What is wrong with the Springbok team

Lets first start with the forwards - and look at the hooker.   Withoout Bismarck we are really down to two options - Strauss and Liebenberg.    Both have positive and negative aspects to their game.   Both have at times being inaccurate in line-out feed -  and I would say that Fourie should be brought into the picture.   He at least is faster than the other two and also a good fetcher.  

The props - bad news - very bad news.   The established pair is the Beast and Jannie Du Plessis.   However, both a liabilities and that is a fact.   I think it is time to replace those two and I would rather like to see younger and more effective players being brought in.   I know Oosthuizen is still out - but we should rather look at players like WP Nel, Kitshoff and Malherbe - than continue with the present problematic two.

Locks - am happy with Etzebeth - but not with the rest.   I am not sure what is wrong with Du Toit - but he. Roux or Willemse are certainly better than the present lot.   They can and must try the younger players - the older and more expereinced ones are problematic.  In any event starting with them now would lead to building up players for the next WC - the present Chamnpionship is a lost cause.

The loosies are also problematic.  Some people say we need a fetcher - but that is not really the answer at all.   Problem is our loosies - other than Coetzee -  are too slow to get to the breakdown point and cannot compete for the ball.   The main problem is Alberts - who should play at lock and not as a loosie.   I would move Coetzee to 7 and bring in Brussow at 6.   However, I am afraid that Brussow is not really up to standard insofar as other aspects of loose forward play is concerned - but he should be tried out and see  whether he produces anything in that position.   I do not really expect anything much from that experiment - but the situation is desperate and we need to try different options.  

There are a number of options at 8 - here we have a situation where we have Spies - who for 75 minutes in every match he plays in produces zero - Vermelen - who is a very strong ball carrier and very sound in defence - but also on the slow side.   Both are problematic and I would also blood younger players in that position.   I think the ideal long term prospect for that position would be either Du Toit or Wian.  The other immediate option is Daniel - he has more ball sense than the others.

Scrummie - immediate change is not necessary - but for one case yesterday - Pienaar was good enough to play in that position.    I would retain him and start looking at players like Pretorius and Groom to back him up.

Flyhalf - Morne is a major problem - he is clueless about option-taking and is not the flyhalf that would make the backline function properly.   There is no way we can expect anything from the Springbok backline when he is in that position.   The only real player that could spark some life into the backline is Goosen and he should be in the team.   Back up flyhalfs are few and far between.  Jantjies is grossly inadequate and was poor in most CC matches he played in - very poor.   Lambie is an option and I would always consider him as a back up flyhalf ahead of Steyn - who really is predictable and a poor link in the backline.

Centers - We really are in a hopeless situation here.   Francois Steyn used to be the great hope for us - but he has showed nothing in the tests he played in this year.   Yesterday his defence was NOT up to standard and he showed nothing in attack.   I think we have serious problems in that position.   Do not like the look of De Villiers either - but I would rather move hm as a temporary measure to 12 and bring in Jordaan at 13.

Wings - Habana and Pietersen is the answer here and I hope the latter is fit for the home games in the Championships.   Otherwise Hougaard is and remain a very good player at wing.

Kirchner is to my mind a one-dimentional player and under pressure very poor.   On attack there is one certainty - the ball dies with him if he gets involved in attacking moves - clueless about passing the ball.  There are two options here and those are Taute and Lambie - even Aplon would be a huge improvement on the clueless Kirschner.

In essence I believe that for the home games in the Championship - th following team should play:-

15   -   Lambie or Taute

14  -    Pietersen - if not available Hougaard

13  -    Jordaan or Taute

12  -    De Villiers (temporary measure until younger players come through)

11  -    Habana

10  -    Goosen

  9  -    Pienaar

  8  -    Vermeulen or Daniel- Probably Liebenberg or Du Toit in future

  7  -    Coetzee

  5  -    Brussow - likely to fail, but he should get a chance

  5  -    Alberts, Du Toit or Roux

  4  -    Etzebeth

  3  -    Nel - until Oosthuizen comes back

  2  -   Strauss

  1  -    Kitshoff

The above team would most likely lose - but it is a start to build a new squad for later years and for the WC and eliminate the older players whoi are not producing anything. 

 Sorry Mike but I have to disagree with you when you stated that Frans has been below par all year, during the England test series he proved himself greatly and the last match against the English he was sorely missed as we drew with them. Kirchner played well yesterday and when you say he is clueless on attack, that is a bit unfair as he did contribute towards Habana's try, I am in no way a fan of Kirchner but you are a very unreasonable judge towards some players and when they do one thing wrong you tend to forget all the right things, yet you say you're then the first to give praise to the Boks, I fail to recall any praise from you when the Boks beat Argentine at Newlands.

Kirchner is useless on attck and dfnce!!

We have a coach who thinks Kirchner is a better flback than Lambie that is why we suck.

New coach plz!

Shezza

I did rate the players in the Argentine test and gave both Krischner and Steyn pass marks in that case.- but in the other tests they played in they really were disappointing.   My problem is that Francois Steyn lately is not the player he used to be.   I can 8underastand that his Grench contract has not been renewed - because he basically under-performed there is well.   He yesterday was briushed off a number o times when he tried to tackle and was nowhere to be seen when Goosen made that one line break - Goosen had nobody to pass to and press hoime the attack.   The inside center should be next to him to reveive the ball - he was NOT.   Steyn is at this stage a crash ball player - nothing else.    He brings nothing to attacking backline play - but aone or two attempted breaks where he is tackled and lose the ball ultimately.   Might as well be a loosie - but for his defensive skills - which is not up to standard.

I watched carefully Kirchner in the tests he played in - he has made serious mistakes with catching of high balls - when under pressure.   His one positive is that he followed up kicks of other players like happened in the try you mentioned yesterday.   The negatives are that there are still serious question marks as to his role in attacking play - he receives the ball - and  the attack dies with him since he does not pass the ball to either players or his inside.   There are also lingering doubts about his defence.

In essence - I would really like to see Francois Steyn regains his playing capacity as a link player in the backline.  I would like to see him drawing in defenders - thus creating space for outside players - and passing the ball effectively in a tackle situation   Have not seen one case thus far this year.  

Problem with both players are the fact that they do not off-load the ball effectively and as already said the ball dies with them when they get tackled.   Often enough the ball is handed over to the opposition of they are penalized for hanging onto the ball or there is an infringment by the forwards when they try to recover the balls.

I always was a great admirer of Francois Steyn - but is getting disillusioned by what I saw recently and I am not the only one saying so.

Hmmm what you've said is fair and right but I'm not going to write off Frans until after the next Super 15 season is done, due to lack of game time since not having renewed his contract with Racing, his marriage and not being able to play in the final stages of the Super 15 since he wasnt eligible to play.

 In all fairness Frans Steyn receives the ball from Morne at the same time as two players from the opposing team.

Morne is so predictable and esay to read thus the poor performance of our backs.

Get rid of Morne and you will see attacking play from our backs.....

Mike what complete nonsense regarding our props, they stand firm at scrum time and Beast has always been good in general play. Cilliers is a joke as a prop sub. Kitshoff, Malherbe and Coenie are our best back-up options.

Strauss is a handy hooker, but miles behind Bismark, man we miss this guy. Liebenberg is a complete insult as a bench hooker. Fourie, Visagie and Burden are all better options.

Jeandre Kruger is no test lock, he is just not physical enough. Eben is a class act and Bekker should never have been discarded, that was a pathetic call by Meyer. Our lock back-ups should be Flip, Steph du Toit, Quinn Roux, Bresler and Willemse

Not sure where you drag that nonsense from regarding Brussouw not having what it takes, hell not so long ago he was the best 6 in the game. He has to be brought back into the equation. Meyer got it totally wrong here. Coetzee is the only real find amongst the test loosies. Daniel should never have been discarded as a bench option. Alberts brings no rugby nous to the role, all crash bash and for a number of tests now has gone awol. Vermeulen had a steady debut, but for his hands - I am not convinced about him. The likes of CJ Stander, Kolisi, Arno Botha, Josh Strauss and Elstadt need to be brought into the equation.

The worst move made by Meyer was moving Hougaard to wing. Pienaar brought no clout to the equation at all. He kicked well, but we dont want a kicking 9. He is good enough to stay in the mix, but Hougaard is a must at 9, he is completely wasted on the wing. v/Zyl looks a good one for the future.

I hope we never see Morne at 10 ever again. No more needs to be said other than the fact that he is a major contributor to how poor the Boks have been under Meyer. Goosen is a must, with Jantjies as a back-up.

Your continued take on Frans Steyn is complete bullshit. Frans was our best back by some distance, always broke the advantage line and was solid as always in defence. Jean is a non entity at 13, his best days are long gone and he offers nothing on attack - his defence yesterday was poor. He is an old man, move on. Our centre options are plenty - Frans, JP, JJ, Taute, Jordaan and Serfontein. Just go check the player ratings on this site Jean vs Frans. Mike you need to start watching the same game as the rest of us!!

JP is sorely missed in the side. Habana might have a little left in him but I am not convinced. We have options in Mvovo, JJ and Jordaan.

Lambie is a must at 15, I like Kirchner and he has been good, but Lambie has more clout. Taute is an option at 15, but better suited to 13

Meyer needs to forget the old and go bold - get rid of the old timers and discard the never been in Morne

saffex, i disagree that Hougard shld start at scrumhf until he shows his form from RWC, but otherwise, you are the 1st poster ive read on here who knows waht hes talking about when it comes to rugby selections.

Saffex

We are in broad agreement on most issues - but for three positions.  That of Hougaard as a scrummie - Francois Steyn and Brussow.   Hougaard is not a scrummie - but a wing.   I think his passing game is way too slow and his kicking game bad.   He has scope as a wing - not a scrummie.  

Francois Steyn has a huge reputation - but I still think he is not living up to it.   Unless he improves drastically - and I mean drastically - he should be really considered as past tense.   However, playing with Goosen and not the dead-in-the-wwod Morne Staeyn, may have positive results for Francois as well.   I am not for immediate replacement - but if he plays like he did - he is not an automatic future selection.   Still wonder why - if he is so good - the French contract was not renewed?  

About Brussow - I will give him a chance - as I indicated - but I believe he is not the best around and I do not believe he will past the test.   Prefer Louw to him in any event.  

i agree but i feel brussouw offers more with a broader skillset than louw. louw is not as great on the deck as brussouw. that beins said having louw in the team goes a long way to improving the current farce we have

BEENO WILL SAY LETS PICK A 120 KG flanker to run around all day and compete with the likes of hooper and mccheat. the last time i checked the game is played on grass not a weight scale beeno