reduced to make the temp increases more dramatic.
The fact is there is plenty of room for manipulation.
You can't manipulate a 5 degree drop in the record low in NY though ....it's an embarrassment for the warmers.
Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10645 RE: Warmers ....another pesky data point
February 23, 2015, 16:40:25
Temperature isn't even real temperature...it's restated temperature. Apparently the old data has to be "normalized".....and of course that means it has to be reduced to make the temp increases more dramatic.
The fact is there is plenty of room for manipulation.
You can't manipulate a 5 degree drop in the record low in NY though ....it's an embarrassment for the warmers.
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sorry but the only one embarrassing himself here is you yourself.
"Temperature isn't even real temperature...it's restated temperature. Apparently the old data has to be "normalized".
WTF are you talking about?
You are always bringing "local weather" episodes and they mean NOTHING. I don't care if there's a drop in 5 or 25 degrees in NYC, that means nothing.
You cannot refute the above graphs and dates of GLOBAL temperature saying that in NYC (or whatever other place) it's been colder than usual. It's not so difficult to understand
You seem to think you're on the cutting edge of the climate change because you put you're own spin on a few charts sourced from the internet....it might surprise you but much smarter people than you are proving climate change as real, they are in the overwhelming majority, I'd rather reference their research or the commentary on their research, just because you don't like the message doesn't mean it's not relevant in the discussion.
Dear me, we keep producing various 120 year graphs which show a huge hockey stick when we are only talking about 1.2 degrees centigrade. And Basque says theere is no Hiatus in temps. But this is what www.climate.gov....the US goverment's official site on global warming says:
The “pause” in global warming observed since 2000 followed a period of rapid acceleration in the late 20th century. Starting in the mid-1970s, global temperatures rose 0.5 °C over a period of 25 years. Since the turn of the century, however, the change in Earth’s global mean surface temperature has been close to zero. Yet despite the halt in acceleration, each of the last three decades has been successively warmer at the Earth’s surface than any preceding decade since 1850.
And t hese guys are raving warmers....enjoy your crow!
The acceleration has been reduced but you can never deduce from it that "In fact temps have stalled since 1995". Never.
As you can never deduce from it that the global warming has stopped. You are cherry-picking again, as always. You pick the only data that suits to your "theory" and get rid of the rest. In the same page of the federal agency NOAA (what you call "raving warmers") you can find that:
"In 2014, the combined land and ocean surface temperature was 1.24°F (0.69°C) above the 20th century average, making the year the warmest since records began in 1880. The ocean alone was record warm, while the land alone was fourth warmest. Five months set new records for warmth: May, June, August, September, and December. October tied for record warmest.
Nineteen of the twenty warmest years on record have occurred in the past 20 years. Except for 1998, the 10 warmest years on record have occurred since 2002.
Annual temperatures since 1880 compared to the twentieth-century average. The ten warmest years on record (darkest red) have occurred in the most recent decades. Graph by NOAA Climate.gov, based on data from the National Climatic Data Center."
The graph shows how the acceleration has been reduced but the global warming continues.
But this is all that you have against the global warming theory? that its acceleration has been reduced?
All your points have been refuted,..... but you still continue the argumantation hanging on to an insignificant point,...... the reduction of the acceleration of the global warming,...... trying to debunk a whole theory with this insignificant point,...........enough is enough
There are plenty of things to worry about, this Is not one of them no matter what you granola types think.
Actually no....the data point I gave was for NY city which was 5 degrees colder than ever on Feb 23. And if you don't understand that is significant you don't understand probability distributions. Perhaps something simpler. Here we have CO2 data from Mona Kea.
You will note several things. Firstly CO2 rose at least half as much between 1850 and 1900 as it rose between 1900 and 1950, despite the vastly greater increase in industrial activity.
Secondly the temperature increase on Basque's chart is no greater for 1910 to 1940 than it is for 1980 to 2010, despite CO2 spiking in the period from 1980.. Showing two things... firstly there has been a natural CO2 increase over this period along with an industrial one. And secondly bigger increases in CO2 don't lead to proportionately bigger increases in temp.
In fact CO2 has continued to rise steeply since 2000 while temps have stayed flat. Warming pundits are scrambling to find the missing heat.
And of course it's all a storm in a 1.2 degree tea cup. Be unafraid.
Citing the temperature in a single location as evidence against global warming is a pretty clear demonstration you don't understand the basic premise of GLOBAL (not New York) warming, and no matter how much you desperately want to believe that temps are staying flat there's charts from credible agencies on this thread that suggest you're either ignoring the data or you can't interpret it. But thanks for posting the Keeling Curve, I'd suggest it's a nice endorsement of the 'warmers' position.
The models predict that as the world consumes ever more fossil fuel, greenhouse gas concentrations will continue to rise, and Earth’s average surface temperature will rise with them. Based on a range of plausible emission scenarios, average surface temperatures could rise between 2°C and 6°C by the end of the 21st century.
If you believe we should be unafraid, what I'm your opinion will the human experience when the earth continues on its warming trend? In other words why should we be unafraid?
Y2K was another hoax.
Will read other comments later. Off to SARS who are asking me to pay in additional tax!!!
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