What is it about SA Youngsters?

We in many ways admire the youngsters showing a lot in sport on international level.   We seem to forget that they are barely out of school and are now in the hard world out there making their mark in sport.

Yet in many ways they are still boys and that sometimes show.   When Chad le Clos beat Michael Phelps in the Olympics in the 200 meter butterfly he was crying on the podium when receiving his gold medal.   Last Saturday it was another 20 year-old Goosen that cries with tears streaming down his  cheeks when the national anthem was song.

It may be that they are crying because their dreams have been realized after the many hours of hard work they dedicated to their sport activities - but I think the emotion they showed is actually another reason why we should admire them.   It shows that they are not superbeings - but really humans and nice youngsters that would be the role models that will remain humble and dedicated throughout their lives. 

In NZ it is uncool to show that kind of emotion - we usually call men or boys who are sopping tears as 'sooks' or "weakness'....But I suppose that is the culture you have in South Africa. In NZ its about being staunch and as I said tears are seen as I stated.

We have a saying called kia kaha which means "be strong in the face of adversity" you will hear many kiwis use this term. But throughout all this humilty and respect are still principles that we teach our sporstmen and women.

A very warm welcome to the board worldchumps. As for tears etc I will leave the bull supporters the task of getting you in touch with your feminine side!   I lik e th t saying Kia Kaha and expect it will be used widely after Saturday's game!

In nz I am sure many modern things are uncool!  I am surprised how many kiwis have the internet!

Anyhow enjoy the board and never take matters too seriously.

It appears ever since we undertook to educate kiwis on matters pertaining to rugby we are being over run! I ask all knowledgeable saffars to plaese step up to the plate and enlighten these kiwis who are hungry for rugby knowlege a nd perspective.

ragtad, carpet muncher and  jallopy you can of course relax!

Thanks

Heya WorldChamps, you NZ'ers are so utterly manly!! I wish I could be more like you! What a poephol (South African word meaning: All people have a part deep inside them that will speak out when faced with adversity. Bravery is often assosiated with this word)

Thanks for the not so pleasant welcome. I do have a nochalance to tell it how it is even if that may cause a few nerves to be ruffled. However, please do not try anddenegrate the word"kia kaha" as it does have significance in our culture. I ask that you not use it as a reference for your blashempy or being ignorant in its use - please!

Oh and please the only thing you South Africans eduated us on matters pertaining to rugby was "Never look back cause they might be gaining". The problem with being at the very top is that there is only one place to go and that is down.

The other issue with being the very best is that you are targeted more by opposition teams whatever tactics that maybe, critisized more for tactics that seem illegal, everyone wants to beat you simply to knock you off that perch and finally everyone thinks that your arrogant for being successfull.

Funny old world this is but one things for sure the All Blacks have been the best for a good reason and its pretty simple - "We play the best rugby".

I also want to touch on something important and in a way it helped NZ to win the 2011 RWC - forget all the bullshit that goes on here about cheating refs or set ups thats the biggest crock of crap ever, if anything NZ has had the hardluck stories to tell. Anyway the 2003 English winning team coached by Clive Woodward done something that none of the other tier one teams done and that was to bring consistent coaching and selection processes and bringing a professional coaching squad into the modern era. Woodward and England were lambasted for showing something different but NZ were smart enough to pick up on how he was able to mould that team into a champion unit even though he failed on his first attempt.

I gather that if Meyer fails to win the RWC in 2015 South Africa in all its guise will pass him over for someone else such is the expectation for success in your country is? I do like the fact that the SpringBoks are showing some exciting flair not seen since the 1995 Bok team. Its time for South Africa to wake up and be the giant they go on about all the time. Trust me its lonely at the top!

WC,

I see you have had your first engagement with brotherbeens he will keep you on your toes with much a do about nothing so take him with a grain of salt.

I like your take on the Eng and yes I think Woodward did bring something new to world rugby. What was difficult to swallow was the point that they had beaten the Wallabies, Boks and NZ at home and obviously went on to win the 2003 RWC. They were a good team  that played ugly ugly rugby. They had a strong core of players that they uilt their team around namely, Vickery, Johnson, Back, Wilkinson, Tindall, Robinson whom were all number 1 in there spotat their time of winning the cup.

SA would do wise to take on this lesson but I doubt HM will go any further than 2015??? 

World Champs?? Maybe change that to most rigged WC in history. How do you expect to get a warm welcome when one of your first posts is a dig at SA culture then you ask us to respect your culture in the form of "Kia Kaha" which probably means, "In sheep we find love!"

Maybe our boys are just passionate about rugby and playing for their country unlike most your boys who arrive on a ship and get chucked into rugby because they bigger and faster than the kiwi's. The AB's should try mixing a bit of Samoan, Tongan and Fijian anthem in there and we will probably see some tears and passion!

Your best performing lock of the ITM cup is Daniel Adongo for Counties Manukau. A Kenyan born player who was taught all he knows in SA. Kiwi's just cant teach that hard stuff. Willie Lose' reckons its a matter of time before he turns out in a Bok jumper but I reckon the AB's will snap him up as soon as possible so he cant turn out for us to terrorise your wee pack any further. Just like Greg Rawlinson back in the day. AB's capped him but didnt really want him. They just feared the Boks having him. Daniel and Greg both played their club rugby in Durban for Collegians before moving on professionally. Get your kiwi selectors out of there! Surely there has to be a few kiwi's around that can cut the mustard in the pack but then again, when you want "big, hard" men, you know where to find them ;-)

Lets not get into a debate about who is softer shall we. Dunedin put paid to that theory and this weekend will further reinstate what we all already know.

The haka is seen by many as an outdated barbaric ritual rather than a show of strength. It especially took criticism from the world all over when they introduced a new Haka that had throat slitting threats and taunts as part of it.  I do seem to Recall Richie Mccaw crying when he lost the last Worldcup.  Are you saying that he is a sook, and not worthy of Kia Kaha? If crying from representing your country for the 1st time is not "kia kaha", and just being a weak sook then we shall see what type of beating our forwards give you lot. With our backline starting to gel, if our forwards get the same momentum for most of the game in Dunedin it is going to be a hard day at the office.

World Champs

I want to apologize for posring of this thread - it really led to some discussion that was never intended - mamely the issue of cultural differences between people.   That is not acceptable at all and I am sorry a more or less harmless issue got distorted.

When it comes to cultural issues history and descend does play a role in the reaction of people to issues.   It is traditional for the British people to keep a "stiff upper lip"  - that is never to show any emotion on issues.   Most New Zealanders  are descended from the British had a massive influence on the people of New Zealand     Rhe reference to sheep is totally out of order.   Only the uncivilized would realise that through the centuries sheep farming was the traditional New Zealand source of livelihood for mosy of the inhabitants - so lets accept that ignorance by some contributed to the written rubbish..

On the other hand the French often shows emotion by crying.  Incidentally there is a very strong - but oftenunrecofnized  French influence on the people of SA.   That was brought about by the French Huguenots that settled in SA in the early days of colonization.   People are not always aware of it - but in some instances it was carried on for centuries up to the present era..   

Take the following example is such an issue.   I grew up on a farm that was first settled on in 1720 and the buildings on that farm dates back to that century.   On the farm throughout the years we always had chicken as the main meat dish on Sundays.   The question is why and the answer not so obvious.   It really dates back to the policy of King Henri IV of France - leader of the French Huguenots, namely that "every Frenchmen must have a chicken in the pot every Sunday".    

It is that type of environment that has an impact on conduct of people.    It does happen that South African men sometimes cry in public - probably due to their background and culture.- it does not take away anything from their manlyness.    Take for  instance the case of Roger Federer.  Who have not seen him crying in public - even though he is no doubt the best tennis player ever in the history of that sport?    It is not generally known - but Federer'a mother is an Afrikaans lady - her name is Linette and prior to marriage her surname was Muller.   Federer has a house in Knysna and often spend time there o especially in the short tennis holiday season in December - January or when he is out of playing through injury.

In any event Chad le Clos is really of much more recent French extraction - his father is a French Mauritian that moved to SA in the 1970's.      His names says if all - it is Chad Bertrand Guy - that sounds 100% French to me.

We know that culture determines the conduct of people - and what upsets me is that some members are using cultural background of people to insult them.   Sorry it happened in this case also.    But remember this - iit is better to forgive the ignorant - because they do not know what they are doing. 

Now back to rugby - you are indeed 100% correct about the issue of modern coaching techniques about the coaching of teams.    The POMS in a tour in SA just after Woodward took over lost by massive margins to the Springboks - he did succeed in building up a winning team.   He was not alone in that - White did it in 2007 and Henry did it in 2011.   

You wrote about it being lonely at the top.   That indeed is a fact insofar as Rugby WC winners is concerned.   However, there is one tendency noticeable in all teams that won the WC.   All teams keep most of the members members of the winning team in their team for the next WC - that is way beyond their "sell by" date   England did it in 2007 - South Africa did it in 2011 - and the signs are that New Zraland intends to do it in 2015.   It  would be the biggest mistake New Zealand can ever make and it virtually guarantee a loss of the WC in 2015.  Incidentally I am not a person that would find excuses about refereeing and that type of thing to excuse the SA loss against Australia in the 2011 WC - it is all bullshit in fact.   I put it strongly - the real reason was that the team were far too old to even compete and the older individuals should have been replaced in the national team by 2009 already. 

I wrote a number of threads on this issue - and still maintain it.   Modern coaching is an essential - but don;t keep players in the team past their sell by dates.   In a recent posting I pointed out that the average age of the present All Black forwards is 32 - In 3 years time it would be 35.   Can you imagine a team with a 35 year old forward pack winning anything?   Forget even about the New Zealand greats like McCaw and Carter - get rid of them before they become an embarrassment.     They will only destroy their good image by staying on and start performing less effectively.    

Clevermike, why are you apologising to him for? He is the one that referred to SA culture as cry babies. Dont try be a crowd pleaser to these okes. Us South African's are far too friendly whilst these muppets take any chance they can to have a go at us.

This site used to be so good and everyone spoke rugby. I had good conversations with you guys and liked reading posts from Beeno, Clevermike and Saffex as all have different views but these days it has just turned to nasty, digs at each other between kiwi's and South African's. Not the spirit this is meant. When all this was starting out, I tried to post fair and plead with the kiwi guys to keep it respectful but I have just lost the fun factor in debating with these half wits and therefore lose interest in talking rugby because its a matter of time before a kiwi logs on and ruins the posts with their personal attacks on SA rugby. If I wanted to cause trouble and talk smack, I would register on a kiwi site. We want to be able to share our views on the team we support without reading rude and insulting posts.

I dont suppose I am the only one feeling this way as more and more good bloggers leave as these kiwi trouble makers have poisoned it. Not all are bad though.

It is good having banter between different counties, and that makes blogging fun. The rivalry between the Allblacks and boks is great, even though the All Blacks have had the better of us over the last 20 years or so.

However it can get frustrating when people from other countries  get insulting on a nationalistic basis. This does not just apply to blogs, but living in another country etc

Being criticised based on nationality, can causes a response which can often be an likewise insult. You insult my nationality, I will insult yours etc etc etc.

Then the majority of decent people from both nationalities get insulted by the insults, which is the worst aspect. The good banter gets pulled down by the minority like that other character that got thrown of this site a few weeks ago for swearing etc etc. 

Boklogic you silly little yarpy, if you have issues with Kiwis then New Zealand is obviously not the place for you so why don't you be a good little yarpy and go back to South Africa . Anytime you want a ride to the airport just let us know.... btw looking forward to kicking some yarpy butt on the weekend....

brycy

Let me kick some butt here.   What is a "yarpy"?    You must be the only idiot that kbows what it means - since there is no such word in teh English langauage,    If it is meant to be an insult - the only person insulted is yourself - because it displays rank stupidity on your part.

Now about kicking butt on Saturday.   Let me ask you one question.   Did you watch the Re-Union program this week?   I gained the impression that the panelists would not emphatically declare that the All Blacks would win on Sarurday.   That leaves me with the deduction that they in fact believe the All Blacks would lose the game.   I think they deal with facts - not rubbishly phrases like you posted above.

My advice to you is - keep very quiet about the issue.   If the All Blacks do win, it would likely be as a result of mistakes, poor play ot lack of finishing off by the Springboks.   Games can be won as a result of defciencies in execution by the Springboks - but the likelihood is that  there would not be another Dunedin gift by the Springboks to the All Blacks - so the chances of a loss by the All Blacks is very real.

Ha ha not yet Brycy. Im not queit done taking your jobs and money. When I am and the time is right, I shall give you a call for a lift to seek warmer weather. After all, this country is the size of a stepping stone so might as well do just that.

I dont suppose you will be the person that fetches me though. Wouldn't mind being in arms length of you mate! That is just a dream though because a man with the mouth you have can only live in a dream world and feel 10 ft tall and bullet proof from behind the keyboard. Im sure mommy tells you every night how big and strong you are.

Boklogic - wow I love your patriotism and sincerely your loyalty to your beloved SpringBoks and your cultural heritage your post is interesting as there appears to be a fair bit of hatred and fustration in your messages for what ever reason? Maybe its because I said something that you totally disagreed with? Or that you took offence to my take on Clevermikes interpretation of passion? Or was it the fact that you are in our country becausse you dont want to be here?

But if you have taken offence to me saying that crying is seen as weakness or being a sook in NZ then your either deluded, confused or a sad excuse for a South African supporter? Get over yourself you self righteous fool or as BRYC said go home! As it appears you dont want to be here?

A very good friend of mine is a Brit and he told me the other day at a meeting where there was around 70% british in the meeting and most of them complained about being here because it wasnt like home or because they struggled to undersatnd the multicultural aspect that resides within our country. He said every single one of them failed the test because they left Britian and wanted to bring it with them or change it so that it fit their personal needs. If you dont like Kiwis or despise our country and what it represents then "GO HOME" and moan from South Africa because I am sure you will not be so potty mouth face to face to kiwis in how you hide your sorry soul on here?

Passion is definately one thing that the Springboks always have but that dont win games! Your ignorant jibe on the pacific Islanders in our team and any discussions around it has been done to death for many years and it is obviously plain to see that your time in NZ has been spent with your head up your arse instead of trying to get out and find out about the nation you now reside in - Show some respect instead of sounding like a sour ignorant fool. Why dont you have a look at the Wallaby team over the last 15 years - If you have a look at the NRL there is 35% palyers of Maori and Pacific Island heritage so they integratefully between both nations. Maybe you look at your own country and see if the Boks are or pure blood?

As for Daniel Adongo - simple answer is no you are completely and utterly wrong again. Did it ever occur to you that Greg Rawlinson didn't want to play for the SpringBoks and if he was the great player you say he was then he sure didnt carry on any further anywhere!

No lets get into the debate about who's softer - because the last time I looked the All Blacks won the game in Dunedin and the soft brain matter bewteen the Springboks ears were the reason that they lost - Being hard is not about being the man being a man is about being smart and by golly gosh we out smarted your boys again as i said in my post above when your the best those below you will find any possible way to bring you down to their level instaed oftrying to raise them selves up to the standard set by the All Blacks

Chippo - Thtas funny I didnt se any tears from Richie in 2007 but I  did see total excuses for the Boks coming 4th in 2011? In fact we still hearit today - my advice is give it up, it wont make the pain go away but it will be bearable for the next 3 years.

The haka is not an outdated barbaric ritual as you have ignorantly statedit is a challenge to a battle with other warriors it is a show of what we call "mana" which is being proud and using fear to uplift your spurits. Much in the way that your Black people in SA do their Zulu war dances. It took criticism because of ignorance not because people disliked it - I ask you we live in a world where their are inter-nation wars, henious crimes, world wars and gory movies that depict the most graphic of violence that we subdue our children to everyday and then you have the audacity to mentionn that people got offended because of a "throat slitting" action, as I said to Boklogic "get over yourself"

I will finish with this statement the All Blacks will win and not because I am being arrogant because supporting your own team is not arrogance. They will win because they play better rugby than the SpringBoks and because we know how to win the hard games where the Boks havent managed to win the tight games. There is no fantastic plan or super duper tactics that will be unleashed upon the Boks it will simply be the same plan on how we have beaten you time and time before -

Clevermike,

You give me faitheven though I think some of our thinking processes around the All Blacks are a slight bit deluded lmao.

I also apologize if I came across a bit offensive as it was not my intent however I will not sit back also when Boklogic and Chippo show ignorance and Boks reference to "sheep" is but a testimony to the lack of intelligence in this guys head. I will not answer his silly posts again as he is out to simply submit vile and his anger is so visual in his words and posts that no sense will ever come out of his posts.

Cultural differences have lead to war and so it does on the rugby field also with many mis-understandings coming from things like what the haka means or what pride and passion mean for various nations. Kiwis were just not bought up to cry in the field of battle it as I said was a sign of weakness and the interpretation of being a "sook" is more a teerm relatable to our school yard bantering rather than a culture so apologies that I may have over emphasised that point.  But thankyou for your insightfullness around cultural differences it certainly has educated my ignorance!

I also came from a farming background and we went in to the local town to play our rugby and we grew up watching players like Graham Mourie and then Buck Shelford who were our heroes and the Boks were public enemy number one. They were also the most feared and respected team that the Kiwis never got to play until 1992. I also remember the 1981 Bok tour and how it divided our country beacuse of what the Boks represented.

However, every single kiwi couldnt wait to see this fearsome and powerful team play our All Blacks and what a series it was. To me this respect for the Boks hasn't gone away and it is but for some stupid people whom do write some seriously rediculous posts that we get dis harmony in this forum that I have seen in a short space of time. 

 Anyway I find reference to sheep as more hilarious rather than offensive. As they say "small things appease small minds"

 The All Blacks are making moves internally with many players that are starting to be integrated and I actually can not understand where you percieve that NZ are going to fall into the same trap as what the Boks and Poms did? Sam Cane, Aaron Cruden, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Julian Savea, Beauden Barret,  Charlie Faumauina, Dane Coles, Aaron Smith, Tawera Kerr Barlow, Andre Taylor, Hika Elliot thats 13 players that I know over the last couple of years alone that have been introduced to the All Black environment let alone various other fringe players that are also knocking at the door.

Now I ask you has South Africa managed to do the same and have that depth of youth coming through or are we still going to have the majority of this team in 2015.

Only the foolish will think that and to be honest I see these following players to be gone within the next year or two:

Andrew Hore - Dane Coles to replace

Tony Woodcock - Ben Franks/Owen Franks

Kevin Mealamu - Hika Elliot

Ma a Nonu - Richard Kahui but dependent on the return of SBW

Conrad Smith - Richard Kahui/Tamati Ellison

It does though appear that Richie MaCaw may continue through if his enthusiasm for the game continues as for Dan Carter I am unsure whether he will still be in one piece by 2015 but we wont know till then I suppose. I am unsure that they will embarras themselves like what John Smit did as I know the Kiwi management is a bit sharper than your old PDV

 Ay listen world chump, I don't wanna read your essays. Don't come here and act self righteous. U are a handful of posts old. Take a read back to why this forum has become like this. Take a look at your fellow country men's posts.

if u hate South Africans, leave the website. Last time I checked it was called sarugby not nz rugby.

not so nice when people attack you and your country personally hey. School your countrymen on how to behave and let's agree to respect each other, our cultures and lets keep this about the rugby.

World Champs

Thanks for a nice post.   I have always looked carefully at the youngsters coming through in New Zealand Rugby, whenever people mention new ypumg players from New Zealand.   In view of the major  impact of Carter on backline play I specifically looked during Super 15 games at his future replacement - namely Cruden or Barrett.   Cruden showed some good touches - but he disappointed me in others.   He can no doubt develop furtherm but from what I have seen thus far - he is not  in any way as good as Carter is.  Barrett seems to be a cleverer player than Cruden and he is very speedy.   He can develop - but has quite a way to go. 

I always felt that the All Blacks do not have the real talented Lock forwards they need and Retallick became one player I am very intrested in.   Also to my mind a player with potential - but not on par for instance with Etzebeth - who as a 20 year-old is even younger than Retallick.   I was impressed by Cane as well - but the other players on the list mentioned by you - the jury is out on them - since they actually need further development before they can really be assessed.

Insofar as the Springboks are concerned - the average age of players in the team is in fact 25 - a whopping 5 years on average younger than the present All Blacks.  In fact there are only 2 players older than 30 in the squad at present and they are De Villiers and Liebenberg - there are 2 players 29 years of age (Habana is one of them) and 6 players aged 28.   On th other side - there are 2 twenty year olds in the team as well (Etzebeth and Goosen).   

There is a huge number of players knocking on the door for future selection - some of them under 21 years of age.   Signs of them became evident in the Under 20 WC as well.   The main players from the Under 20 team that would qualify for higher selection - has already played on Super 15 level or on CC level.   Amongst the youngsters  are some real stars - one of the players to be mentioned is Jordaan at center.  You may remember him from the try he scored in the play-offs against the Reds and the break he made in the final.   Real top class.   Others you must watch out for in future include Howard, JP Du Plessis, Small-Smith, Esterhuizen, Rhule and Pollard amongst the backs - and Steph Du Toit, Liebenberg, Kitshoff and Malherbe amongst the forwards.   Of those Kitsshof, Du Toit and Malherbe has already played on Super 15 level and played very well even against New Zealand teams..

I believe that the average age of players in the Springbok team will even come down if the likes of De Villiers, Liebenberg, Jannie Du Plessis, Bekker and Kirchner is replaced - likely to happen next year.   Habana is also 29 - but I cannot foresee that he would be replaced before the next WC.   Virtually all the rest of the players by the time of the next WV will be 30 or below in age. 

.  

You are such a bunch of little girls...all this hurting of feelings and buddy buddy stuff is sickening. Its called banter people!  We tease each other and then laugh about it. I am too lazy to go back and read who said it, but who cares if one of the "saffas" said the NZ'ers have sexy-time with sheep? They know it is not true, we know it is not true, and all of us....well most of us anyway, know it is just a joke. Not sure when a bunch of 9 year old girls started chatting here. If an NZ'er says something you don't like, prove him wrong and mock him back. And yes, all this can be done without vulgar language....

Childish in the extreme!!! 

 @World Champs-

Checkout all of your cry baby "sooks" below after losing the Worldcup- 

"Also note that Graham Henry suggested match fixing after the loss in his auto-biography". 

 http://www.stuff.co.nz/4078/McCaw-admits-ABs-were-rattled-font-size-1-font-color-cc0000-b-videos-b-font-font-color-a

A shell-shocked Richie McCaw says the All Blacks allowed themselves to become "rattled" by France which ultimately proved his team's undoing during their 20-18 quarter-final loss at the World Cup in France.
Your say on All Blacks' loss
Blog: Playing the blame game

Tears welled in the All Black skipper's eyes as he tried to explain the reasons why his side, which has dominated test rugby for the last three years, were unable to deliver on the biggest stage of all.

"We had dreams of what we would do today but we got beaten by a better team," he said.

"The pain in the guys' eyes and their body language sums it up.

"Some of them have just pr

Bwahahaha @ sharkbok!!! You see, even Bulls and Sharks can get along....as long as it is at the expense of a NZ'er.

Ps. Sharkbok, you do of course realise that World C is not going to respond to your post...cos it proves that them Island dwellers are just as "Sooky" as us....if not more so. Or maybe I am wrong, and he'll show us his kia kaha, and stand up to your insults! LOL

Richie does like a good cry it seems. Welcome Worldchump, I hope this wasn't the best you can do.....I for one enjoy you NZ chappies on our site.

Things are heating up as the game gets closer!!!

However I am fully with Moz here. The Kiwis are a great bunch and very welcome here. 

Please dont use their ignorance against them. Bwahahhahahahaha  

Relax guys!!! Lots of PMT around.

So the abs are too smart to lose. Very interesting.

Things are heating up as the game gets closer!!!

However I am fully with Moz here. The Kiwis are a great bunch and very welcome here. 

Please dont use their ignorance against them. Bwahahhahahahaha  

Relax guys!!! Lots of PMT around.

So the abs are too smart to lose. Very interesting.

boklogic! You say you're sick of kiwis on this site. Yes it is titled sarugby, but you forgot the all important bit that comes before it. ... WWW. Last time I checked it meant World Wide Web. Add to this, you live (gratuitously) in NZ correct? Where the "logic" in that?

As for saturday, I think we will see a kicking game from the boks. Trying to beat the all blacks at their own game would be a little silly e.g. PUMAS! This is almost too close to call. Going to be immense, the game of the last two years (more excited about this than wc final!). The pinnacle of world rugby. AB's by 5   

THis thread started out promising and then went completely off topic halfway through. Short and sweet, don't see crying as weakness, wouldn't be a rugby player would he if he was weak. Have to say enjoy the back and forwards banter and POV's and at least doesn't have the crap on Planet Rugby forum which deginerates into personal, unrelated attacks way off tangent. But Clevermike , I know the AB's are older...NOW...but one thing about AB selectors, they are very quick to scout, select and nurture new talent in all positions at an early stage with view to AB honours, and selection is cut throat, underperform at provincial, Super Rugby and your gone, almost regardless of who you are McCaw and Carter the only exceptions. I do agree that lock is where we do not have deep resources that SA does (SA do have 5.5 times more registered players) but who we do have perform at least as well as any nation in test matches so AB's don't lose much.

Thanks to all who have commented on here (except for boklogic) it is certainly true Beeno1 that when the crunch games get closer emotions and chest beating get harder and louder. One things for sure if we listen to the Boklogic about this site and all the kiwis left then I am afraid this forum would be completely boring.

All you would have is self gratuity, in-breed cant lose ignorance at least us oaks from the long white smokes can put you dokeys on your tippy toes hehe. I agree the BlueBok it is all a bit of fun and games and I think we all become little bitches at times but hey guys we all start to get ready for the rumble and our balls start to show once the realtime game is upon us!!!!

Chippo lol you must of had a vitrolic mindset to undertake your post just to prove your point hehe. It was a but funny to say the least and I was expecting the standard sheep pic to finish it off lol. All I can say my fellow black brother is I hope you feel better now as I concede you have won! But gladly those years have now passed and a distant memory I need not mention what has happened since as you know that there has been many many years that this team of Black shirts can celebrate I would put them up but there are too many!

CleverMike - I will stand strong with my understanding of youth coming through in New Zealand and TBH unless you have a real tap into our rugby environment or you are just making assumptions through what you see on TV and what you read then I sincerely cant agree with you. Three and a half years is a long time to make any assumptons and much of what you say can change just as much for the SpringBoks as it is for NZ. Dont get too caught up on youth as being the majic formula for success as there are other things combined that make a winning team. Too many statistics can get your head a bit wired up and after a while you start believing them too much.

As you have stated the Boks also have lots of youth coming through but I dont know enough about your rugby other than the Boks to comment and if you say it is very strong and is going to be the advantage over New Zealand then I cannot argue. But I do find it a bit odd that there are references about the lack of our youth not proving themselves when al we have seen is Etzebeth/Goosen showing a lot of promise. You have Taute and Lambie that I know of whom are in the Bok squad now but they will take a bit of time to show any value as to this point there is nothing that I have seen that is any better than what the All Black youth is showing?

There are various locks in NZ that are showing some promise - Jared Hoeata who if he wasnt injured may have had the wood over Romano. Dominic Bird from the Crusaders is looking very promising also. Luke and Brodie will be 4 years wiser and much better players by 2015 and besides Etzebeth who I really rate Bekker is hot and cold and appears to be verfy injury prone? So besides Eben your locking stocks show know more promise than NZ's.

wfunston, I see what you trying to do there. You trying to sound clever but dont. I am not sick of kiwi's. I like kiwi's in general and have some good kiwi mates here. What I am sick of is the few kiwi's on this site that use it as a means of personal attack on South African's or to degrade our rugby. When that stops and we talk about the game with respect, all are appreciated on here.

As for your www comment. SA rugby is just a site on the world wide web. Just like any other site. The purpose however, is to keep abreast with SA rugby for their supporters. I never said you were not allowed on the site, I simply implied that if you dont have anything good to say or hate the springboks and South Africans so much, then why dont you leave the site. Surely there is NZ rugby sites where you can all bask in your "glory!"

Mate, dont question where I choose to make a life for myself. When it comes to making a living and a safe future for my family one day, SA is not the place. Everyone knows about the problems SA face. My family decided to leave SA after we had a tragedy in the family where we lost a member as the direct result of violent crime. In the greater scheme of things, rugby means very little and no one would choose to live in a country purely because they are passionate about their rugby team. If SA had signs of resurrecting itself to what it once was, then yes, I would go back home. Hey, I am not the only one who has left SA. There are million others out there in the same boat.

Moz - based upon some very stupid and childish posts on this forum I dont have to do much to be better hehe - but cheers for your advice hopefully some of your fellow country men read your post and hank for the welcome my friend

World Champs

List of locks virtually endless.   Lets keep to those that already have played Super Rugby - Du Toit, Roux and Elstadt.   Elstadt is 20 and Du Toit 19.    Both have already shown hige potential.    I have seen enough of them to rate all three higher than Retallick.   Watch out for them next year in Super Rugby.

This is certainly a post that has gone from being reasonable to sonething that probably needs an ED intervention?

Appears to be lots of adrenalin being pumped out with the big showdown due very soon!!!